Shrimpsvoices

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

Wow! Another £1.2 million LOSS!

£275k of interest paid - thanks Jason you idiot!

Loss financed by even more borrowings.

Shop sales up, but football, corporate and hospitality sales all down.

Company now owes over £2million in debt/loans.

We're in deep doo-doo!

These make grim reading especially for the coming year in terms of money needed.So do they own the mazuma as a leasehold .Expensive operation running a club with over 200 emplyees

Now is the time to make a united stand. I know it's the hardest thing as a supporter but Jason cannot be allowed to make a ridiculous amount of money from a club on its knee's.

Hodgie1978 wrote:Now is the time to make a united stand. I know it's the hardest thing as a supporter but Jason cannot be allowed to make a ridiculous amount of money from a club on its knee's.

100%

Hodgie1978 wrote:Now is the time to make a united stand. I know it's the hardest thing as a supporter but Jason cannot be allowed to make a ridiculous amount of money from a club on its knee's.

There isn't anything that we can do "now", without harming the club's Football League position. He has us over a barrel at the moment. He's a twat. I hope it comes back to bite him on the arse eventually.

This is not a very good read. The future looks very bleak. Big debts, possible relegation which will reduce even more the clubs income, and a owner who really doent give a s#it..it seems to get worse week on week.

As long as he is the owner he is going to continue to do this and as Keith says there is nothing we can do now that will not harm the Club, because it’s legitimate. As I have posted on here before there are plenty of owners who do it. The EFL won’t act as it’s within there rules.

I have advocated this practice of borrowing money to loan to the football Club at a higher interest rate than they have borrowed the money should be outlawed. (If it’s their own money out of their own pocket that’s still not great but reluctantly acceptable).

The practice of borrowing money to run a Club, even at a loss, (like Jason),shows they are not in a position to sustain the Club without it. Now if they were new prospective owners their bid would fail, so why not when they are the owners?

Again I’m still stumped as to coming up with an idea to get us out of this mess, that won’t irreversibly do harm to the Club.

Billy bodger wrote:Now if they were new prospective owners their bid would fail, so why not when they are the owners?

Because the EFL have no legal powers to 'take' the asset from the owner. They can stop the purchase, but after that, they are very limited.

Keith wrote:

Billy bodger wrote:Now if they were new prospective owners their bid would fail, so why not when they are the owners?

Because the EFL have no legal powers to 'take' the asset from the owner. They can stop the purchase, but after that, they are very limited.

Stinks then, especially as it is for all to see it only harms the Club. He’s not selling is he making that kind of money off our back.

That’s well over a £Million now isn’t it??

Every time pressure ramps up from fans he comes out in the media.
We've got to keep his name in the spotlight.
Fans should ask Jason to front up and come to the football club to answer questions from the fans.
If he doesn't then we take it to his town.
I can't imagine he'd enjoy 100 Morecambe fans turning up

Hodgie1978 wrote:Every time pressure ramps up from fans he comes out in the media.
We've got to keep his name in the spotlight.
Fans should ask Jason to front up and come to the football club to answer questions from the fans.
If he doesn't then we take it to his town.
I can't imagine he'd enjoy 100 Morecambe fans turning up

I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. It was partly done with the 1920 Union having gone in that direction with the flyers they posted earlier. I can understand that The Trust are reluctant to get involved in getting involved in action around Jason's home for legal reasons but the 1920 Union might be able to organise it. Careful contact with the police would probably be essential.

I have very little knowledge of accountancy or big business but why can't the club borrow money at a lower rate than that which Jason is charging? Is it just that we are very high risk?

black morse wrote:I have very little knowledge of accountancy or big business but why can't the club borrow money at a lower rate than that which Jason is charging? Is it just that we are very high risk?

You've probably answered your own question there.
Would you lend money to a company that is losing about 20k per week?

I've seen somewhere on the socials that the interest rate must be nearly 17%.

Just found this article from 2019, it mentions Morecambe FC and talks about change in relation to Football Club Owners.
The then Chairman Ian Lenagan in 2018 talked about the changes that were supposed to protect Clubs from owners who persistently failed to meet standards expected of them in running a football club. (Lenagan stepped down soon afterwards).
Unfortunately in 2019 the then Chief Executive, Shaun Harvey said, “It is purely an objective test and that’s as far as it goes, it offers no view on skill or ability, it offers no view on judgement” (what the…..!!!).
Harvey went on to say in an interview with TalkSoprt “ Often the only choice is a bad owner over no owner at all” (triple what the….!!!)

So seven Chairpersons later and it must still be ‘objective, with no view on skill or ability’ and a ‘bad owner is must be better than no owner’ to the EFL.

So no change on the horizon, owners and the EFL who run the game and shame the game and Clubs like Morecambe are dragged down.


Read the full article @ (sorry no link ).
https://www.football365.com/news/unfit- ... gue-owners

black morse wrote:I have very little knowledge of accountancy or big business but why can't the club borrow money at a lower rate than that which Jason is charging? Is it just that we are very high risk?

Interest rates vary according to security and risk. The club is clearly very high risk given the losses it's making. The "security" of the leasehold land and buildings is already used via legal charges for existing loans. Because the club doesn't "own" the land (it's held by the JBC trust with restrictive covenants), it's not really worth much as security. The buildings are likewise only "worth" anything to someone wanting to run an unprofitable football club so again not really worth much on the open market. Not much else you can do with stands overlooking a field! The bar, shop, hospitality suite and boxes "could" be worth something if sold/rented for other uses, i.e. offices, GP surgery, restaurant, warehouse, etc., but value is limited to useable square footage, so not too much. I'd guess that the "value" of the land owned by the club and value of rentable options for buildings etc owned by the club would be pretty much the amount of the debt/loans already in place, say a couple of million, so not really any scope to increase borrowings as lenders would need more security, and it explains the high interest - no "normal" lender like a bank would lend much (if anything) on such a convoluted and risky proposition and any that would lend would be charging a high premium of interest for risk etc.

It's entirely why PMG separated a tranche of land and buildings, i.e. the artificial pitches and the gym/community building into a separate company, so that he could borrow against them as security through a "normal" bank. When the club stopped paying the repayments, that's when the bank put PMG leisure into receivership.

All other parcels of land have already been sold off, so nothing left of those to use as security as the club doesn't own them anymore. (Maybe there is one bit left, but probably already being used as security/guarantee for loans).

We really are at the end-game, both on and off the pitch. It's come from at least a decade, maybe 15 years of losses and selling off assets, and the time does come when there's just nothing left.

KenH wrote:It's entirely why PMG separated a tranche of land and buildings, i.e. the artificial pitches and the gym/community building into a separate company, so that he could borrow against them as security through a "normal" bank. When the club stopped paying the repayments, that's when the bank put PMG leisure into receivership.

All other parcels of land have already been sold off, so nothing left of those to use as security as the club doesn't own them anymore. (Maybe there is one bit left, but probably already being used as security/guarantee for loans).

We really are at the end-game, both on and off the pitch. It's come from at least a decade, maybe 15 years of losses and selling off assets, and the time does come when there's just nothing left.

This really pisses me off. When the move was sold to us as fans at the time, it was promised that all the money raised from the sale would remain within ‘the Christie Trust’, so the value of the Trust remains the same. In reality, the value of the Christie Trust now, is vastly reduced compared to Christie Park. Total screw up.

Owners Eh!!
The line ‘Jason wants to sell’ and we are 900+ days down the line is proving what sort of owner he is. It’s just as the Chief executive of the EFL back in 2019 said, it’s often a bad owner or no owner. Well, I already came round to the conclusion we cannot continue with Jason as the owner after this season is over, many months ago.
So the question is how do we force him to sell?
As you all probably know I have been vocal against the Club going into administration especially now, while there is a chance of staying in the league.
But after listening to people and drawing on comments on here and thinking it through it may be the only option for Morecambe FC to get rid of him as the owner.
Yesterday’s accounts for me says we are slowly heading that way, any way, as long as Jason is still the owner.
How long can we keep getting loans to limit and it's only limit the losses we now occurring year on year.
How much it costs to run a EFL club has spiralled out of control and Morecambe cannot get the revenue it needs to be competitive or break even.
The alternative to administration is Jason being the owner and for us to fall naturally down the football pyramid to a level we can comfortably function at. It is a questionable scenario which would mean we could even sustain being in the National League. Receipts then would dramatically fall even further.
Jason could remain for some time yet as the prospective buyers cannot produce the evidence required to pass the are fit and proper persons to buy a Club. We may be just getting another bad Owner!!
So, Do I want us to keep in the EFL? Yes.
Do I want rid of Jason? Yes
Is administration a viable (only) alternative to get rid of Jason? Reluctantly it’s looking like it.
Would a lower League be better for Morecambe FC to function in? Well as long as we keep having bad owners I don’t think it matters where we are in the football pyramid, we will struggle.
Will we ever get a good owners? Doesn’t look like it.

Keith wrote:This really pisses me off. When the move was sold to us as fans at the time, it was promised that all the money raised from the sale would remain within ‘the Christie Trust’, so the value of the Trust remains the same. In reality, the value of the Christie Trust now, is vastly reduced compared to Christie Park. Total screw up.

The JBC Trust was basically just the field. All the buildings, infrastructure, etc put on the Christie Park field were paid for and owned by MFC Limited. Two completely different legal entities.

Same now. The JBC Trust own a field, but it's a different field. MFC Ltd used the money from the sale of CP to pay for replacement infrastructure, buildings, equipment, etc., So it's like for like really. A lot of the Sainsbury monies were for compensation for disruption, to pay for the new infrastructure and buildings to be built on Westgate etc. Basically the proceeds were split into two, one for the JBC trust to pay for a new "field" and the other for MFC Ltd to build a new stadium etc.

At the time, the legalities were done to ensure "like for like" so that the split of the proceeds and what it was used to fund/buy were in the right proportions to what we had before.

The legal distinction between different legal entities can be hard to understand, but it's fundamentally important. It's similar to Morecambe and Heysham golf clubs, where the council own the land, but each golf club limited company paid for and owns the buildings on that land. If either are ever sold, the proceeds would likewise be split, one part to the council, the other part to the relevant golf club limited company, split not only according to land value, but also building value, compensation for disruption, etc.

It was never said during the CP sale that the JBC Trust would own the entirety of the new site.

IN fact it's a damn good job that some of the land was owned by MFC Limited as at least we had something to sell a decade ago when things started going wrong, otherwise the club would have gone into receivership/administration a lot sooner as it needed to sell land to cover the losses.

The fact that it was all a foul up, start to finish, with the move, was entirely down to PMG and MD who screwed it up, lost control, over spent, and made a number of crazy decisions. With proper management and control, it could, and should, have given the club a bright future. Serious mistakes made 15 years ago have caused where we are today!

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the land adjacent to the Hurley Flyer still owned by the club or at least by a former Director(s)......

If so maybe that is where any new owner of the club could develop as a cash cow for the club.

I seem to recall a few years ago that it was mentioned to have a hotel built on it..ie something along the lines of Premier but again I could be wrong.....

That land has been earmarked for a fanzone/ car park. It was gonna be a joint project with the Shrimps Trust. 150k was the quoted price. It has understandably been put on hold.

redrobo wrote:I seem to recall a few years ago that it was mentioned to have a hotel built on it..ie something along the lines of Premier but again I could be wrong.....

The permission for the hotel was the land the new house has just been built on.
The Hurley land had permission for an eatery/restaurant, all this is history and now down the pan.

As Hodgie says, the sliver on the other side is earmarked for a fanzone but many will be in the adjacent garden before anything comes to fruition no doubt

KenH wrote:The JBC Trust was basically just the field. All the buildings, infrastructure, etc put on the Christie Park field were paid for and owned by MFC Limited. Two completely different legal entities.

I appreciate that, but I thought (perhaps incorrectly?) that the Christie Trust owned all the land, ie pitch and inside the ground, the car park and the land that the Auxiliary Club was built upon. That was a massive amount of land. The buildings were worthless. Okay, yes, some of that money was needed for redeveloping, but it looks like a huge amount of land has been exchanged for a very small patch, and the rest of the value has been waisted/lost/hived off.

Keith wrote:

KenH wrote:The JBC Trust was basically just the field. All the buildings, infrastructure, etc put on the Christie Park field were paid for and owned by MFC Limited. Two completely different legal entities.

I appreciate that, but I thought (perhaps incorrectly?) that the Christie Trust owned all the land, ie pitch and inside the ground, the car park and the land that the Auxiliary Club was built upon. That was a massive amount of land. The buildings were worthless. Okay, yes, some of that money was needed for redeveloping, but it looks like a huge amount of land has been exchanged for a very small patch, and the rest of the value has been waisted/lost/hived off.

https://shrimpstrust.co.uk/jb-christie-trust/

This plan shows the land owned by the Christie Trust.

Keith wrote:

KenH wrote:The JBC Trust was basically just the field. All the buildings, infrastructure, etc put on the Christie Park field were paid for and owned by MFC Limited. Two completely different legal entities.

I appreciate that, but I thought (perhaps incorrectly?) that the Christie Trust owned all the land, ie pitch and inside the ground, the car park and the land that the Auxiliary Club was built upon. That was a massive amount of land. The buildings were worthless. Okay, yes, some of that money was needed for redeveloping, but it looks like a huge amount of land has been exchanged for a very small patch, and the rest of the value has been waisted/lost/hived off.

Old Man Kensey beat me to this above.

Just to add into words what the Trust covers:

The land tied to the Mazuma Stadium under the JB Christie Trust includes more than just the pitch itself—it encompasses the entire stadium site and some surrounding area.

The trust’s freehold covers the footprint of the stadium, which includes the stands, facilities, and immediate infrastructure like the car park that’s part of the match-day setup.

When Christie Park was sold and the trust’s assets shifted to Westgate, the deal was structured to ensure the new site could fully support a football club, not just a lone field. The 125-year lease Morecambe FC holds is for the "stadium site," a term that implies the whole operational area, not just the grass where the goals stand.