Morecambe 0 Port Vale 3 Live iFollow thread

[Gone_Shrimping]

As mentioned McGurk the best outfield player by a country mile.

Barry Roche was in brilliant form otherwise it could have been a real thrashing.

Have we got a midfield ? The back 4 pass it around between themselves and then when the opposition press them it gets hoofed 80 yards to the opposition keeper or centre halves.

[KenH]

Have we got a midfield?

Given Jim has so much choice at the moment with relatively few injuries/suspensions, it was a strange team selection again last night, also bearing in mind we're playing 2 games most weeks at the moment as he's not rotating properly to allow time to rest and is flogging some to death whilst others can barely get off the bench.

Really need to give Osborne 90 minutes on Saturday. What does Jim think he's achieving by bringing him on for the last 5 minutes? And what's the deal with Rose? Is Jim playing him for half a game just because he's captain? Rose is out of form at the moment and need to be left on the bench - swapping captains mid match isn't helpful for consistency. Do the players have respect for Rose as captain? When he's come on, all he seems to do is complain at everyone around him, even for mistakes he makes himself - gets himself quite het up at times. Perhaps, again, the wrong person has been chosen for captain. Not sure Kenyon has the respect to be captain either. But do we have anyone else who could be captain - it's an important position yet for the past few years, we don't seem to have had a genuine born leader on the pitch.

I think yesterday was yet another example of Jim not knowing his best players, not knowing their best positions, not knowing the best formation, etc. We've seen time and time again over the past few years that the lads perform best when the team selects itself due to injuries/suspensions.

[Posh]

Seems that the entire club has switched off now they know we're financially secure for a couple of years due to Abdul bankrolling it. The hospitality has been virtually empty every game this season - why is no-one getting bums on seats in there - it's supposed to be the only profitable bit of the club (if you ever believed that)! Jim and Ken have ridiculously been rewarded (for no obvious reason) with a 2 year contract extension. Sorry to say, but the club was far better last February when the wages weren't being paid and we were is clear trouble and everyone, players, staff, board etc were working towards something. It seems everyone has switched off and are just coasting now we're "safe" - all waiting for some sugar daddy to come in and pay a few million to buy it (meanwhile for those who don't live in cloud cuckoo land, we're staring relegation and bankruptcy in the face as the sugar daddy won't be coming when crowds are under 1,000!). Time for the board/management to wake up and start pushing things again.

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This

We seem rudderless. Those who own the club don’t come to games, those who used to own the club, and whose name is on the stand, is still Chairman and doesn’t come to a majority of games, while those who don’t own the club but are directors (two of them?) are trying to make a go of it but without the tools and plenty of other distractions. Who is Jim accountable to? A rugby watching accountant in Durham? A Qatari on national service? A Chairman who he used to report to?

[KenH]

We seem rudderless. Those who own the club don’t come to games, those who used to own the club, and whose name is on the stand, is still Chairman and doesn’t come to a majority of games, while those who don’t own the club but are directors (two of them?) are trying to make a go of it but without the tools and plenty of other distractions. Who is Jim accountable to? A rugby watching accountant in Durham? A Qatari on national service? A Chairman who he used to report to?

Plan A: Plod along until sugar daddy turns up with £4.5m (asking price as per Burnard).

Plan B: Oh!

All the while watching the crowds fall, tumbleweed in the First Choice suite, no stadium sponsor, no home stand sponsor, maybe avoid relegation if we're lucky ( and it will be down to luck!)

[red shrimp]

Jim's taking us back to non league wilderness, it's a shame to see the club in such a mess.

I can't get over him getting a new contract, the club is a joke and a laughing stock. The crowds are going to get less and less. We will end up averaging less than 1000 fans.

We have a team capable of mid table, but with Jim in charge with his stupid tactics and substitutions ,we've had it.

Be playing Lancaster at home on new year's day in no time.

[Phil Anderer]

I've missed the last two home games (thankfully, from what I've read on here), and I want to know what's happened to the team that played against Newport and Luton. It's not that long ago. I know I've talked about it on another thread, but is it, at least in part, that the playing style of these poor teams has a severe negative effect on our own game. If so, why the f@#k aren't we addressing that effectively in training. I add the word effectively as Jim & Ken may be trying to address it, but it clearly isn't effective.

I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater yet. I've seen performances that show we can compete with this team, but at present they're too few and far between.

[red shrimp]

Have we got a midfield ? The back 4 pass it around between themselves and then when the opposition press them it gets hoofed 80 yards to the opposition keeper or centre halves.[/quote]


This is nothing new is it? It's been like this for years. pass it around the defence, back to barry, barry hoofs it, we lose it... then repeat.

Soul destroying to watch. sadly under Jim, it won't change. he has the worst record in the football league, he has no ideas what his best team is, he doesn't have a plan A or a plan B. His 'tactical' subs are horrendous.

People say that teams are interested in taking Jim .... Please, please take him. do us a favour.

I am looking forward to seeing people come on here and try to defend jim & his tactics. we have an already beaten attitude before we play every home game. so so poor , the fans deserve better.

[Seasider9601]

For varying personal reasons (which I've mentioned on here, and also those who know, know) I've not attended a match this season as of yet.

Sadly, very sadly, (and I never thought I'd say this, ever) - but I'm not missing it at all really.

I take it I'm not missing much at The Globe then.....

[BerlinWaller]

Seems that the entire club has switched off now they know we're financially secure for a couple of years due to Abdul bankrolling it. The hospitality has been virtually empty every game this season - why is no-one getting bums on seats in there - it's supposed to be the only profitable bit of the club (if you ever believed that)! Jim and Ken have ridiculously been rewarded (for no obvious reason) with a 2 year contract extension. Sorry to say, but the club was far better last February when the wages weren't being paid and we were is clear trouble and everyone, players, staff, board etc were working towards something. It seems everyone has switched off and are just coasting now we're "safe" - all waiting for some sugar daddy to come in and pay a few million to buy it (meanwhile for those who don't live in cloud cuckoo land, we're staring relegation and bankruptcy in the face as the sugar daddy won't be coming when crowds are under 1,000!). Time for the board/management to wake up and start pushing things again.

Great post from a man clearly a passionate Shrimps fan. I hope the same few deluded fans on Facebook take heed of what you are saying and do not dismiss you with their usual short sighted unbiased views. You are talking for the majority now Ken.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Seems that the entire club has switched off now they know we're financially secure for a couple of years due to Abdul bankrolling it. The hospitality has been virtually empty every game this season - why is no-one getting bums on seats in there - it's supposed to be the only profitable bit of the club (if you ever believed that)! Jim and Ken have ridiculously been rewarded (for no obvious reason) with a 2 year contract extension. Sorry to say, but the club was far better last February when the wages weren't being paid and we were is clear trouble and everyone, players, staff, board etc were working towards something. It seems everyone has switched off and are just coasting now we're "safe" - all waiting for some sugar daddy to come in and pay a few million to buy it (meanwhile for those who don't live in cloud cuckoo land, we're staring relegation and bankruptcy in the face as the sugar daddy won't be coming when crowds are under 1,000!). Time for the board/management to wake up and start pushing things again.

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This

We seem rudderless. Those who own the club don’t come to games, those who used to own the club, and whose name is on the stand, is still Chairman and doesn’t come to a majority of games, while those who don’t own the club but are directors (two of them?) are trying to make a go of it but without the tools and plenty of other distractions. Who is Jim accountable to? A rugby watching accountant in Durham? A Qatari on national service? A Chairman who he used to report to?

The rugby watching accountant will be concerned when he realises that a Conference club has a selling price nearer to 10% of the £4.5 million he has suggested it is on the market for.

[chipbuns]

It's weird that one week Jim shows me that he is the right man to be here, with his undenying passion for the club and I feel confident that he will drag us out of the water like he always manages to do. But then you go to a home game and you watch games like last night. Pretty absymal against a Vale side who weren't that great, I've never seen so much head tennis in 1 game in my life.

It's badly crying out for a change of tactics at home, it just doesn't work. I feel sorry for Vadaine because he's so isolated. He wins the vast majority of stuff in the air but everyone is so far away it looks like he's the one losing possession. If we're going to play it long (which is awful to watch btw) people need to start their runs close by and then break off, it happened a couple of times last night when we managed to get players running into the box with the ball at their feet. The less said about Rhys Turner, the better. He should never have got a contract. Far too lightweight, tails his run away from the ball as soon as any human/insect comes near him, he just gives up.

On the midfield I seriously don't understand how Osborne doesn't start most games, he did more in 8 minutes last night than any of them. A guy who has got 20 assists to his name from last season (yes at a lower level but he's proven he's comfortable in league 2 in games i've seen) Rose for me actually did alright when he came on, he's had a bad season but Flemo and Kenyon were far worse last night.

Can none of our full backs take long throw ins either? Thommo and Rose should be in or around the box rather than taking them, have some variety in the play, we're far too predictable.

I'll stand by the boys but last night was inexcusable, change the tactics for Saturday and have a go at them. It's really telling that our best football played at home this season has been when we have been down to 10 men, with nothing to lose.

If nothing changes, I think this is the year the inevitable will finally happen.

[paulshrimp]

I live away from Morecambe so I don't get to see that many matches which means that I look forward to seeing the Shrimps play. I went last night and left thoroughly depressed. For the first 15 minutes we looked OK, getting beyond their back four. Once we gave them the goal the whole team quickly deflated and we survived till half time. I thought that, only one down, we could give it a go second half and get something out of the game. No chance! The match was lost during half time. We never appeared in the second half and whatever was said in the two dressing rooms showed itself on the pitch.

I know Jim has a passionate love for the club and he wants to win everything but it's not happening on the pitch. The players look frightened to play which means that they never relax and produce their best. We aren't blessed with the greatest players but the ones we have got have shown that they can play some decent stuff. They need to produce it on a more regular basis. The old adage about changing a losing team doesn't seem to apply to us. The players we are putting out are not getting the results so why not give some of the youngsters a chance? Ok, they might struggle but the current team is struggling. At least, you hope the younger players but bring some life and energy to the pitch. I thought Osborne looked useful last night so why not give him a start?

I have supported the Shrimps for over fifty years and things look as bad now as now as they did in the 1980's. If we fall out of this league then I cannot see anyway of getting back and we shall have to find our level in non league football.

This is all written in sorrow rather than anger and I just hope that I am wrong and Jimbo can get us playing again, we stuff the monkey hangers and get a decent cup run. COYS

[Christies Child]

I live away from Morecambe so I don't get to see that many matches which means that I look forward to seeing the Shrimps play. I went last night and left thoroughly depressed. For the first 15 minutes we looked OK, getting beyond their back four. Once we gave them the goal the whole team quickly deflated and we survived till half time. I thought that, only one down, we could give it a go second half and get something out of the game. No chance! The match was lost during half time. We never appeared in the second half and whatever was said in the two dressing rooms showed itself on the pitch.

I know Jim has a passionate love for the club and he wants to win everything but it's not happening on the pitch. The players look frightened to play which means that they never relax and produce their best. We aren't blessed with the greatest players but the ones we have got have shown that they can play some decent stuff. They need to produce it on a more regular basis. The old adage about changing a losing team doesn't seem to apply to us. The players we are putting out are not getting the results so why not give some of the youngsters a chance? Ok, they might struggle but the current team is struggling. At least, you hope the younger players but bring some life and energy to the pitch. I thought Osborne looked useful last night so why not give him a start?

I have supported the Shrimps for over fifty years and things look as bad now as now as they did in the 1980's. If we fall out of this league then I cannot see anyway of getting back and we shall have to find our level in non league football.

This is all written in sorrow rather than anger and I just hope that I am wrong and Jimbo can get us playing again, we stuff the monkey hangers and get a decent cup run. COYS

It doesn't help when our Assistant Manager starts getting on the players backs and telling them to put more effort into their game. he was constantly having a pop at a number in particular even the only one who performed anywhere near his potential and that was Adam.

I know that if someone was constantly having a go at me I'd tell him to f*ck off under my breath.

In my opnion it has a negative effect albeit well intentioned.

It would be interesting to find out if the players themselves enjoy playing the type of game that has become the norm, that being the long ball or better known as hoof ball.

I sincerely want Jim to be a success ( it's my club that I've supported for over 60 years after all ) but how many seasons have we witnessed his type of game with very little success that has resulted in a drop in 50% of attendances during that time.

Surely that tells its own story...

[Little Shrimp]

As I'm now in Leeds so can't make it to games, most of of my info on tactics/gameplay/style comes from here which, obviously, should be taken with a pinch of salt . One thing that does seem to be a consistently repeated and agreed upon bit of feedback however is that Oliver desperately needs a partner or more support up front. From the brief bits of football I have seen this season (Cheltenham, Carlisle and Accrington) I would have to agree. The guy wins so many aerial duels and can pick stuff up on the floor well too and feed other players but so often has no support. I know we all moan about hoofball but even if we play a bit of it and it works (eg, with McGurk running off Oliver) and got us winning, would anyone really be that bothered? I don't remember many complaints when we got in the playoffs with Jevons getting 19 league goals running off Paul Mullin! Even then, with Oliver having far superior pace and technique to Mullin, we still have a very good option to play it on the ground and use him to hold and feed. There are ways to do this, 4-2-3-1 and put proven goalscoring midfielder Osbourne (can't understand why he's not playing) at No10 and task him with getting runs in off Vadaine. Three at the back (3-4-1-2/3-4-2-1), I know we often struggle with that but if we just deploy two CBs playing like a pair and Muller as a sweeper that has got to have some potential. 4-4-2 isn't really great but could work and for a bit more modern flexibility could be used in a diamond with someone sitting in the hole (Osbourne) or maybe putting Thompson there and pushing him wide to create a wonky diamond, there's a video of Johan Cruyff explaining it on YouTube somewhere! I know that's a bit of a ramble and probably a bit nerdy but the point I'm trying to make is that there are plenty of other options available that would give Oliver more support and/or allow him to be partnered by someone (McGurk) up front.

A quick word on man management, I know we often see this as Jim's strength but he looks like he's gotten it drastically wrong this week. I understand that we were a bit sub-par at the weekend and I think Jim should highlight that and talk to his players about what needs to improve but I think the manner in which he handled it was terrible! While he would be wrong to just pretend like every bit of the performance was perfect, it really feels like he went a bit far in bringing the players back down after the win and then to go and slate them like he did in the post match interview really isn't helpful. I feel like it's really killed the momentum from the win. I can imagine that it must feel frustrating and inconsistent to the players when they lose and Jim comes in and is very optimistic about there performances and then they win and get a bit of a dressing down. Compare that to Port Vale who also won for the first time in a while on Saturday but actually seemed to be carrying the momentum from that into tonight which was probably a large factor in their win. It feels like any momentum, psychologically, we had from our weekend game has just been stopped dead in the water.

[MfcChris]

and was it the Trust/ Fcom what donated £2000 to the team for performance monitors for the players to wear in training?

Train? They turn up on Turner's field about 12 and go about 1:15. Waste of time.

[Dickhead]

Why are Accrington consistently doing well and we are doing so bad whats the secret...

[Gone_Shrimping]

Why are Accrington consistently doing well and we are doing so bad whats the secret...

They probably have a similar budget to us , no training facilities , look for players in the same market and yet they get much better results than us.

Coleman tells his players to look like champions when they go away to play somewhere. I listened to Jim on the Radio pre Port Vale and I thought we were going to be playing Barcelona. If Jim says the same things to the players they must take to the field feeling very inferior.

[Shrimpy]

Why are Accrington consistently doing well and we are doing so bad whats the secret...

They have a once in a generation talent as a manager who is perfectly suited to the club. There aren't many of them around and if he suddenly upped and left they'd probably suffer hugely.

They also have more money than us with an owner who invests significant time, money and resources with them.

As I've said before many a time, you shouldn't be looking longingly at Accrington and lamenting what they have and we don't. Instead, take a closer look at Stockport, Dagenham, York, Macclesfield, Wrexham, Aldershot, Hartlepool, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Chester and Torquay and count yourself lucky you still support a Football League club.

[black morse]

Why are Accrington consistently doing well and we are doing so bad whats the secret...

They have a once in a generation talent as a manager who is perfectly suited to the club. There aren't many of them around and if he suddenly upped and left they'd probably suffer hugely.

They also have more money than us with an owner who invests significant time, money and resources with them.

As I've said before many a time, you shouldn't be looking longingly at Accrington and lamenting what they have and we don't. Instead, take a closer look at Stockport, Dagenham, York, Macclesfield, Wrexham, Aldershot, Hartlepool, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Chester and Torquay and count yourself lucky you still support a Football League club.

At the moment

I want to go back to a few who can't believe that we are the same team, more or less, that ware playing good, entertaining football before the Exeter game. If you can't remember that go back a few pages and read many peoples comments then. 'Best Team ever', 'really enjoyed that!', entertaining game' etc.etc. So
what has gone wrong?

Look a bit further back at our last few seasons and you'll find that we started really, top of the league etc......and suddenly we lost it! It's nothing new. It's happened season after season but this year we played well without winning. We don't have the cushion that we had in other seasons.

So ask again why it has happened. Different players in the team and yet it's going the same way. It can't be the players....many of them are different. So it has to be the tactics. We switch from playing good forceful football(even entertaining as well this year) to a team that loses it's belief in itself. I don't know Jim personally and everyone gives him praise as a player and leader when he was on the pitch but I can only suggest that as a manager, even when we are doing well, he suddenly gets the wobbles and loses HIS nerve reverting to the 'clem sheet' mentality and the lack of confidence in the team.

If the manager does not have confidence in the team what chance do the players have?

[Niborian_Shrimp]

Just as an example of how people can see the game differently. Some people near me were confused by the fact that Oliver stayed on and even started. They bemoaned him for his apparent attitude problem and for being caught offside all the time. Apparently he didn't contribute much.

Before anyone says anything, I did check. I wasn't in the away end.

[Phil Anderer]

Why are Accrington consistently doing well and we are doing so bad whats the secret...

They have a once in a generation talent as a manager who is perfectly suited to the club. There aren't many of them around and if he suddenly upped and left they'd probably suffer hugely.

They also have more money than us with an owner who invests significant time, money and resources with them.

As I've said before many a time, you shouldn't be looking longingly at Accrington and lamenting what they have and we don't. Instead, take a closer look at Stockport, Dagenham, York, Macclesfield, Wrexham, Aldershot, Hartlepool, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Chester and Torquay and count yourself lucky you still support a Football League club.

At the moment

I want to go back to a few who can't believe that we are the same team, more or less, that ware playing good, entertaining football before the Exeter game. If you can't remember that go back a few pages and read many peoples comments then. 'Best Team ever', 'really enjoyed that!', entertaining game' etc.etc. So
what has gone wrong?

Look a bit further back at our last few seasons and you'll find that we started really, top of the league etc......and suddenly we lost it! It's nothing new. It's happened season after season but this year we played well without winning. We don't have the cushion that we had in other seasons.

So ask again why it has happened. Different players in the team and yet it's going the same way. It can't be the players....many of them are different. So it has to be the tactics. We switch from playing good forceful football(even entertaining as well this year) to a team that loses it's belief in itself. I don't know Jim personally and everyone gives him praise as a player and leader when he was on the pitch but I can only suggest that as a manager, even when we are doing well, he suddenly gets the wobbles and loses HIS nerve reverting to the 'clean sheet' mentality and the lack of confidence in the team.

If the manager does not have confidence in the team what chance do the players have?

In respect of the clean sheet mentality, Mrs A & I ran into Baz the day after a nil-nil draw a few seasons ago. To quote Baz: 'at least we kept a clean sheet'. I know he's the keeper, but it could be indicative of that mentality.

[Westgate Wanderer]

Why are Accrington consistently doing well and we are doing so bad whats the secret...

Because they have a manager who sends his teams out fully expecting them to win, even if they were playing Barcelona! On the other hand we send our team out to keep a clean sheet and try not to lose! One manager wants to win the other doesn't want to lose!! There doesn't seem to be any plan on the field, no good corners and our free-kicks are usually sideways or backwards. Players change every season but the tactics ( ) stay the same so it can't be the players!! Thought the corner might've been turned after playing poorly but winning at Chesterfield but alas not. Fylde away for next seasons Boxing Day game anyone?

[Christies Child]

Just as an example of how people can see the game differently. Some people near me were confused by the fact that Oliver stayed on and even started. They bemoaned him for his apparent attitude problem and for being caught offside all the time. Apparently he didn't contribute much.

Before anyone says anything, I did check. I wasn't in the away end.

At the recent fans forum I asked JIm why he didn't play someone alongside Oliver to take advantage of the balls he wins in the air. His answer was that he would like Wildig to take advantage of the balls Oliver wins but he didn't convince me that he is prepared to have a permanent partner playing alongside Oliver which for me negates the positives of playing someone of Oliver's strengths and capabilities.

So it looks as though Oliver will have to accept that he's a sole striker with nobody playing off him.