Bradford & Derek

[Keith]

We always knew that Derek would need instant success at Bradford otherwise the natives would turn on him, but come on lads, have some perspective!

Three appalling results in a row.

Can't understand why we have this clown managing us when Stuart is languishing as an assistant manager.

Adams may be ok at Mickey Mouse clubs but he's not up to the job at a massive club like Bradford City.

Okay, the majority of Bradford fans disagreed with this comment, but already? While sitting third in League Two? "Mickey Mouse clubs"? Does he mean us? A well run, financially stable, League One side?

[BerlinWaller]

Derekball isn't for everyone and as you can tell from comments on here he is marmite as a character. I fear for him at the mighty Bradford as their fans are deluded crack pots. I hope for Dereks sake that the powers that be there have their heads screwed on and don't react like the mob.

I noticed Songo'o was benched for yesterdays game.

[Shrimp Girl]

That's hilarious, if Derek got a 'mickey mouse club' into league one but (according to them) can't do it for BCFC, that makes Bradford less than a Mickey Mouse club. What would the be then? A Jimny Cricket club? An ant-from-tom-and-jerry club?

[Posh]

Derek had the easiest of rides he could have here with no fans for an entire season. While we would have supported him through thick and thin, who knows what the presence of home or opposition fans would have done to his thinking, if anything?

However at Bradford they will not accept failure and a run of say three defeats and they would be all over him. They were very lucky to beat Mansfield, then got badly beaten at Orient and then yesterday’s draw at home to a side with 10 men for most of the match, so there are signs that it’s not kicked in for him yet.

At least we can watch with a big smile on our face whichever way it goes.

[BerlinWaller]

Two or three posts on here have mentioned Derek doing well in a "Covid season" and the fact there were no fans helping him. Has anybody mentioned City or Liverpool winning the league with no fans or that it aided their Managers? I don't really get it.

[Bristol Shrimp]

To be fair a lot has been mentioned about lack of fans in the premier league and how it could have affected league positions and results, you just won't find that in here in a forum about Morecambe I guess.

[ianmcm]

It could be argued that Morecambe didn't *really* get going until December last year and had some highly indifferent early season results (Cambridge at home, Crawley away, for instance). What is for certain is that Adams will stick to his principles and that if BCFC are patient enough, those will likely see him alright. His teams aren't built for putting other sides under pressure and there doesn't seem to be a clear plan for creating more chances against a 10-man opposition so yesterday's failure to kill off an apparently resolute Walsall ought not to have been a massive surprise. The angry Bantams will just have to chill out.

[Posh]

Well said Bristol Shrimp. It has been widely mentioned at most clubs about how the absence of crowds has helped and hindered their clubs. So, as you’ve mentioned Liverpool here you go Waller.

Liverpool obviously had injury problems last season but were on a run of 68 games unbeaten at home. After some poor home performances they finally lost the run to Burnley and then went on a long string of home defeats. Funnily enough it was the subject of huge discussion:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.this ... -team/amp/

Even by the club themselves https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.live ... -home-form

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.inde ... html%3famp

So Liverpool did believe it had an impact

My point about Derek was that let’s say we were playing Bradford or Bolton away last season in front of 10,000 plus home fans and we went one down. Would that be easier or harder to come back from if there were no fans? Secondly, after the start of the season when we lost 5-0 and 7-0 at home in consecutive games, followed shortly by a 4-0 loss away at Crawley. Would that have been easier for Derek at Morecambe without fans in the ground? And how would those results have played out had he been manager at Bradford?

And evidence proves it did. Home wins across Europe dropped from 45% to 33% as ‘home advantage’ disappeared. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/rea ... out-25915/.

And there are bags more heavily researched pieces about it. https://www.freebetoffers.org.uk/how-no ... and-goals/.

However, no one can say sure how it would have affected us and frankly it doesn’t matter as we’re in League 1.

[P/T Indie]

I read one fan saying he wouldn't be surprised if Derek walked soon at Bradford something to do with disagreements on transfers.

[RedRedWine]

Can't see Derek going anywhere - he has a three year deal, which counts for a lot in the lower leagues.

Appreciate everything Derek did at Morecambe, and given time I think he will get the Bantams up into League One..... but it won't be pretty at times.

Some discussion about the lack of fans at games last season helping us (as in Morecambe FC, who cares about anything else?!?) - generally I think it did. For starters with the lowest playing budget to begin with, the gap that our club had to bridge between revenue (match day revenues drastically reduced for every club.... perhaps disproportionally for our competitors) and expense was the smallest in the division - giving us a unique opportunity to compete on more of a level playing field in player recruitment.

Secondly in the games themselves, even in the generally supportive environment here at Morecambe I'm not sure their would be rounds of applause had we lost at home employing the type of tactics that we did at times - which is seemingly already happening at Bradford. It's fine when you are getting results, but I think supporters would be less forgiving if you aren't getting results and don't appear to be proactive in attaining them - especially at home. We weren't the shithouse reds for nothing - even if we did revel in it at times! Thats not to say we didn't deserve promotion - we did, but went about it in a different way to most.

In a strange way, having initially been disappointed at losing Derek, I think the situation has actually worked out much better for us. I'm not sure the style we used last season would have translated into League One very well (didn't at Plymouth), where players are generally better on the ball.... hence you can't just let the opposition have it, then try and trap them into making mistakes in dangerous areas. As a result of Derek wanting to leave, we've landed a very talented manager in Stephen Robinson who has given the club a new and clear identity already.... and the football so far has been the best I have ever watched from a Morecambe outfit during my time as a fan home and away for the last 25 years or so.

You've got to complement the board for their recruitment of managers - but you do wonder what would have happened if people don't leave on their own accord!?! Jim Harvey is still the last manager to be sacked back in 2005, 15 years ago. Pretty remarkable that each appointment since then has been an improvement IMO..... even Jimbo, which some might disagree with; look at the team Sammy left behind - he'd lost the plot by then pissing away PMG money on the likes of Chris Shuker and Paul 'I've not come to Morecambe to play right back' Scott... yet we still offered him a new deal that he rejected.

[Little Shrimp]

Some good points being made on this thread. I think no fans had an effect on the style we played. I personally think it allowed the low possession tactics to be more exaggerated, so it will be interesting come the end of this season to compare some of our 20/21 possession stats with Bradford's 21/22 possession stats.

We also only lost consecutive league matches once throughout the season - this came in the first couple of months (FGR then Carlisle) when our form was a little more patchy. I think our fans are far more forgiving than most, but I do also wonder if no fans helped the players to more easily put the occasional bad performance/result into a wider context, rather than feel pressure from the fans to be doing things differently. Therefore, they'd be happy to keep plugging away in the style that they'd practiced under Adams.

I'm in agreement with RRW about Adams in League One. I think the playoff games actually give something of a warning shot. We played two of the better quality teams in the league (Tranmere and Newport) and sat back to grind out the result. Absolutely fine in one off playoff matches, but a tricky tactic to deploy throughout the whole season as you do eventually start playing the averages against yourself.

Also worth mentioning the pros and cons of Tranmere and Newport. Tranmere had some very good individuals but not a great deal of cohesion. Newport were a well coached possession side but lacked quality/cutting edge in the final third. In League One, we're playing more sides which have both these qualities - well coached/cohesive and higher quality players.

I think this current side under Robinson is still getting there - we need to be far better in the final third and show better conviction/bravery/decision making when attacking. But the foundations are good - we've shown some decent build up play on the ball and our shape has generally been good off it. Hopefully those final few steps will start to come on after this extra week of training and as the players gel more.

[P/T Indie]

We were found out in the second half at Wembley, if Derek was still here any team coming up against us just needed to see if you double up on Cole we were stuffed.

Luckily SR sees that and keeps trying to find alternatives to help him upfront.

[Posh]

What Stuart said.

[Wild Bill]

Don't really get this viewpoint of Derek. We were bottom of the league when he took over. With the budget of Bentley he then bought in some real quality and generally improved what we already had.

I watched more games last season than ever and I thought we improved throughout the campaign and played some of the best football I'd seen at MFC. All thanks to Derek

SR seems to have great potential but I will judge him by what he achieves over the next couple of seasons.

Along with Sammy MC Derek's our most successful manager of recent times. Neither seem to get the credit they deserve IMO, perhaps due to their aloof personalities.

[Posh]

I don't think there's much criticism of Derek Adams (and Sammy Mac for that matter) from anyone for what they achieved. In fact the opposite.

In politics some countries bring in a technocrat Prime Minister to bring order to chaos and deliver the basics. These are fairly grey dull civil servant types, who come in, do a job and leave. I think of Sammy Mac in that way, and in some ways with Derek. Derek was a genius who wasn't here to win a personality contest and shaped a side that he thought would get us progress and it worked. Didn't agree with Mellor over Cooney, or Slew over anyone, Turner over Halsted, but he wouldn't have changed it and it worked. I'm incredibly grateful. However, like Stuart, I think Stephen is a better long-term fit for the club and hope it works.

Sammy Mac bought players from a catalogue, had the highest agent's fees the club has ever had and had what players said was a terrible training regime. However, he took what we had, bolted on a few experienced players and got us to the promised land. He also got us into the L2 playoffs but the next season nearly got us relegated on a huge budget. Very grateful to him for doing the job but wasn't the right long-term manager.

[Keith]

Very grateful to him for doing the job but wasn't the right long-term manager.

Six seasons as manager wasn't a flash in the pan! I agree with your post otherwise

[Wild Bill]

Sammy did a great job for us. So many great matches and moments where when he managed us. Look also at what he did at Macclesfield. Hardly a bad CV at all. Harvey was popular with the fans but things had gone stale. Sammy did pretty much did what Derek did - came in, raised the bar and challenged players to be better. How Tommo improved under Sammy was pretty much identical to what Derek did with CMG. To take Morecambe into the league and reach the L2 playoffs was was a fantastic achievement. Sure, he had one poor season at the end but with the delays to the Globe pretty much wiping out pre-season it was always going to be difficult.

With SR, he feels like a good fit, however if successful I can't see him staying too long. I think long term managers are generally a thing of the past but let's hope we get at least two good seasons from him and MFC get seen as a great springboard to build a career from.