Carlisle 3 Morecambe 1 [Songo'o] LIVE iFollow Thread.

[Andy D]

as soon as you seen Slew in the starting as loan striker, you just knew it wasn't going to be our night.

[Caton83]

Only the bottom two have a worse goal difference than us. Needs sorting sharpish

[HALMA 1983]

as soon as you seen Slew in the starting as loan striker, you just knew it wasn't going to be our night.

Don't think Derek had any choice, this playing twice a week with everyone falling like flies is very telling,
a win is going to be very hard to come by unless the personnel return

[Bara brith]

Carlisle commentary “ Are Morecambe the worst side we’ve played this season” ? Southend were awful, but they had one good lad up front, yes Morecambe the worst side.
Embarrassing performance by the team , why oh why bring Mcalinden on with 5 mins to go , when Slew was Unbelievably bad , long hard season ahead I’m afraid, after we all expected so much

[Slanester]

“...worst team they’ve played at home, apart from Southend....” according to their commentary. Cheeky tw@ts.

I might be in the minority(?,) but based on tonight, they would have been there for the taking if we were at full strength. Doesn’t change things or get us any points, but it is keeping me focused for future games.

[Little Shrimp]

Absolutely awful tonight. Bottled the opening 15 minutes completely and then failed to impose ourselves on a Carlisle side who pretty much switched off after getting an early lead.

What has really worried me recently is how awfully we've used the ball. We just panic, even when we're not being particularly pressured, and lump it in a pretty aimless fashion. And even when we lump it long, we do it in a bad way when players aren't ready or making runs etc.

Just take a first touch and make a few sideways passes sometimes. Even if it's just to let players get ready to run onto a long ball. Show a bit of composure! We're just kicking it back to opposition at the moment.

Slew worked hard but seemed to lose it in the second half after a promising first half. Diagouraga had some great moments and gives us control in midfield, but a few daft balls/lumps. O'Sullivan's passing was poor, he needs a rest. Songo'o was awful - own goal was bad but I can get over that as it's just a nightmare moment - but so many stupid fouls given away to take the pressure off Carlisle. Thought the Diagouraga/McAlinden sub was a poor decision from DA. We were on the up and didn't really need another striker - all it did was basically lose our midfield/unbalance the team, which I felt helped give Tanner room to score the third.

POSITIVES. Mellor was excellent, gave us some real threat going forward without ever really leaving us short at the back. Price looked good when he came on. I'd be tempted to give him a shot from the start, or maybe he works best coming off the bench with a bit of shock factor?

I do shift work and have (un)fortunately had the last couple of games off to devote my full attention to some dreary performances. Will be working during Saturday's game so won't be able to watch properly - surely a good omen for a positive result?

[halfwayprawn]

Young Price comes on and showed some enthusiasm but others? How many times do we have to head the ball to nowhere instead of chesting it down and playing the ball to feet

[marky No.1]

It was like we rewound our clocks back 2 years instead of 1 hour

[Keith]

What has really worried me recently is how awfully we've used the ball. We just panic, even when we're not being particularly pressured, and lump it in a pretty aimless fashion. And even when we lump it long, we do it in a bad way when players aren't ready or making runs etc.

If we have everyone back to defend a corner, then simply lump it aimlessly forward, there's a pretty good chance that it will keep coming back.

Mansfield were bloody awful. We tried to sit deep on a 1-0 lead and they got a draw.
FGR were much better than Mansfield. We tried to sit deep on a 1-0 lead and lost 1-2
Carlisle's ex-Morecambe defender had more shots on target than all of Morecambe's players. And scored.

A few weeks ago, we looked pretty good and I genuinely thought we were a play-off quality. After tonight's roll over and give in, I'm looking down the other end to see which two sides are worse than us this season. I have to hope that when we get over the illness/injury crisis we'll get back to winning ways.

[Alan]

Absolutely awful tonight. Bottled the opening 15 minutes completely and then failed to impose ourselves on a Carlisle side who pretty much switched off after getting an early lead.

What has really worried me recently is how awfully we've used the ball. We just panic, even when we're not being particularly pressured, and lump it in a pretty aimless fashion. And even when we lump it long, we do it in a bad way when players aren't ready or making runs etc.

Just take a first touch and make a few sideways passes sometimes. Even if it's just to let players get ready to run onto a long ball. Show a bit of composure! We're just kicking it back to opposition at the moment.

Agree with most of that.

Having only seen the night matches, several of the goals against have come from a similar fault (as I see it anyway). In an attempt to thwart the attacking player, 2 (and sometimes 3) defenders converge on him, but don't totally close him down. On occasions they get in each others way, and other times the ball is played to take all of them out of the game. The first Newcastle goal was a prime example.
Have we a leader whose job is to organise, instruct and encourage on the pitch, or do they just wait for DA to bark out instructions ?

Also the touch and ball control of too many players seems often below par. Perhaps 10-15 minutes in training, instead of 2 touch, playing no passing until you have beaten a man might improve players confidence on the ball.

And a final point- when in the opposition box or just outside, please just have a shot if the opportunity arises. How many goals have we conceded to 20 yard shots and deflections ?.

[Keith]

And a final point- when in the opposition box or just outside, please just have a shot if the opportunity arises. How many goals have we conceded to 20 yard shots and deflections ?

Yup... can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket. We're really shot shy.

[marky No.1]

And a final point- when in the opposition box or just outside, please just have a shot if the opportunity arises. How many goals have we conceded to 20 yard shots and deflections ?

Yup... can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket. We're really shot shy.

Been the same for years, different manager, different owners, different captain, different players = same pholosophy

Sat/stood and watched so many times as we approach the box saying "shoot"! and so often we pass it sideways.
Tanner just went for it last night as we backed off, shot and a goal = simple

[redrobo]

And a final point- when in the opposition box or just outside, please just have a shot if the opportunity arises. How many goals have we conceded to 20 yard shots and deflections ?

Yup... can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket. We're really shot shy.

Been the same for years, different manager, different owners, different captain, different players = same pholosophy

Sat/stood and watched so many times as we approach the box saying "shoot"! and so often we pass it sideways.
Tanner just went for it last night as we backed off, shot and a goal = simple

You and 1500+ others agree....

[Slanester]

The interview with their manager, after last nights game, is interesting.

[al1]

I think it is time to give Halstead a chance in goals,Turner must be shell shocked!

[Gone_Shrimping]

I think it is time to give Halstead a chance in goals,Turner must be shell shocked!

I think he saved us from a bigger tonking last night. It's in front of him where the problems lie.

[Ego Tripping]

I think it is time to give Halstead a chance in goals,Turner must be shell shocked!

Turner was one if the few players last night who played well. Makes no sense putting in Halstead, he made loads of errors last season and nowhere near good enough.

We desperately need Stockton back, as DA’s system relies on having someone who can hold the ball up. Hence Slew playing last night. Though he did ok, especially given the hoofs up to him in the first half. I guess DA sees McAlinden as an option when we are ahead as he likes to run in behind and gives us a good out ball.

For me, after poor performances last night a few players should be looking over their shoulder when we get more bodies back. Lavelle was very poor first half, Carlos did nothing, Wildig totally ineffective unless he scores (and the way he let Tanner past was embarrassing), Diagouraga and Songo’o barely got a tackle in first half.

Much better 2nd half and we probably should have got a 2nd goal but we cannot start games like that. Tranmere got tonked last night so we need to get at them early on saturday

[RapidShrimp]

I think it is time to give Halstead a chance in goals,Turner must be shell shocked!

I don’t agree at all with this. Turner has been excellent since he came in

[RedRedWine]

I think it is time to give Halstead a chance in goals,Turner must be shell shocked!

I don’t agree at all with this. Turner has been excellent since he came in

I wouldn't go that far. Whilst I don't think you can say Turner has been directly at fault for many goals conceded (where you can definitely attribute them as goalkeeping errors), he's not pulling off many saves either.... certainly not enough for him to standout and have his performances appraised as being 'excellent'..... most shots on target seem to be going in!

I did a quick check on league games so far this season, and of the 39 shots on target to date 19 have lead to goals against. Apologies for going all NFL, but this ration of 1 shot on target = 0.49 goals is the worst in league two, ahead of Southend United (0.47) and Bolton Wanderers (0.44). Normally you could say that this statistic is skewed by the quality of chances created by the opposition..... but quite a few of the goals we are conceding are from long range efforts outside the box, which is a concern to be honest because Turner is nowhere near them (reminds me a bit of Adam Sollit).

IMO, there has not been a single game so far this season where you can point to Turner as having kept us in the game, or one where his inclusion has made a difference to the result/team performance.... perhaps those two 1v1s vs Carlisle United to spare some (more) blushes - but for a team that's been dicked 7, 5 and 4 nil already, who really cares about that? If I was Mark I'd certainly be knocking on Adams door asking for an opportunity and stating my case.

[redrobo]

Surely the blame lies fair and square at the defense in front of Turner.

How many times this and in other seasons have we failed to close down the opposition which negates the space for them to have a pop at goal from both in and outside of the box?

Take a look at recent performances it's alarming how easy it is to shoot at any distance as the amount of space an opponent is afforded is criminal.

It certainly doesn't work the other way where we are shut down resulting in that extra pass which discourages from shooting which sadly if we do happen to get one off is either wide or over the top. Very rarely is a shot on target.

Worrying times and I dread the thought of what the FA Cup will bring where our opponents will be in at us from the word go.

[Little Shrimp]

With young keepers on loan from Premier League clubs, you kind of expect them to be great flashy shot-stoppers but still developing the more 'dull' sides of their game like handling/positioning etc.

Turner is pretty much the opposite in my view. His handling has been absolutely excellent. He's had some horrible shots from range and crosses chucked to him at awkward heights and he's held onto them really well. Also been massively impressed with his 1v1 technique at times - brilliant for Alessandra's chance and I remember in the opening match how he forced Reuben Reid to shoot wide just before we scored the winner. He times coming out his net well, and doesn't let himself get committed too early so as to not give the striker and easy option to finish.

But like RRW says, there haven't been any 'show-stopping' saves or moments when you've really felt like he's bailed us out etc. Obviously in an ideal world, you never let those moments when you need to be bailed out happen, but you have your goalkeeper in your side for a reason and sometimes you do need them to help you out of a scrap.

It's very hard to say whether or not he should have stopped some of the shots that have gone in, as none of them have been howlers. He's got some really good 'bread and butter' skills, and hopefully he can grow in confidence a bit and show us some more 'impressive' stops. Wouldn't mind seeing his cross catching range to extend a little as well.

[RedRedWine]

Surely the blame lies fair and square at the defense in front of Turner.

How many times this and in other seasons have we failed to close down the opposition which negates the space for them to have a pop at goal from both in and outside of the box?

Take a look at recent performances it's alarming how easy it is to shoot at any distance as the amount of space an opponent is afforded is criminal.

It certainly doesn't work the other way where we are shut down resulting in that extra pass which discourages from shooting which sadly if we do happen to get one off is either wide or over the top. Very rarely is a shot on target.

Worrying times and I dread the thought of what the FA Cup will bring where our opponents will be in at us from the word go.

Yes - the defence obviously plays a part, but I'm not sure how you can say Turner has been 'excellent' with stats like the one I pointed out... which is the point I was making.

In terms of shots on target allowed (good chances?), we are 9th worst in the league - but I think this is skewed by who we have played (6 of the top 9 teams). I do hate all these stats coming into the game btw, which is driven by an American audience and FIFA video games IMO, but they do support my point somewhat on this occasion so I'll happily use them and let you all carry on with subjective ramblings

[redrobo]

We seem to be forgetting the reason why a club loan's out any player who is in their reserves or Development Squad. They are on loan to learn their trade in a mans game. They have a lot to learn in all areas and Turner is no exception.

He is with us because Newcastle need for him to progress on a week to week basis. Playing regularly and witnessing life outside of a Premiership club bubble.

Man Utd expressed interest in signing him before he joined Newcastle and his value is reported to be in the millions....but figures of that nature are always over inflated.

[redrobo]

Surely the blame lies fair and square at the defense in front of Turner.

How many times this and in other seasons have we failed to close down the opposition which negates the space for them to have a pop at goal from both in and outside of the box?

Take a look at recent performances it's alarming how easy it is to shoot at any distance as the amount of space an opponent is afforded is criminal.

It certainly doesn't work the other way where we are shut down resulting in that extra pass which discourages from shooting which sadly if we do happen to get one off is either wide or over the top. Very rarely is a shot on target.

Worrying times and I dread the thought of what the FA Cup will bring where our opponents will be in at us from the word go.

Yes - the defence obviously plays a part, but I'm not sure how you can say Turner has been 'excellent' with stats like the one I pointed out... which is the point I was making.

In terms of shots on target allowed (good chances?), we 9th in the league - but I think this is skewed by who we have played (6 of the top 9 teams). I do hate all these stats coming into the game btw, which is driven by an American audience and FIFA video games IMO, but they do support my point somewhat on this occasion so I'll happily use them and let you all carry on with subjective ramblings

Don't recall saying he was excellent but no doubt you'll find that reference from me somewhere.....

[RedRedWine]

I was replying to Rapid Shrimp, who stated that Turner had been 'excellent' thus far. Don't worry - it's not all about you Neil!

Appreciate Turner is developing - nobody is questioning that, so I think that is an irrelevant point that you make and not really what is being discussed. Even so, player development of a loanee shouldn't be at the expense of our own players and team results IF the loanee player is out of form and/or we have somebody who could arguably make the same or a bigger contribution in games. That's what I'm discussing; can we get more out of Mark in the here and now than what we currently get from Turner in games? I'm personally not seeing a great deal to suggest that we can't at the moment - but that's my humble opinion.

Appreciate Turner is good at catching as per Little Shrimp, which is just as well being a goalkeeper and all that . (I do get what you are saying, Mark can be stuck to his line a bit and not come for crosses as often as he should to sniff out danger).

Anyway I don't know why I've got myself sucked into this discussion..... we need improvements in all areas after Tuesday night - its not all on the keeper by any stretch of the imagination.