Shrimpsvoices

With results elsewhere yesterday confirmed for me something that I suspect we have feared since Christmas that we are without doubt in a relegation dog fight with Macc and Yeovil the other prime candidates as I can see County having the purchasing power to buy their way out of trouble.

For me our management team have to look at their apparent reluctance to change and decide to be more attack minded and put more bodies into an opponents box at every opportunity. We've now got on board thanks to Accy a player more than capable of putting crosses into the box but after a more than welcome initial approach by him it appeared that he realised that even if he put crosses into the box there was a distinct lack of numbers in red to capitalise on his creativity.

Like others I watched MoD last night and whilst i do not expect us to play like a Premiership team it is blatantly obvious that by getting more players in an opponents box that there is an increased probability of a goal. We seem to play with a single striker without any meaningful support from his team mates resulting in very little pressure being applied to an opponents defence.

The manager and his assistant(s) need to change their game plan (assuming that there is one) and become more attack minded rather than it appears to be more mindful to stop a goal which results are proving is foolhardy.

I for one fear that relegation for the first time in my 60+ years as a loyal fan are more than a distinct possibility. Last season we escaped more from the generosity of Coventry than result lead but this season we are in an even worse crisis. For me I'd rather went out fighting with a 'shit or bust' ethic than to continue with such negativity from the touchline.

Like a number of others I doubt that the owners will make changes at the helm so the management team have to change their tactics( ) and become more attack minded before it's too late because once we are out of the EFL I doubt we will ever return. We only have to look at former EFL clubs to see what can happen. Stockport, York, Hereford, Darlington, Chester, and Kid'minster all now play in a league BELOW the National.

We HAVE the players more than capable to get us out of this dire position; do we however have the management team capable of changing their philosophy to get us into a position of safety

Time will tell but for me it's getting perilously close to a doomsday scenario and all that follows from that...

Bentley won't change his philosophy. He's stubborn.

If we go down, he has to shoulder a big portion of the blame. Like you said, we don't commit enough players forward and we also don't make very intelligent runs into the channels. The lack of movement yesterday when we were 3-2 down was astonishing. It was as if after that spell where we scored 2 we were content to lose.

Also, when was the last time we scored a really well worked goal from open play? And when was the last time we scored a pen? We've been awarded 3 pens this season and missed them all.

when we go down at least we will keep our squad intact as no one in this league will want to poach any of our players...they arent good enough for league 2.

mrpotatohead wrote:when we go down at least we will keep our squad intact as no one in this league will want to poach any of our players...they arent good enough for league 2.

Really? I think it is the best and largest squad he has had for a few years. He has brought in players as and when he has wanted. Not an excuse this year.

BerlinWaller wrote:

mrpotatohead wrote:when we go down at least we will keep our squad intact as no one in this league will want to poach any of our players...they arent good enough for league 2.

Really? I think it is the best and largest squad he has had for a few years. He has brought in players as and when he has wanted. Not an excuse this year.

The players we have, have enough about them, and will keep us in Lge 2.
Bringing in players is one thing. Bringing in the players (that many teams would want,) and need,( including Jim ) is something totally different.

Rather than bringing in players with little if any EFL experience we should concentrate whatever resources we have on bringing in an out of contract experienced midfield general even if age isn't on his side. No disrespect to the new lad brought in last night ( he''s had more clubs on loan than most have in a career) but surely he's here just to fill the bench and what does that say to Hedly who sits on the bench week in and week out knowing full well he's not going to be given any game time.

Concentrate the money we may have ( ) on a player or players who will make a difference.

We have the players , probably the best squad since we had Twiss , Baker and Thommo together.

Why oh why do we only start playing with tempo and urgency when we are losing ! It's much easier if you attack when it's 0-0 and keep attacking when you are winning.

Next 3 away games are Port Vale , Oldham and Yeovil. We really need to be winning the games against the teams around us , draws are not really good enough but better than losing.

My gut feeling is we will stay up and that Macclesfield and Yeovil will go down but Jim has to change his game-plan to make that happen.

It is fairly evident now that we have what we have, and have to run with this to the end of the season. I know Keith and others have a long list of points that Jim has "had to deal with" over the last few years - budget, training ground, weather, traffic, whatever. It is all irrelevant now because none of those factors are going to change between now and May.

The question is - can this squad keep us in the division? On paper, I like to think that there is enough in that team to do it, but based on what I have seen this season to date, I have no confidence. Only 4 home wins all season, but worse still - 9 losses (the most in the division). Our away form is slightly better, but still only 3 wins. The only consistency we do show is not turning up until at least half time, bafflingly poor set pieces (on the whole) and atrocious decision making. I certainly am not seeing the fight from the team that would suggest we are weeks away from going down.

Unless we pick up results soon, the question will be - do we need a change in manager to try to get the points needed to stay up? That could be the last variable that can be changed. I don't want Jim to leave - but understand that this Club going down has far wider ramifications than us just being in the Conference. Don't listen to the doubters - there would be an abundance of applications for the role. Equally the cost of paying Jim off will be a fraction of the lost income from relegation longer term.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that - but Saturday is a must win for me. In a literal sense it isn't of course, as there are 14 more games but if we can't beat Port Value who have a home form even worse than ours, then I don't think we have any hope of getting the points needed to stay up.

Morecambe Jack wrote:It is fairly evident now that we have what we have, and have to run with this to the end of the season. I know Keith and others have a long list of points that Jim has "had to deal with" over the last few years - budget, training ground, weather, traffic, whatever. It is all irrelevant now because none of those factors are going to change between now and May.

The question is - can this squad keep us in the division? On paper, I like to think that there is enough in that team to do it, but based on what I have seen this season to date, I have no confidence. Only 4 home wins all season, but worse still - 9 losses (the most in the division). Our away form is slightly better, but still only 3 wins. The only consistency we do show is not turning up until at least half time, bafflingly poor set pieces (on the whole) and atrocious decision making. I certainly am not seeing the fight from the team that would suggest we are weeks away from going down.

Unless we pick up results soon, the question will be - do we need a change in manager to try to get the points needed to stay up? That could be the last variable that can be changed. I don't want Jim to leave - but understand that this Club going down has far wider ramifications than us just being in the Conference. Don't listen to the doubters - there would be an abundance of applications for the role. Equally the cost of paying Jim off will be a fraction of the lost income from relegation longer term.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that - but Saturday is a must win for me. In a literal sense it isn't of course, as there are 14 more games but if we can't beat Port Value who have a home form even worse than ours, then I don't think we have any hope of getting the points needed to stay up.

Agree fully with this.

It is looking pretty dire, so long since the last win and so many silly dropped points - just lucky the teams below have not caught up but they will soon. The game away to Oldham is a certain defeat.

Excellent point made about ex-FL league clubs going down and struggling to come up, it would be very hard to make a return any time soon out of that league.

Results are needed....fast.

Potted Shrimp wrote:It is looking pretty dire, so long since the last win and so many silly dropped points - just lucky the teams below have not caught up but they will soon. The game away to Oldham is a certain defeat.

Excellent point made about ex-FL league clubs going down and struggling to come up, it would be very hard to make a return any time soon out of that league.

Results are needed....fast.

There are no certainties in football, for if there were the bookies would go out of business overnight, as said previously they'll be plenty of twists and turns plus results you'd never imagine
A win at port vale and against yeovil would do the power of good not forgetting that the other sides down there have some extremely difficult games coming up

Relegation is always on the cards as it is at the start of every season so our predicament shouldn't come as a surprise. Yes we might have a better squad this season but its all relative. Most teams have strengthened as well. One glimmer of hope is that we've been here before and survived albeit just. Lets hope that experience stands us in good stead.

broadwayshrimp wrote:One glimmer of hope is that we've been here before and survived albeit just. Lets hope that experience stands us in good stead.

We only survived because Coventy allowed us to via a draw. I'm not sure that counts as "experience". It was definitely luck.

broadwayshrimp wrote:Relegation is always on the cards as it is at the start of every season so our predicament shouldn't come as a surprise. Yes we might have a better squad this season but its all relative. Most teams have strengthened as well. One glimmer of hope is that we've been here before and survived albeit just. Lets hope that experience stands us in good stead.

KenH wrote:

broadwayshrimp wrote:One glimmer of hope is that we've been here before and survived albeit just. Lets hope that experience stands us in good stead.

We only survived because Coventy allowed us to via a draw. I'm not sure that counts as "experience". It was definitely luck.

MFC have been bookies favourites to be relegated, every year since becoming a Lge2 team. I think the fact we haven’t, counts as massive “experience,” of winning the relegation battle.
Come on the lads.

Our final game is Newport at home. How ironic if a goal from a certain ex-Shrimp was the one to send us down.

Unless we start winning soon the final game may be a formality though.

Gone_Shrimping wrote:Our final game is Newport at home. How ironic if a goal from a certain ex-Shrimp was the one to send us down.

Unless we start winning soon the final game may be a formality though.

An irony, that would sadly, have a number of our fans feeling totally vindicated.
Definitely need to start winning some matches, and kick on. As you say, this will then, also make the final day a formality, staying up, and just one to enjoy as another match day.
Up The Shrimps.

BerlinWaller wrote:Really? I think it is the best and largest squad he has had for a few years. He has brought in players as and when he has wanted. Not an excuse this year.

Only if you are still counting the injured ones! If you only look at the fit ones, it is a threadbare squad.

Keith wrote:Only if you are still counting the injured ones! If you only look at the fit ones, it is a threadbare squad.

We've had a lot worse. Wasn't it 2013 when Jim started with a much smaller/younger squad and was reliant on the youth team for the bench (some of whom played too!). I distinctly remember one game where the bench was entirely youth players. Jim's got the biggest squad of first team players this season - yes, there are a lot of injuries, but our bench is still strong (Oates, McKay, left unplayed yesterday!) and Campbell not even on the bench. Then we had a year or two with a transfer embargo. This season, Jim started with a bigger, stronger team and has been able to bring in replacement players.

We have to get to the bottom of why so many players are getting injured. Is their fitness training good enough? What are they doing in training? Set pieces (both attack and defence) are dreadful, clearly not practising penalties, link play is woeful. It's all pointing to training (or lack of).

Gone_Shrimping wrote:We have the players , probably the best squad since we had Twiss , Baker and Thommo together.

It's nowhere near.

We once had a squad that managed to finish 11th that was filled with good experienced players at this level. Roche, Beeley, Devitt, Hughes, Edwards, Redshaw, Wright, Ellison, Mullin, Goodall, Drummond, Fleming, Wilson, Amond. There is no way that our current squad is anywhere near as good as that.

A few years ago we managed to boast an array of attacking talent that included Miller, Mullin, Devitt, Barkhuizen and Ellison, our current crop of forwards pales in comparison to them.

KenH wrote:

Keith wrote:Only if you are still counting the injured ones! If you only look at the fit ones, it is a threadbare squad.

We've had a lot worse. Wasn't it 2013 when Jim started with a much smaller/younger squad and was reliant on the youth team for the bench (some of whom played too!). I distinctly remember one game where the bench was entirely youth players. Jim's got the biggest squad of first team players this season - yes, there are a lot of injuries, but our bench is still strong (Oates, McKay, left unplayed yesterday!) and Campbell not even on the bench. Then we had a year or two with a transfer embargo. This season, Jim started with a bigger, stronger team and has been able to bring in replacement players.

We have to get to the bottom of why so many players are getting injured. Is their fitness training good enough? What are they doing in training? Set pieces (both attack and defence) are dreadful, clearly not practising penalties, link play is woeful. It's all pointing to training (or lack of).

This is purely my take on this subject of injuries etc but we seem to sign players with a track record of injuries or fitness problems.

Tutt, Wildig, Sinclair, Leitch-Smith, Mills all had injury problems when we signed them and Oates has and had fitness problems at previous clubs.

Cranston was surplus to requirements at Cheltenham as was Mandy at Doncaster. Oliver has a record of non achievement as a striker and Halstead couldn't even get a game at Southport.

I accept fully that finances dictate who we can and can not sign and I do believe that our CURRENT fit squad with the recent new additions plus (I live in hope) of an additional experienced midfielder should on paper be good enough to get us out of the relegation dog fight BUT we also need our management team to be more adventurous in our style of play. Maybe if and when Fleming returns it will see an improvement in our engine room...

Shrimpy wrote:

Gone_Shrimping wrote:We have the players , probably the best squad since we had Twiss , Baker and Thommo together.

It's nowhere near.

We once had a squad that managed to finish 11th that was filled with good experienced players at this level. Roche, Beeley, Devitt, Hughes, Edwards, Redshaw, Wright, Ellison, Mullin, Goodall, Drummond, Fleming, Wilson, Amond. There is no way that our current squad is anywhere near as good as that.

A few years ago we managed to boast an array of attacking talent that included Miller, Mullin, Devitt, Barkhuizen and Ellison, our current crop of forwards pales in comparison to them.

Its all a matter of opinion. I think with the exception of Conlan who I regard as a weak link ,the defence is more solid that the ones you mention. Wilson was good in his first spell for us but was a pale shadow when he returned.

Even allowing for injuries IMHO we have a better squad than last season so I wasn't expecting us to be as low as we are.

KenH wrote:

broadwayshrimp wrote:One glimmer of hope is that we've been here before and survived albeit just. Lets hope that experience stands us in good stead.

We only survived because Coventy allowed us to via a draw. I'm not sure that counts as "experience". It was definitely luck.

I wasn't on about the Coventry game or even last season as a whole, more the fact that we have played a lot of football in League 2 with the threat of relegation hanging over us.

Gone_Shrimping wrote:

Shrimpy wrote:

Gone_Shrimping wrote:We have the players , probably the best squad since we had Twiss , Baker and Thommo together.

It's nowhere near.

We once had a squad that managed to finish 11th that was filled with good experienced players at this level. Roche, Beeley, Devitt, Hughes, Edwards, Redshaw, Wright, Ellison, Mullin, Goodall, Drummond, Fleming, Wilson, Amond. There is no way that our current squad is anywhere near as good as that.

A few years ago we managed to boast an array of attacking talent that included Miller, Mullin, Devitt, Barkhuizen and Ellison, our current crop of forwards pales in comparison to them.

Its all a matter of opinion. I think with the exception of Conlan who I regard as a weak link ,the defence is more solid that the ones you mention. Wilson was good in his first spell for us but was a pale shadow when he returned.

Even allowing for injuries IMHO we have a better squad than last season so I wasn't expecting us to be as low as we are.

I completely agree the squad is better than last season and it's certainly deeper.

As has been alluded to previously it's injuries that are the problem. The first part of the season we struggled for defenders with Kenyon having to play there for a number of games, then the centre of our midfield was decimated with Wildig, Fleming, Tutte, Jagne all spending time on the sidelines. Now we find ourselves with Leitch-Smith and Oliver out for significant time. I've not even mentioned we've had to do without Barry for large parts of the season.

Give Jim the ability to name the following side most weeks and I think we'd be comfortably safe of relegation to be honest.

------------------------ Roche -------------------------

Mills ------- Lavelle ------- Sutton ------- Cranston

Mingoia ----- Fleming ----- Tutte ----- Mandeville

-------------- Bennett ----- Leitch-Smith -----------

[/quote]
I completely agree the squad is better than last season and it's certainly deeper.

As has been alluded to previously it's injuries that are the problem. The first part of the season we struggled for defenders with Kenyon having to play there for a number of games, then the centre of our midfield was decimated with Wildig, Fleming, Tutte, Jagne all spending time on the sidelines. Now we find ourselves with Leitch-Smith and Oliver out for significant time. I've not even mentioned we've had to do without Barry for large parts of the season.

Give Jim the ability to name the following side most weeks and I think we'd be comfortably safe of relegation to be honest.

------------------------ Roche -------------------------

Mills ------- Lavelle ------- Sutton ------- Cranston

Mingoia ----- Fleming ----- Tutte ----- Mandeville

-------------- Bennett ----- Leitch-Smith -----------[/quote]

Absolutely right. Jim can only dream about such a scenario being available week in, week out.

I completely agree the squad is better than last season and it's certainly deeper.

As has been alluded to previously it's injuries that are the problem. The first part of the season we struggled for defenders with Kenyon having to play there for a number of games, then the centre of our midfield was decimated with Wildig, Fleming, Tutte, Jagne all spending time on the sidelines. Now we find ourselves with Leitch-Smith and Oliver out for significant time. I've not even mentioned we've had to do without Barry for large parts of the season.

Give Jim the ability to name the following side most weeks and I think we'd be comfortably safe of relegation to be honest.

------------------------ Roche -------------------------

Mills ------- Lavelle ------- Sutton ------- Cranston

Mingoia ----- Fleming ----- Tutte ----- Mandeville

-------------- Bennett ----- Leitch-Smith -----------[/quote]

Spot on. All teams have injuries to players throughout the season but to have 10 of your squad currently out or doubtful is bound to impact, particularly at a club like ours. The team suggested by Shrimpy has 6 players carrying injuries.