Is it the players or the management?

[fulwoodshrimp]

Sitting gloomily looking at the league table set me thinking. Is the problem the players, the management or both? On the pitch we clearly have some good players but others who shouldn't be playing league football. We have players loaned us by other League 2 clubs and you wonder why.If they are good enough why have they been loaned to us? Defensively we look poor. Even in the victory against Chesterfield the defence looked shaky, showing no passion and were only saved by an inspired Roche. Midfield lacks any flair or creativity- square balls, pass backs or hoof ball are the order of the day. We create very little for the front men to feed off and as a result our scoring record is poor. Off the field, management seem unsure of our tactics and which is our best team. In my opinion the team doesn't seem well drilled and organised. Regularly we win a free kick and players look at each other wondering who is going to take it. Is the spirit in the team right? Are they playing for the management? How does last season's most influential player(Rose) suddenly become so poor? Why are some players ignored whilst other poor players are selected? We need action to halt the decline in our beloved club. We need change. If nothing is done we will be relegated and slip into football oblivion. I struggle to understand the logic of the board extending contracts. Does that mean both on and off the field the status quo that has brought us to the brink will be maintained whatever? We need inspiration and passion. Who is going to provide it??

[Gone_Shrimping]

I think it is about time young Lavelle was given a run in the team.

A footballing centre half who looked really promising in the pre-season friendlies. I suppose the problem would be that team orders would be to pass it sideways between the back 4 before someone hoofs it upfield.

[BerlinWaller]

No offence, couldn't be arsed reading all that but to answer your question the Management are to blame.

[Duffman]

For me the issues start at the top and they've been there for years. With the board giving Jimbo an extension when we were on a run of 1 win in 14 says it all. We've no ambition, no desire to changes things and the board seem to be happy losing 100-200 fans each year.

Posh put it perfectly in another thread:

Who is Jim accountable to? A rugby watching accountant in Durham? A Qatari on national service? A Chairman who he used to report to?

Any manager on a run of a single win over 14 games must expecting the sack at any time (managers tend to get sacked in half that time) but our board gives him an extension! Where's the incentive to change tactics? Change team selection? Where's the pressure going to come from to give the players a kick up the backside? Where's the leadership? The extension tells Jimbo he doesn't need to change anything, he's doing a good job in his employers eyes.

I'm not calling for him to be sacked but something needs to change as it's feeling like when, not if, we'll be relegated and I don't want to think about what'll happen if we do.

[Teams like Morecambe]

Do we know who made the decision to extend their contracts? Is it an individual or a group of people?

[P/T Indie]

Negative football at home has been driving the fans away for years now and should have been addressed a long time ago.

However we have let things go on for so long we find ourselves in such a predicament there is not much we can do about it and we have to trust in Jim to get the best out of no resources, but you have to ask yourself is the reason we have no resources/crowds because the negative football turned everyone away in the first place but because we are little old Morecambe and glad to finish 3rd from bottom every season the powers to be didn't/don't see it as a problem.

[BerlinWaller]

Negative football at home has been driving the fans away for years now and should have been addressed a long time ago.

However we have let things go on for so long we find ourselves in such a predicament there is not much we can do about it and we have to trust in Jim to get the best out of no resources, but you have to ask yourself is the reason we have no resources/crowds because the negative football turned everyone away in the first place but because we are little old Morecambe and glad to finish 3rd from bottom every season the powers to be didn't/don't see it as a problem.

It is the little old Morecambe thing that has infected the club from top to bottom. We have stopped striving to achieve and have just settled for being happy where we are. The board have accepted it, Jim chucks it out as an excuse and his hangers on preach it to the poor buggers who pay to watch the shite.

[George Dawes]

Neither, its the attitude of the Club. A lot of it is these arse lickers going right out of their way wanting to be best friends with Board Members and Playing Staff what think their speaking for the majority of Morecambe Fans are the ones what are actually having a negative effect on the club It's nothing to do with social media! , what's being said on here and Facebook is only what's being said on match day by ordinary football fans.

[Ispyshrimp]

It's like taking the piss at work and getting a pay rise, doesn't happen does it!!!!
Would love someone to explain how the club gives contract extensions out when on a losing streak.
How many other clubs have done that in past I would like to know!!!

[mrpotatohead]

my opinion is .....the players aren't good enough, I think half of them would struggle to get into any other team in the league below us , let alone this one, the management are playing with a crap hand.

The question regarding the ''who extended Jims deal '' is obviously the board, on the instructions of the majority shareholder or his agent.

The bigger question of course is who's fault is it that the club is in a mess both on and off the pitch ?

A. the apathetic football ''supporters'' of Morecambe.
B. Peter .
C. God, Buddah, Allah or any other non existant supreme being.

[Westgate Wanderer]

my opinion is .....the players aren't good enough, I think half of them would struggle to get into any other team in the league below us , let alone this one, the management are playing with a crap hand.

The question regarding the ''who extended Jims deal '' is obviously the board, on the instructions of the majority shareholder or his agent.

The bigger question of course is who's fault is it that the club is in a mess both on and off the pitch ?

A. the apathetic football ''supporters'' of Morecambe.
B. Peter .
C. God, Buddah, Allah or any other non existant supreme being.

The Manager of the team on the pitch! If it wasn't for B we would still be in the Conference watching from a loved but broken old ground!

[jbcshrimp]

At the fans forum it was apparentelly confirmed our benefactor is going to fund us for the next 2 years, does this include buying players or just paying wages and the electric bills ?

[Westgate Wanderer]

At the fans forum it was apparentelly confirmed our benefactor is going to fund us for the next 2 years, does this include buying players or just paying wages and the electric bills ?

As i heard it it's the bills and general running of the club he underwrites,is standard practice by the Football League. It is also not a 2 years and they're off thing, in that time they will be looking to sell us on

[mrpotatohead]

Put Jensen Button in a 1 .0 VW UP , and my 19 year old son in a 6.0 Aston Martin , let them have a race down the bay gateway , who'd lose......Button, would it be his fault, of course not, Jim is racing in the UP.

It's that simple.

[Seasider9601]

Put Jensen Button in a 1 .0 VW UP , and my 19 year old son in a 6.0 Aston Martin , let them have a race down the bay gateway , who'd lose......Button, would it be his fault, of course not, Jim is racing in the UP.

It's that simple.

Spot on.

[The Marksman]

This isn't an either or situation. Like most things there's a little from column A and a little from column B (and C and D etc).

In my opinion, Jim's an ok manager. He's kept us in the division on little budget for some time now. I don't think he's the best tactically, and I don't think he improves players much if at all with training, but he has in the past been able to pick a player to sign and get the best out of for a season or so before they go on to somewhere bigger to sit on the bench or we maybe make a bit of money off selling them. He has been particularly good with getting strikers firing from what I've seen. Unfortunately that's not really happening this season, hence we are where we are in the league.

The players are what they are. As has already been said, some of them probably aren't good enough for this league, but it's not their fault they were signed.

We have a pretty skeleton backroom staff, including coaches, scouts and data analysts. Pretty sure we can't match most teams in the division for that. But then, we can't afford any more than that.

There aren't a lot of bums on seats. This is a chicken-and-egg situation, less attendances driving down budget which drives down quality which means less attendances and so on. However this had to start somewhere - and it was down to the fact that we ARE one of the smallest teams in the division, and punching above our natural level, and we have never had the budget to compete long term. Were we in the Conference and actually winning games, more people would be likely to attend as was shown when we were last there.

The ownership situation hasn't helped at all, either with budget or stability. I do think it was a bit strange of whoever is currently in charge to offer a contract extension when they did.

Add all this together...and how do we resolve it? We go down a division and regroup. I am looking forward to some good old fashioned Conference football next season.

[Shrimpy]

Add all this together...and how do we resolve it? We go down a division and regroup. I am looking forward to some good old fashioned Conference football next season.

I think you would be surprised. We'd struggle at that level just as much as we are doing at this one.

[BerlinWaller]

Add all this together...and how do we resolve it? We go down a division and regroup. I am looking forward to some good old fashioned Conference football next season.

I think you would be surprised. We'd struggle at that level just as much as we are doing at this one.

Totally agree. With the clubs current attitude we will be cannon fodder for the Conference sides

[Seasider9601]

For a club of our size, once you go down to the Conference you're bollocksed basically.

Of the teams that HAVE made it back to League 2 after relegation (Grimsby Town, Luton Town, Cambridge United as a few examples) it took them 3, sometimes 4, seasons to get back up to League 2. And they did that on crowds of 5,000 average for each of those clubs (ok, Cambridge slightly less).
Look at Tranmere Rovers. Big club, big crowds. Can they get out of the Conference? They're struggling to do so.

Then, as Shrimpy alluded to yesterday, look at the likes of York City, Stockport County and Kidderminster Harriers. All former Football League clubs who have plummeted down to Conference North level (again, ok, Kiddie have gone back up since to Conference National).

Darlington FC. Had to re-form and started again in the Northern League Division 2.

[The Marksman]

For a club of our size, once you go down to the Conference you're bollocksed basically.

Of the teams that HAVE made it back to League 2 after relegation (Grimsby Town, Luton Town, Cambridge United as a few examples) it took them 3, sometimes 4, seasons to get back up to League 2. And they did that on crowds of 5,000 average for each of those clubs (ok, Cambridge slightly less).
Look at Tranmere Rovers. Big club, big crowds. Can they get out of the Conference? They're struggling to do so.

That's just it though - I don't WANT to come back up to League Two. It's no fun here.

[Shrimpy]

For a club of our size, once you go down to the Conference you're bollocksed basically.

Of the teams that HAVE made it back to League 2 after relegation (Grimsby Town, Luton Town, Cambridge United as a few examples) it took them 3, sometimes 4, seasons to get back up to League 2. And they did that on crowds of 5,000 average for each of those clubs (ok, Cambridge slightly less).
Look at Tranmere Rovers. Big club, big crowds. Can they get out of the Conference? They're struggling to do so.

That's just it though - I don't WANT to come back up to League Two. It's no fun here.

My point being it's probably not going to be any more fun in the Conference! We might need to get relegated into Conference North before we can start stabilising again as a club.

[The Marksman]

For a club of our size, once you go down to the Conference you're bollocksed basically.

Of the teams that HAVE made it back to League 2 after relegation (Grimsby Town, Luton Town, Cambridge United as a few examples) it took them 3, sometimes 4, seasons to get back up to League 2. And they did that on crowds of 5,000 average for each of those clubs (ok, Cambridge slightly less).
Look at Tranmere Rovers. Big club, big crowds. Can they get out of the Conference? They're struggling to do so.

That's just it though - I don't WANT to come back up to League Two. It's no fun here.

My point being it's probably not going to be any more fun in the Conference! We might need to get relegated into Conference North before we can start stabilising again as a club.

So be it, I'll take that.

[Christies Child]

Maybe not the most popular of things to say but for me it's down to a lack of entertainment based on a negative approach to games that has seen a 50% reduction in gates. We are after all in the entertainment business and until we adopt a more positive approach to home games (like we used to) then we will continue to struggle.

A good FA Cup run would help the finances but I'm not that confident that we will get through v Hartlepool.

Sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but......

[KenH]

and we have never had the budget to compete long term.

If the sale of CP and the move to Westgate had been handled better, there'd have been a lot more "spare" cash. Instead, we overspent massively, and what little funds were left over were spent on covering the losses instead. The "plan" had always been to spent the projected few million on players etc., but it just never happened due to mismanagement of the move, overspending, changing plans, totally unrealistic projections on the profitability of the hospitality, gym, sale of surplus land, etc. What could have been a golden legacy of CP was basically wasted due to poor decisions.

[Gone_Shrimping]

and we have never had the budget to compete long term.

If the sale of CP and the move to Westgate had been handled better, there'd have been a lot more "spare" cash. Instead, we overspent massively, and what little funds were left over were spent on covering the losses instead. The "plan" had always been to spent the projected few million on players etc., but it just never happened due to mismanagement of the move, overspending, changing plans, totally unrealistic projections on the profitability of the hospitality, gym, sale of surplus land, etc. What could have been a golden legacy of CP was basically wasted due to poor decisions.

I think from memory that the main stand was originally going to be 2 storey like Burton Albion.

We could have done far worse than ask Burton's contractor to produce a similar stadium to the one at The Pirelli. How on earth did we manage to appoint Globe Construction.

Too late now and to quote someone we are what we are.