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Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:32 pmby Keith
I don't like having a pop at our own players but surely the time has come for him to be dropped?
Either:
1. He's simply not good enough
2. The system doesn't work for him as he's too isolated
or
3. He's got the ability that Jim sees, but his confidence is shot at the moment.
I can't think of any other explanations?
If it is the first, then he needs to be dropped and someone else given a chance.
If it is the second, then either change the system, or drop him for someone who can work with the team around them.
If it is the third, then stick him in the reserves for a while to let him find his shooting boots again and fight his way back in to the side once his confidence returns.
At the moment, I suspect his confidence is low AND a bit of one of the other two? I suppose it could be argued that with a bit of luck & more composure he could have scored three so far this season (hit the post & missed a one-on-one at Crewe and a great opportunity yesterday) in which case, he'd be among the top of the league scorers even if we were still bottom of the league with no points. But, the fact is, he's fluffed all three chances. It's going to get lonelier & lonelier out there on his own.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:41 pmby redrobo
Was speculation yesterday that he'd refused to go out on loan, if that is the case even more baffling that he retained his place in the starting 11.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:49 pmby BerlinWaller
Big V just chucked my lad a sweet at the Carnival. It was really nice of him but it went 8 yards wide of where we were stood
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:55 pmby Little Shrimp
I think he's a supporting striker, not a lone striker. I don't mind 4-3-2-1 if we put the right personnel in it but Oliver is not the right personnel.
He showed in flashes that if balls are well directed to him, he can quite successfully provide layoffs to supporting players. However, our style and formation requires him to trap the ball and hold it up which he can't do particularly well as his first touch isn't great.
I think he could be utilised in a front two with a partner he can lay the ball off to. As a lone striker in which he has to trap the ball well and take the main goal scoring responsibility, it's just not going to work.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:56 pmby MFC-Manc
Anyone who has played the game would realise that being upfront on your own is a thankless task.... you need support....
I assumed that’s what Campbell was bought for..... I was wrong.
Oliver is not a loan striker..... he needs a player upfront with him.
Formation: 3-5-2 or 4-4-2
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:03 pmby marky No.1
Great film, remember watching it as a kid
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:47 pmby George Dawes
Olivier reminds me like an old Paul Mullin he was crap on his own upgront as was Phil Jevons but when you played them both together! WOW they got us to a 4th place finish and gate crashing the play offs, Morecambes best ever season what a partnership!
i would like to see Oswell and Olivier both upfront in a partnership! or maybe Oates., as we dont have anyone who can play the lone striker effectivly.
Re: Oli
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:35 pmby bill ding
redrobo wrote:Was speculation yesterday that he'd refused to go out on loan, if that is the case even more baffling that he retained his place in the starting 11.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:18 pmby Westgate Wanderer
marky No.1 wrote:Great film, remember watching it as a kid
agreed, but we want more (goals) sir!
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:36 pmby CityShrimp
Surely a partnership of Oswell and AJ Leitch-Smith is our best option?
Either in a 4-4-2 with Oates and Ellison right and left... or in a 3-5-2 with three in the middle.
The PNE game on Tuesday is a chance to try a new attacking option, and let’s face it, it can’t get any worse.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:35 pmby fulwoodshrimp
Other clubs before us thought they could make a footballer of Oliver. After all he is tall,athletic and strong. Unfortunately we are finding what the other clubs found, his heading ability is poor in terms of directing his headers, his first touch on many occasions is poor and his attitude seems lax. He doesn't seem to have passion for the game. What really shocks me is the management don't seem to recognise his weaknesses. We need a goal scoring striker. We haven't got that in Vadaine Oliver!
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:57 pmby bill ding
Westgate Wanderer wrote:marky No.1 wrote:Great film, remember watching it as a kid
agreed, but we want more (goals) sir!
Sorry thought you was on about 6-3-3 squadron
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:23 pmby NPL Daze
It was mentioned by York fans that his attitude was atrocious
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:03 pmby Westgate Wanderer
bill ding wrote:Westgate Wanderer wrote:marky No.1 wrote:Great film, remember watching it as a kid
agreed, but we want more (goals) sir!
Sorry thought you was on about 6-3-3 squadron
if we had that formation we would by flying
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:34 amby marky No.1
Westgate Wanderer wrote:marky No.1 wrote:Great film, remember watching it as a kid
agreed, but we want more (goals) sir!
Yes we do, just thought the film was more exciting than 90% of our support going on about our no. 9.
Penny might drop one day
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:53 amby Posh
CityShrimp wrote:Surely a partnership of Oswell and AJ Leitch-Smith is our best option?
Either in a 4-4-2 with Oates and Ellison right and left... or in a 3-5-2 with three in the middle.
The PNE game on Tuesday is a chance to try a new attacking option, and let’s face it, it can’t get any worse.
Agree on Oswell and AJ.
3-5-2 would be my preference but we need the right personnel. The formation would work well for Mills and particularly Cranston, who looks weak defending but good going forward.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:56 amby Posh
NPL Daze wrote:It was mentioned by York fans that his attitude was atrocious
Not so much his attitude but his confidence.
Playing well as a team and he showed some quality. Playing badly and his head went down and stayed down.
Bear in mind he got relegated two seasons running and one of those he played in a front two with Jon Parkin.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:25 amby Gone_Shrimping
He should have had 2 goals already this season.
Almost identical chances against Crewe and Exeter with just the keeper to beat from 6 yards. You have to wonder what Jim sees him contributing especially in the system he employs.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:30 amby The Marksman
When he scored most of his goals for York, he was playing on the right side of a front three according to a York fan at work. Said he was always crap centrally.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:34 amby BerlinWaller
It is clear to see that he is not good enough but he is also let down by the supply and support of other players. Watch how many times the ball lands on his chest or how many times he has a decent chance of winning the header. If he wins the header, how many red shirts are there first?
Playing Oliver dictates the style of play and makes us really easy to play against.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:48 amby Shrimpy
Posh wrote:NPL Daze wrote:Bear in mind he got relegated two seasons running and one of those he played in a front two with Jon Parkin.
Playing with Jon Parkin also saw him have his best run of form where the duties of "target man" were taken off him and he had someone else doing the donkey work for him.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:56 amby Shrimpy
Posh wrote:3-5-2 would be my preference but we need the right personnel. The formation would work well for Mills and particularly Cranston, who looks weak defending but good going forward.
Only problem with this is if you're putting Leitch-Smith and Oswell up front and having Cranston and Mills as wing backs then we have the likes of Kev, Oates, Mandeville and Thommo (when he's back) who have no role to play in the side. It's a huge waste of 4 players who were brought in to play as "wide forwards" in a 4-2-3-1.
2 games into the season and we're already talking about ripping up the tactics and having to leave out players who don't fit into any new system we choose.
A classic 4-4-2 would be better suited to the players we have but are we good enough to play with just two midfielders and keep a back four?
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:08 amby George Dawes
Shrimpy wrote:
A classic 4-4-2 would be better suited to the players we have but are we good enough to play with just two midfielders and keep a back four?
but thats exactly what we are doing in a 4-2-3-1, we just have 2 infront of the back for with the full backs with no protection and constantly getting the opposition doubling up overlapping them.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:16 amby Shrimpy
George Dawes wrote:Shrimpy wrote:
A classic 4-4-2 would be better suited to the players we have but are we good enough to play with just two midfielders and keep a back four?
but thats exactly what we are doing in a 4-2-3-1, we just have 2 infront of the back for with the full backs with no protection and constantly getting the opposition doubling up overlapping them.
Yep, it's not too dissimilar a formation, just means you play with 2 out and out strikers as opposed to a striker and an attacking midfielder.
This is my point, 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, the makeup of our squad is built to employ these systems yet we've looked crap operating this for some time. A switch to 3-5-2, 5-3-2 or any other kind of variable means we are short of centre backs and have an abundance of wide players who no longer have any role to play in the team.
Re: Oliver
Posted:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:31 amby black morse
Shrimpy wrote:Posh wrote:3-5-2 would be my preference but we need the right personnel. The formation would work well for Mills and particularly Cranston, who looks weak defending but good going forward.
Only problem with this is if you're putting Leitch-Smith and Oswell up front and having Cranston and Mills as wing backs
then we have the likes of Kev, Oates, Mandeville and Thommo (when he's back) who have no role to play in the side. It's a huge waste of 4 players who were brought in to play as "wide forwards" in a 4-2-3-1.2 games into the season and we're already talking about ripping up the tactics and having to leave out players who don't fit into any new system we choose.
A classic 4-4-2 would be better suited to the players we have but are we good enough to play with just two midfielders and keep a back four?
We don't really know whether Thommo will ever be fit to play again and we do need back ups in all positions to cover for injuries/suspensions and match substitutions. I do take your point but I think you're wrong to say those 4 are a waste.