Shrimpsvoices

I cannot believe certain supporters are being so negative about our manager, the same manager that got us promoted and the same manager that kept us in league one when the previous manager left less than six months after signing a three year contract. REALITY CHECK..... the club has no money, we are broke, we cannot go out and spend silly money on quality league one players, we cannot spend silly money paying league one salaries. Derek has a squad of players who are, in the majority, league two standard. Also, it's not his squad, he inherited a squad of players he did not want. If you want to watch multi million pound players playing like Brazil go and watch Arsenal (or Brazil). We are a small club playing in league one, there are bigger clubs than us both financially and support size playing non-league football. If we get relegated this season I will be disappointed but I will not lose any sleep over it. However, if we ever drop out of the football league I would be devastated because we would never get back in. I would extend Derek's contract now, not sack him, he has the ability and management skills to keep us in the league, give him time to build a squad of players he wants with the ability to play the way he wants them to play. Support Derek, support the players we have and support the club.

Refreshing. I thought I was the only one left!

BHmfc wrote:I cannot believe certain supporters are being so negative about our manager, the same manager that got us promoted and the same manager that kept us in league one when the previous manager left less than six months after signing a three year contract. REALITY CHECK..... the club has no money, we are broke, we cannot go out and spend silly money on quality league one players, we cannot spend silly money paying league one salaries. Derek has a squad of players who are, in the majority, league two standard. Also, it's not his squad, he inherited a squad of players he did not want. If you want to watch multi million pound players playing like Brazil go and watch Arsenal (or Brazil). We are a small club playing in league one, there are bigger clubs than us both financially and support size playing non-league football. If we get relegated this season I will be disappointed but I will not lose any sleep over it. However, if we ever drop out of the football league I would be devastated because we would never get back in. I would extend Derek's contract now, not sack him, he has the ability and management skills to keep us in the league, give him time to build a squad of players he wants with the ability to play the way he wants them to play. Support Derek, support the players we have and support the club.

I am with you BHMFC on this.

I don't think some of the fans realise how tight money is at the club. They see teams like Watford sacking and paying off managers on a regular basis but those teams are owned by billionaires who can afford such pay-offs.

We have a squad about 10 less than Robinson had at a similar stage last season. 2 of our best forward players, Hunter and Taylor, have been out injured for about 3 months. Our top striker who had about 12 goals at this time last season has zero to his name so far and he isn't breaking sweat to help us.

We need the club to be sold soon to someone who can chip in to the playing budget and then in January Derek and his recruitment manager can look for some decent players to pull us up the division.

BHmfc wrote:I cannot believe certain supporters are being so negative about our manager...

I can't believe our manager is so negative about our football.

We started with six defenders against Sheffield Wednesday and never really looked like scoring. That worked so well, he started with six defenders against Milton Keynes. At 2-0 down last night, he took our leading goal-scorer off, and replaced him with a defensive midfielder, who has never scored a senior goal in his career. That's the negativity that winds me up.

Last night was a fantastic opportunity to reach the last 16 of the League Cup and the odds of drawing a big club were in our favour. We were playing one of the other clubs who are in the relegation zone with us, yet we made them look fantastic... ...for the second time this season.

How many games have we had zero shots on target this season? Even Tiverton managed one shot on target against Milton Keynes.

I agree with everything you say about size of club and lack of money. If we're going to go down, so be it. But for goodness sake, let's set up to TRY and win games, not simply, only lose by a small margin. Six defenders in a cup game against the team one place above us in the league?

Derek says Milton Keynes are a "really good" team. No, he set us up to make them look good.

Not often I agree with Keith but in the above post he's spot on.

We are so negative in our game that I worry for our survival in EFL1 and what would follow in EFL2.

SVers know my views on DA and the future so I'll not need to repeat myself BUT I do respect those who have an opposite view point.

Got to agree with Keith on this one. We did the exact same against Cambridge and Burton where we took off attackers and replaced them with defensive midfielders. I'm embarrased to say i listned to i follow last night, initially the home commentary and that was so dismall i put the away commentary on and fell asleep, waking up at half time. i didn't bother listening to the rest. One shot off target in the 91st minute. It's hardly entertainment.

Derek had no money to bring in players he wanted in Summer. He was reliant on the ones contracted by Robbo to get themselves new clubs to release money. Only a small number went. He's basically left with the rump of the litter and is trying his best to get something out of them.

Yes, massive mistake not to let Cole go for a pittance in the Summer, but Cole is supposed to be a professional and is ignoring his contractual obligation to play for the club to the best of his abilities. If we'd have let Cole go, then there'd be the budget for another decent striker, but that's history now.

Yes, some of the players signed by Derek aren't up to standard (Love in particular) but it was all he could afford (one in, one out remember). Probably also a mistake for Derek to sign Arthur for another year rather than letting him go and using the money for someone else, but for the last half of last season, Arthur was pretty good and chipping in with the odd goal - we've seen nothing of his skills and abilities this season, hence being benched most of the time.

Getting rid of Derek will achieve nothing. The new manager won't have any money either and will have the same group of players as Derek.

Derek has a lot of players who are injured and unfit (long term AND short term), which dictates the team he can put out. People go on about too many defensive players, but if that's all he has got who are fit and willing to put the effort in, then he has to play them - better that than playing with only 9 or 10 men!

Players like Obika simply have nothing to offer, so pointless playing them unless absolutely necessary. Mayor and Connolly aren't fit enough for 90 minutes and 3 games in 8 days, so he has to "manage" their time carefully to get the best out of them. Arthur is totally out of form at the moment. Less said about Stockton the better.

I'm confident we'll see a major improvement once Hunter and Taylor are back - both are massive losses at the moment. We are severely lacking in the midfield and attack, hence playing the ones we have who are better placed to warm the bench. A midfield/forward force of Hunter, Taylor, Weir, Phillips, Mayor, Shaw and we'll be scoring for fun. Fane and O'Connor are only on the pitch because there's no one else!

Agree with the above! Has there been any news on when those two are back?

We were never going to win the FA cup, we were never going to win the League cup, our (Derek's priority) is to stay in league one. In reality, did anyone really think we would go to Sheffield and get a result. I set off to Sheffield on Friday with the honest expectation of losing, and we did. I didn't go last night and the result did not surprise me, MK Dons are the best team I have seen in the league this season, they will not be fighting relegation at the end of the season. Maybe Derek took Philips off when we were two-nil down because the game was lost and maybe he was saving him for our league game on Saturday. For me personally,the game on Saturday is more important than the two previous cup games. Reality Check time again...... Morecambe v Portsmouth, League Division One, Saturday 12th November. PS I was at Burton when Fane came on at half time and for me and people sitting around me he changed the game into our favour. He unsettled the Burton players, he was winning the 50-50 challanges and doing the dirty side of football, something we were not doing in the first half. It might have appeared to be a negative substitution but it turned out to be massively positive.

Keith wrote:

BHmfc wrote:I cannot believe certain supporters are being so negative about our manager...

I can't believe our manager is so negative about our football.

We started with six defenders against Sheffield Wednesday and never really looked like scoring. That worked so well, he started with six defenders against Milton Keynes. At 2-0 down last night, he took our leading goal-scorer off, and replaced him with a defensive midfielder, who has never scored a senior goal in his career. That's the negativity that winds me up.

Last night was a fantastic opportunity to reach the last 16 of the League Cup and the odds of drawing a big club were in our favour. We were playing one of the other clubs who are in the relegation zone with us, yet we made them look fantastic... ...for the second time this season.

How many games have we had zero shots on target this season? Even Tiverton managed one shot on target against Milton Keynes.

I agree with everything you say about size of club and lack of money. If we're going to go down, so be it. But for goodness sake, let's set up to TRY and win games, not simply, only lose by a small margin. Six defenders in a cup game against the team one place above us in the league?

Derek says Milton Keynes are a "really good" team. No, he set us up to make them look good.

Derek has his hands tied behind his back. His 2 star midfielders (Taylor and Hunter) are out injured probably back in December. His 26 goal striker is dreaming of playing in front of 2,400 at Fleetwood in January , another striker is out for the season and then he is out of contract. Several of the players that Derek wanted to leave are still here although Delaney and lately Cooney have been showing they want to put shifts in.

With the players available a very cagey game is the only way to go but Derek is the best bet to preserve our League 1 status.

Keith wrote:How many games have we had zero shots on target this season? Even Tiverton managed one shot on target against Milton Keynes.

I think that says more about how good Tiverton must be than how poor we are because Milton Keynes were playing Taunton at the time

Martin wrote:

Keith wrote:How many games have we had zero shots on target this season? Even Tiverton managed one shot on target against Milton Keynes.

I think that says more about how good Tiverton must be than how poor we are because Milton Keynes were playing Taunton at the time

Good point!

KenH wrote:Fane and O'Connor are only on the pitch because there's no one else!

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that at 2-0 down in a cup game, Fane offered a better chance of getting a goal, than Obika or Gnahoua. Fane was never going to get, or create a goal. Even if the aim was to save Phillips, then that simply shows that Derek had thrown in the towel with half an hour left.

Six defenders?

IMHO, I think you are best served by keeping Derek, for all he has done for your club.

As fans we all want to make Quantum leaps in development, we look at our rivals fighting at the top of whichever league and we are missing out. I at the moment am in the same boat but not a fan of our Manager so I am a bit twisted.

What you have to be able to do and easier from the outside looking in, is look at what you have achieved under DA, more than near enough any team in the league and definitely on your own in achievement with the budget. Every club that achieves in a short period do so by chucking money at it.

I still think you will be ok, there is a window on the horizon and you are not a million miles away. You have to be pragmatic and winning ugly is still winning and I think you are close to getting the balance right.

Imaginary scenarios...

If a team drew every match 0-0, then ignoring truncated Covid season 19-20 and going back to 05-06
season, apart from last season 21-22, that team would have been relegated all other years.
A goal difference of zero and 46 points.

If a team worked on a Robinson type system and every five matches won 2 by 1-0 and lost the other 3
by 5-0 they would never have been relegated.
A goal difference of minus 117 and 54 points with one match to play.

Currently..
..in the Championship Blackburn have won 12 and lost 8 of 20 matches. They are 2nd.
..in Lge 1 Peterborough have lost 6 and are 4th..we have lost only 8 but 22nd.

From my point of view I would like to see us giving it a go at 1 or 2 down even if we end up
losing by 3 or 4. I appreciate we are waiting for the return of a few key players, but hopefully
the mind set of the team will then be more positive.

On another thought...watching the FA Cup matches at weekend, I thought some of the 'bigger' clubs
seemed to give their non-league opposition more respect than they give us. Is that because they are wary of being on the wrong end of an upset or is it because they think we are not going to be much of a threat ?

Alan wrote:Imaginary scenarios...

If a team drew every match 0-0, then ignoring truncated Covid season 19-20 and going back to 05-06
season, apart from last season 21-22, that team would have been relegated all other years.
A goal difference of zero and 46 points.

If a team worked on a Robinson type system and every five matches won 2 by 1-0 and lost the other 3
by 5-0 they would never have been relegated.
A goal difference of minus 117 and 54 points with one match to play.

Currently..
..in the Championship Blackburn have won 12 and lost 8 of 20 matches. They are 2nd.
..in Lge 1 Peterborough have lost 6 and are 4th..we have lost only 8 but 22nd.

From my point of view I would like to see us giving it a go at 1 or 2 down even if we end up
losing by 3 or 4. I appreciate we are waiting for the return of a few key players, but hopefully
the mind set of the team will then be more positive.

On another thought...watching the FA Cup matches at weekend, I thought some of the 'bigger' clubs
seemed to give their non-league opposition more respect than they give us. Is that because they are wary of being on the wrong end of an upset or is it because they think we are not going to be much of a threat ?

Robinson's 5 match system looked good early on when we were winning a few but he only won 3 out of his last 23 EFL matches in charge.

Gone_Shrimping wrote:

Alan wrote:If a team worked on a Robinson type system and every five matches won 2 by 1-0 and lost the other 3
by 5-0 they would never have been relegated.

Robinson's 5 match system looked good early on when we were winning a few but he only won 3 out of his last 23 EFL matches in charge.

I used the 'Robinson system' as an statistical example rather than a recommendation.

Trouble with attacking football and losing by more than 1 or 2 goals is goal difference. We've survived relegation a few times now solely due to goal difference, so it's not something to be blase about.

Catte wrote:IMHO, I think you are best served by keeping Derek, for all he has done for your club.

As fans we all want to make Quantum leaps in development, we look at our rivals fighting at the top of whichever league and we are missing out. I at the moment am in the same boat but not a fan of our Manager so I am a bit twisted.

What you have to be able to do and easier from the outside looking in, is look at what you have achieved under DA, more than near enough any team in the league and definitely on your own in achievement with the budget. Every club that achieves in a short period do so by chucking money at it.

I still think you will be ok, there is a window on the horizon and you are not a million miles away. You have to be pragmatic and winning ugly is still winning and I think you are close to getting the balance right.

I agree with this Bolton fan on this subject , more than I agree with some of our dedicated and long serving fans. Like it or not DA is actually our most successful manager ever, having taken league 2 relegation favourites and getting them promoted. He then returned when we were rapidly going down and managed to keep us up. I'd like to know another manager who can work the miracles he has done on the budget he has?

For those who want to go out and attack, attack, attack I would ask the following question. What with? By far our most effective striker is Phillips, a young loanee. Admirably supported by Weir from midfield, yet another young loanee.They are pulling their tripe out game after game and doing a cracking job week in week out but they can't do it on their own! OK you say, we have contracted professionals who can be drafted in to do the attacking duties. REALLY! Duffus is out for the season and I wouldn't pay Obika, Gnahoua or Stockton in washers based on their performances this season. All three have been powderpuff and well off the pace with seemingly little prospect of change. If anyone thinks we can go on the attack with this trio you are suffering from delusions. Not one is capable of retaining the ball and it would come wanging back at us so fast we wouldn't know what had hit us.

So what can Derek do with both hands and one leg tied behind his back? That's right, defend and try and snatch goals on the break then hang on for unexpected victories. Anyone who thinks sacking him is the solution to the problem is dreaming. We can't afford to sack managers and if anyone can perform miracles then it's him as he has proved in the past.

UTS.

Keith wrote:

Martin wrote:

Keith wrote:How many games have we had zero shots on target this season? Even Tiverton managed one shot on target against Milton Keynes.

I think that says more about how good Tiverton must be than how poor we are because Milton Keynes were playing Taunton at the time

Good point!

KenH wrote:Fane and O'Connor are only on the pitch because there's no one else!

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that at 2-0 down in a cup game, Fane offered a better chance of getting a goal, than Obika or Gnahoua. Fane was never going to get, or create a goal. Even if the aim was to save Phillips, then that simply shows that Derek had thrown in the towel with half an hour left.

Six defenders?

You seem to be forgetting that after going 1 down DA brought on Connolly and Mayor for O'Connor and Delaney after 20 mins.....how is that not an attacking move?
So far as the Fane substitution is concerned by then we were 2 down and DA must have considered the game was beyond our grasp. I'm sure that most of us felt the same? He couldn't afford to lose Phillips to injury as he needs at least one striker for the league battles ahead. Not a negative move just a realistic one.

Some fans saying that Robinson only won 5 games from 23 but at least his football was quite decent

Adams since he came back has only won 6 games from 36 i think (and apart from the odd game his football his defensive, drab and negative)

If thinks don`t change quickly we will be cut adrift by xmas and it won`t matter if we have money to spend in january or not it will be far too late

Can anyone really see this current team making up a gap of say 9 / 10 points because i certainly can`t

black morse wrote:So far as the Fane substitution is concerned by then we were 2 down and DA must have considered the game was beyond our grasp. I'm sure that most of us felt the same? He couldn't afford to lose Phillips to injury as he needs at least one striker for the league battles ahead. Not a negative move just a realistic one.

Starting with six defenders, then changing after twenty minutes is at least an admission that it was wrong in the first place, so hopefully, that's the last we'll see of that approach.

Gnahoua & Obika were on the bench. Regardless of what people think of them, either would have had a far greater chance of getting, or creating a goal than Fane. Throwing in the towel with half an hour to go?

PS. I'm not calling for Derek to be sacked. But. I would like him to recognise that the current approach isn't working, so try something else before it is too late.

None of our attacking players were creating any kind of threat. Maybe he brought Fane on because he felt the reason we couldn't get the ball up the pitch was because of an issue in the midfield? Not that it particularly worked but if he'd brought Obika or Arthur on I doubt either would have even touched the ball.

vvm wrote:None of our attacking players were creating any kind of threat. Maybe he brought Fane on because he felt the reason we couldn't get the ball up the pitch was because of an issue in the midfield? Not that it particularly worked but if he'd brought Obika or Arthur on I doubt either would have even touched the ball.

In that case, the criticism would have been of the players, not the manager. Stockton clearly can't be arsed playing for us. He's the one getting stick for his performances (or lack of), not Derek. If Gnahoua or Obika were on the pitch and not trying, or, simply not good enough, then fair enough. As I said before, six defenders? In a cup match against a team one place above us in the league? Even Milton Keynes commentators were laughing at us.

Agree with the sentiments of the OP. I think Derek sacrificed the cups, so let's see how we perform Saturday. We've picked up a bit in the league but we need a few wins still until we get Hunter and Co back to give us a fighting chance.

It's history now.

Tomorrow is the most important game this season so far. If recent lessons of playing a negative formation have been learned, and Morecambe can at least replicate the Barnsley and Derby performances then those of us who are at The Mazuma should be in for a treat, albeit probably a nail biting treat. But the 12th man on the terraces and sat in the stand have got to do their bit until the fat lady sings.