Shrimpsvoices

Seems like a debate we have every season with Halstead, but is it time to give him another chance? I certainly have a perception that we concede most of our shots on target. The past few games we've been quite solid defensively, but still ended up conceding one of the few shots we've faced.

Statistically based on the shots we've faced, expected goals suggests we should have conceded 17.8 goals. Instead, we've conceded 25 goals, and the 7.2 differential is the worst in the league. 25 goals conceded is the third-worst in the league, as is our goal difference.

In Turner's defence, I think he's fantastic at gathering the ball and punching it clear, never seems to fumble it or give the attackers a second chance. It's also clearly not all his fault, if you look at Salford they threw bodies in the way of every shot, whilst their two goals flew in from outside the box unimpeded.

This isn't just based on last night by the way, the first shot was unstoppable so can't blame him for that. But if it's not Turner, what needs to change to stop us conceding when statistically we shouldn't be?

Neither of last nights goals were saveable (is that even a word?). I’d be looking at why we can’t close down on the edge of the box.

Halstead had his chance and made loads of errors. Both games v Blackpool, home to Oldham, away at Bradford are a few that spring to mind.

I think I posted a similar observation a few weeks ago regarding Turner, has he actually made a decent save yet that has earnt us points? I can remember one vs Tranmere where he spread himself well, and another in the FA Cup where he came out and closed down the angle. On the flip side, he's not made any daft mistakes that have cost us points either.

When I looked it up back then, we were worst in the league for goals conceded vs shots on target - and we were by no means conceding lots of opportunities. Within that stat, I'd say that there is a high proportion of goals against that are scored from outside the box - which you'd normally expect to skew the data in the other direction as these are generally more difficult opportunities and therefore 'saveable'. We hardly ever score from these sorts of chances (perhaps because we should shoot more often?) - the last time I can remember was Jon O'Sullivan at Port Vale.

Jake is great at claiming crosses and commanding the box, but we need more in my opinion. The first one last night I don't really think he had a chance with, but the second one is a long way out and he is not really close to saving it, as though he didn't react. It would have been a good save for sure, but he's overdue one! We need some saves - it seems like every shot on target is going in at times..... and these aren't 1v1s.

Based on what I've seen, Mark is a better shot stopper and Jake is better commanding the box. Who is the better keeper? Not much in it IMO. Mark has at times singlehandedly won us games in the past (Port Vale away 2 seasons ago springs to mind, penalty save + 5 or 6 other amazing stops) and is our own player. When there's not much in it, I think you have to go with your own player, but I don't know the contractual situation with Jake..... don't think Newcastle United have sent him here to sit on the bench(?).

RedRedWine wrote:When I looked it up back then, we were worst in the league for goals conceded vs shots on target - and we were by no means conceding lots of opportunities.

You're right, we're rock bottom of the league and by some distance (data was before last night). We concede a goal every 2.17 shots on target we face, interestingly Salford were top with 4.5 shots on target faced per goal. Stevenage are second, they concede a goal every 4.36 shots on target they face.

We're second-bottom by total shots, above Southend. We concede a goal every 6.78 shots we face, Cambridge are top this time conceding a goal every 15.22 shots!

It's clearly a massive weakness of ours, we'll keep seeing good performances go unrewarded if we concede nearly every other shot on target we face. No use keeping an opponent to 2 shots on target if we end up drawing 1-1 anyway. Some of these are wondergoals, like Salford's first last night, but you have to expect more from your goalkeeper. Perhaps it's a positioning issue as well that makes the shots seem more "unsaveable" than they are?

I’m a big fan of Turner. He’s calm, composed and looks like he sends confidence to the rest of the team. It may just come down to the fact that we aren’t good enough at closing the opposition down, leading to their players having more time to set themselves to find the corners of the net. Turner might not have made an abundance of saves, but he also hasn’t made many mistakes, unlike Halstead who we all know is very prone to a howler or two.

I don’t think there’s even a debate in my mind, Turner is our number one and a much better option than Halstead. I’d give Mark a run out against Solihull on Saturday to get some minutes in the tank for him, but Turner is undisputed for me.

It seems every time we concede a goal there is a thread about the goal keeper. Maybe the goals are highlighted more because we aren't at the games seeing the good saves that Jake is making.

Agree with some of all the comments above, if that makes sense. I can’t remember too many mistakes by MH, or by JT, so for me, it’s the usual opinion issue.
When it is made clear, for such a long period of time, that a player is rated 2nd choice keeper, then it would be a difficult managerial decision, to suddenly call on him to start as first choice, without a really good reason. Is that reasoning there?
I rate MH, and would have liked to see that built on from the start by DA, but I am just a fan, not a manager. If this was about two new keepers brought in, I feel that the debate would be different(?)
As it stands we have had a really good start to the season, not comparing it to previous, (can’t see what that achieves personally,) so lots of positive, and reason to be proud of our team.

I reckon mark will go in January before his release at the end of the season. Clearly Jake is first choice and there seems little that Mark can do to alter that fact. We have the young keeper that can back Jake up, so we should let Mark go, with our thanks, as we did with with Nizic, and move on

Slanester wrote:Agree with some of all the comments above, if that makes sense. I can’t remember too many mistakes by MH, or by JT, so for me, it’s the usual opinion issue.

The reason MH was replaced in the first place was that he was making loads of mistakes. The ones I mention above were ones I remember at games I was at. There were also 2 or 3 in the Northampton game which is when I think Adams lost patience. A Spurs supporting friend of mine was at that game as he won some tickets. He said at the time that there wasn’t much between the sides but our keeper (MH) was very poor.

Halstead seems like a good guy and makes some good saves but he’s had enough chances to prove he’s good enough in L2. Sadly he’s not

Ego Tripping wrote:

Slanester wrote:Agree with some of all the comments above, if that makes sense. I can’t remember too many mistakes by MH, or by JT, so for me, it’s the usual opinion issue.

The reason MH was replaced in the first place was that he was making loads of mistakes. The ones I mention above were ones I remember at games I was at. There were also 2 or 3 in the Northampton game which is when I think Adams lost patience. A Spurs supporting friend of mine was at that game as he won some tickets. He said at the time that there wasn’t much between the sides but our keeper (MH) was very poor.

Halstead seems like a good guy and makes some good saves but he’s had enough chances to prove he’s good enough in L2. Sadly he’s not

As I said, as always, about opinion, and ours are different. Not interested, or any intention of trying to change yours. That’s footy.

I wouldn’t say that Halstead has made loads of mistakes, fair point about the Northampton away, missed a cross that went in, then flapped another straight into the path of Adams to score.
Yes their have been another couple of errors, but I do remember our beloved Baz fumbling a cross into his own net last season against Salford at home and being susceptible to the long shots fizzing in corners also.

Don’t think there was much that Turner could do about those two last night, as has been said,someone closing the ball down would maybe have helped, Alex K anyone?

It is a fair point re conceding from outside the box, all first three against Cambridge, the first at Crawley was also a humdinger and looked what happened there and again last night.

Regarding scoring from outside the box, short memories from all of us as Hendrie bagged from distance against Exeter a few weeks back, but I do concur it’s a rare occurrence!

It’s been a strange season. We were top not playing well but getting results early on, in recent weeks performances against Exeter, Stevenage, Scunthorpe and Salford have seen us play some good stuff but draw three and lose one when we have been arguably the better side in most.

Converting chances has been the difference, we could and should have won more, but we have been profligate in the box for me. But at least we are creating them. Maybe one game soon they will all go in, a bit like Cambridge against us, and we will batter someone??
Hope so!

Yet more evidence he can’t handle shots from outside the box

Same old story, nobody closing down the long shot and Turner doesn't handle it well. The goalkeeper's got to push that one away from goal at least

Surely Halstead is number one now? That's well and truly tipped it for me even if it was close before. At least Turner got a glove on today's opener from distance, but you've got to be doing better than that. Assume he injured himself in the process!?! Would be unlikley to sub a keeper for poor form with only 3 subs available in the competition.

Mark also makes a good save at 4-2 in extra time that I don't think Turner stops - tips a low shot heading for the bottom corner around the post.

Been told that both subs made at half time were tactical and NOT injuries

Find it very strange to sub Turner on form. Apart from the fumbled goal did he make any other mistakes?

black morse wrote:Find it very strange to sub Turner on form. Apart from the fumbled goal did he make any other mistakes?

Maybe it was, for want of better wording, the “final straw” for DA. On here, and the fb page, some fans having been asking questions about JT. It was going to need something “ pretty poor” that made DA’s mind up, and it was.

The fumble wasn't great, but doesn't bother me too much as Cranston does hit a ball very well and it moved pretty wickedly in the air.

The issue for was more that he should have pushed it further wide (should have clocked that the movement of the ball would make it hard to catch, so opted to punch wide), and then was a little slow getting back to his feet.

I have a feeling that a lot of it was to do with more longstanding issues. There were a few moments of indecisiveness between him and Lavelle/Davis, not too dissimilar to how we conceded our first against Exeter. Halstead doesn't sweep as much and generally sticks to his line, but the key is communication - making it clear to Lavelle/Davis that he's not coming, and that they need to clear. Regardless of whether a keeper is sweeping or staying on his line, the key is communication.

Thought Halstead was very good when he was called into action. Made a great catch from a corner, made a really important grab for the ball at the striker's feet that was excellent, and made a decent stop low to his left. Wouldn't surprise me to see him start on Tuesday now.

I wouldn't be surprised if WE call time to his loan.

The number of goals from shots both inside and outside his area suggest to me that he has a problem with stopping shots and when you look at the number of goals against from shots one has to question his ability at such a critical part of a goalkeepers game.

Towards the end of Baz's career he suffered a similar problem but not on the scale that Jake is currently experiencing.

As for a replacement, we can't do anything about a possible replacement until January so for me I'd be more than happy to give Mark the shirt to prove to DA that he is up to the challenge.

redrobo wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if WE call time to his loan.

The number of goals from shots both inside and outside his area suggest to me that he has a problem with stopping shots and when you look at the number of goals against from shots one has to question his ability at such a critical part of a goalkeepers game.

Towards the end of Baz's career he suffered a similar problem but not on the scale that Jake is currently experiencing.

As for a replacement, we can't do anything about a possible replacement until January so for me I'd be more than happy to give Mark the shirt to prove to DA that he is up to the challenge.

i would be surprised, i just think Turner will be replaced by Halstead who will get his chance, "play well you keep the shirt"

I wouldn't be surprised if Derek is looking for a new keeper in the January window.

Both the current keepers have different issues and Derek seems to have lost confidence in them.

Maybe Jake back to the Toon and Mark loaned out ?

Mark has been my preference, so glad to see he's being given another chance. I think he's a better shot-stopper. Could improve his punching the ball away better and not flap at clearances, and distribution could sometimes be quicker when needed. But I'm still happier with Mark as keeper.

I really hope Mark steps up, with his confidence back, and shows what he has really got in the locker. I was at the Vale away game a couple of seasons ago, and witnessed as good a display of keeping, that would not be out of place in the top leagues. Keeping the ball out.....number one priority.

Nothing is set in stone, and DA hasn't commented yet. Jake may well still start the next game, with a rocket up his 'arris. Mark coming on may well have been a warning about complacency, and upping his game

redrobo wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if WE call time to his loan.

I'd be very surprised if we cancelled Turners loan, he's one of two senior keepers that we have in the squad. Your opinion seems to have changed drastically to when I highlighted this stat about shot on target to goals conceded a few weeks ago!

Ultimately Turner has made one mistake, so far too early to be calling time on his career IMO. He's a young keeper that looks neat and tidy, but we do need to see him making some saves.

For me Mark must start on Tuesday. Hopefully he takes his opportunity, and if he doesn't Turner has to be ready... Like Mark was ready yesterday.