PMG Leisure/Youth Facilities

[canuck]

Hi Shrimp fans,

I've slowly grown into a supporter of the Shrimps. I'm from Canada so a long ways from the action. I'm sad to see the turmoil with the ownership group and current status of the club. I hope this gets resolved soon and the club can focus on being a stable yet strong presence in the Football League.

I had a few questions regarding the club's structure and operations. I want to understand how these problems have occurred and how they may be fixed if a trust or new ownership comes in.

It appears the sporting facility, Globe Arena, and the club itself are separate entities. Is this correct? If so do we know if all three entities have debt?

In terms of attendance, the club has been averaging ~1,500 (all matches) this season. Historically, the club has never averaged over 3,000. With a stadium capacity of 6,400, can the club gain a greater season ticket and spectator base? I'd like to see the attendance average ~3,000 per game and I believe some unique marketing efforts can make this achievable for next season. Also any reason for the decline in club attendance in the recent seasons?

Globe Arena appears to be quite the stadium. The services and functions make it a great revenue generator. I'm curious who makes the bulk of the revenue when non-football events occur, the club or the stadium (if they are in fact separate entities)?

Also for the size of the club, there seems to be a lot of administrative overhead. Lots of staff for such a small club... There is no excuse for a small club to be running ~300,000 pound deficits yearly. There is clearly something wrong with the structure of the business and perhaps its entities. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar people involved with all three entities getting salaries from all of them... But I could be wrong.

If the entities all have debt, this is a major issue for a trust, it would be a tall order to refinance all the debt, ideally under one debt facility.

The Qatari that stepped down as chairman, he seemed to be involved with Lemos, what's his involvement now, and for being a 24 yr old, he must be from a wealthy connection. I wonder if he has intentions to purchase the club.

This club can be profitable, it has a great stadium, fanbase, established event centre.

[Gnasher]

When all this kicked off before Christmas, I asked if the function and football revenue streams were separate. Various people replied saying the function money was safe which implied they are separate. However, no one has been able to explain how nor provided a company name for the function side of the business. I have paid for various functions at the Globe and all my receipts are from Morecambe FC Ltd. Make of that what you will.

[KenH]

I have paid for various functions at the Globe and all my receipts are from Morecambe FC Ltd. Make of that what you will.

It means nothing at all. Very common scenario for there to be a "front" with the money split in the background. One of my clients owns a hotel that has a large cafe - he doesn't run the cafe himself, it's rented out. But all the money goes through the same credit card terminal so you get a receipt with "xxx guest house" on it when you pay by card. Behind the scenes, that money is ring-fenced (less card processing fees) and paid to the cafe proprietor. Exactly the same with hairdressers where there's a salon with several self employed hair stylists - same scenario, you get your c/c receipt headed "xyz salon", and the self employed stylists get their share of the revenue behind the scenes. Main reason is to reduce overheads, i.e. just one card machine and receptionist/cashier instead of several machines and also that customers wouldn't want to pay 2 or 3 different bills, i.e. in the hotel scenario, they don't want a bill for breakfast or room service separate to the bill for the hotel room. Doesn't mean there's anything underhand going on (but at the same time, there could be!).

[marky No.1]

I'd like to see the attendance average ~3,000 per game and I believe some unique marketing efforts can make this achievable for next season.

Globe Arena appears to be quite the stadium. The services and functions make it a great revenue generator.

There is no excuse for a small club to be running ~300,000 pound deficits yearly. There is clearly something wrong with the structure of the business and perhaps its entities.

This club can be profitable, it has a great stadium, fanbase, established event centre.

Agree with all this, (apart from only £300K).Lots of questions but not many answers.

Abdul was the joint vice chairman..

I presume at the moment we don't appear to have a Chairman or a vice chairman??

What would be your unique marketing strategy to get 3,000 average attendance for next season? - if you can do that then in my world you have a job, Sir!!

[canuck]

From the previous year financials, Morecambe FC Ltd, had ~£180,000 in freehold land and ~£7,500,000 in lease property assets. Therefore, the club is leasing the Globe Arena from someone. We don't know if that lease is long term (99 yrs) or short (<10 yrs). But based on the depreciation, it appears to be long term. That also puts into question how a much is this lease monthly.

Though negative, its also a positive in that the club could refinance by using the leasehold property has collateral towards a new loan if a trust/new owner came in.

This of course answered my question about the non-football revenue, as it would be revenue towards the club. Minus expenses like caterer etc.

[Seasider9601]

What would be your unique marketing strategy to get 3,000 average attendance for next season? - if you can do that then in my world you have a job, Sir!!

We should have got those Lancaster University students in to help us with this one....!!

As it is, they're off to Barrow In Furness now....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21914

[marky No.1]

Wonder what their conclusion was?

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/9Y8JV3K

[KenH]

That also puts into question how a much is this lease monthly.

Could be trivial. Morecambe Golf Club's land is leasehold from the council and according to their very long term lease (over 100 years), the annual payment is a golfball! The term "peppercorn" rent derives from an old custom of the rent payable being a corn of pepper! For any contract, you need consideration, so that's why sometimes the consideration is something of negligible value.

[Seasider9601]

"What type of fan would you class yourself as?

a) No interest in football
b) .... "

Eh ???? Not a "fan" at all then?!

[canuck]

I was guessing on the losses per year, the financial statement said ~£800,000 last yr and ~£400,000 previous to that. Details on the expenses are unknown though. Do you think its less?

The website says McGuigan is the chairman along with Lemos.

I would use a couple strategies, I'm from Calgary where ice hockey is everything, very much like football to UK. The pro teams use game packs, very much like season tickets (treated like season ticket holders) but for only a certain amount of the games throughout the year. The club could do 4,6,8 game packs. They wouldn't get to choose the matches (i.e. 6 games - 3 matches lower rep clubs & 3 matches higher rep clubs), this way you guarantee that you'll get people to even the lower rep matches. It brings in fans that can't afford the season tickets but want to get to some of the matches. The cost would be a little more expensive per game than season tickets but cheaper than single match tickets.

I would also drop the prices significantly for the season tickets/game packs for the early bird period. For example: PMG Family Block E - Early bird £299 and seasonal £399, I'd drop the early bird to £200. Why? This marketing strategy works wonders with ski resorts (for example Nakiska offered their adult season pass for $199, after early bird is $849, everyone buys its because if you a single pass its $50, an amazing deal). Globe Arena has a capacity of 6,400, fill it up! You don't get paid for the empty seats. If you had 1,000 season ticket holders that pay on average £300 per seat compared to 2,000 season ticket holders that pay on average £150, its the same amount however you've doubled your concession and retail revenue plus you created a better entertainment atmosphere with more fans in the stands. Fact is, teams play better when the seats aren't empty.

The sections that don't sell the best, you can add a perk with the season tickets, like a voucher for drink and hot dog for every match.

I have other ideas but those are just some that can be used to entice fans.

[canuck]

What would be your unique marketing strategy to get 3,000 average attendance for next season? - if you can do that then in my world you have a job, Sir!!

We should have got those Lancaster University students in to help us with this one....!!

As it is, they're off to Barrow In Furness now....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21914

This is how a tier 3 club from USA in the United Soccer League got some of their fans..... http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stm ... irst-year/

[SupermarketShrimp]

What would be your unique marketing strategy to get 3,000 average attendance for next season? - if you can do that then in my world you have a job, Sir!!

We should have got those Lancaster University students in to help us with this one....!!

As it is, they're off to Barrow In Furness now....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21914

I'd rather have qualified professionals to be honest. No harm in letting them do some marketing ideas mind.

[mrpotatohead]

You are putting alot of time and effort into this, ''chewing the cud'',with a small bunch, whats your real ''angle''.

[KenH]

I'd rather have qualified professionals to be honest. No harm in letting them do some marketing ideas mind.

But anything is better than nothing, qualified or not.

[canuck]

You are putting alot of time and effort into this, ''chewing the cud'',with a small bunch, whats your real ''angle''.

I like analyzing businesses plus I love football. Always wondered about owning a club. But need to find what makes it work properly. Plus I love eating shrimps.

[Shrimpy]

If you had 1,000 season ticket holders that pay on average £300 per seat compared to 2,000 season ticket holders that pay on average £150, its the same amount however you've doubled your concession and retail revenue plus you created a better entertainment atmosphere with more fans in the stands. Fact is, teams play better when the seats aren't empty.

The problem you've got with this is that if you drop the prices there is no guarantee that the extra fans attracted by the offer will make up the shortfall created by the lower prices.

The club have experimented before by dropping prices for certain fixtures to £10 (from £15 at the time I think) and seen barely any increase in the attendance.

It's not as easy as saying slash season tickets by half and then the crowds will double. I'm sure if that was a realistic option the club would have done it already!

[canuck]

If you had 1,000 season ticket holders that pay on average £300 per seat compared to 2,000 season ticket holders that pay on average £150, its the same amount however you've doubled your concession and retail revenue plus you created a better entertainment atmosphere with more fans in the stands. Fact is, teams play better when the seats aren't empty.

The problem you've got with this is that if you drop the prices there is no guarantee that the extra fans attracted by the offer will make up the shortfall created by the lower prices.

The club have experimented before by dropping prices for certain fixtures to £10 (from £15 at the time I think) and seen barely any increase in the attendance.

It's not as easy as saying slash season tickets by half and then the crowds will double. I'm sure if that was a realistic option the club would have done it already!

Completely agree. There needs to be community involvement by the club to attract people to the games. The club is an entertainment event for the town. But you're only attracting 1,500 spectators, so there is clearly an issue with the club not engaging the local communities. Maybe the value and experience isn't meeting the product expectation.

Then again I've never been to Morecambe so my opinions are only outside opinions. I'll be in UK in May so perhaps I'll come for a visit.

[shrimper]

Do that! Be good to see you here.

I stayed in Calgary for a few weeks in the mid-1980s, great city. At the time I was going out with a girl from Drumheller.

Good input, canuck, interesting to hear your thoughts.

[P/T Indie]

I would use a couple strategies, I'm from Calgary where ice hockey is everything, very much like football to UK. The pro teams use game packs, very much like season tickets (treated like season ticket holders) but for only a certain amount of the games throughout the year. The club could do 4,6,8 game packs. They wouldn't get to choose the matches (i.e. 6 games - 3 matches lower rep clubs & 3 matches higher rep clubs), this way you guarantee that you'll get people to even the lower rep matches. It brings in fans that can't afford the season tickets but want to get to some of the matches. The cost would be a little more expensive per game than season tickets but cheaper than single match tickets.


That's not a bad idea doing block of tickets however it might stop people buying a full season ticket.

[canuck]

Do that! Be good to see you here.

I stayed in Calgary for a few weeks in the mid-1980s, great city. At the time I was going out with a girl from Drumheller.

Good input, canuck, interesting to hear your thoughts.

Hope you checked out the dinosaur museum in drumheller!

[mrpotatohead]

Until we get a new owner its back to the old regime for us, and I dont remember a single instance of any ideas from supporters being taken on board.

[marky No.1]

Do that! Be good to see you here.

I stayed in Calgary for a few weeks in the mid-1980s, great city. At the time I was going out with a girl from Drumheller.

Good input, canuck, interesting to hear your thoughts.

Hope you checked out the dinosaur museum in drumheller!

That's where he found her!

[canuck]

I would use a couple strategies, I'm from Calgary where ice hockey is everything, very much like football to UK. The pro teams use game packs, very much like season tickets (treated like season ticket holders) but for only a certain amount of the games throughout the year. The club could do 4,6,8 game packs. They wouldn't get to choose the matches (i.e. 6 games - 3 matches lower rep clubs & 3 matches higher rep clubs), this way you guarantee that you'll get people to even the lower rep matches. It brings in fans that can't afford the season tickets but want to get to some of the matches. The cost would be a little more expensive per game than season tickets but cheaper than single match tickets.


That's not a bad idea doing block of tickets however it might stop people buying a full season ticket.

I've also seen them offered throughout the season as well. Like if you only offered season tickets prior to the season and game packs afterwards.

Has the club ever thrown in a jersey with the season tickets?

[canuck]

Until we get a new owner its back to the old regime for us, and I dont remember a single instance of any ideas from supporters being taken on board.

That may be the reason why attendances are low.

[Shrimpy]

Has the club ever thrown in a jersey with the season tickets?

I can remember I got a free scarf with my very first season ticket.