Shrimpsvoices

From the Accy in trouble thread:

"begging bowls are well and truly out for us now!!!!!

anyroad, Bury fans have organised a mass visit to our ground for our FRIDAY night game against Darlo (SEPTEMBER 11). This is borne out of a kinship developed 9 years ago when we, as lower league, organised a benefit game when they were in trouble. This has never been forgotten by Bury or their fans and they are returning the favour. Currently they are expecting a minimum of 200 fans to come along (wearing Bury colours) to help boost the gate a little. Bury fans are trying to publicise for other clubs to join in as well in a show of lower league solidarity and have the BBC and Channel M giving them assistance.

I know you owe us nowt (except maybe Paul Mullin back please) but if any of you want to join them you will be made more than welcome. Please wear your colours as well, because we'd like to thank every single one of you."


Anyone up for this??

If (after checking with my boss at home) I've nothing else on I'd be more than happy to have a trip down and give them some backing, they've lent us a bit of support in the past.

True, they came to CP in the playoffs and helped create probably the best Christie park atmosphere i've ever seen and heard (giant flags included).
I may just go if a good few are interested.

im interested, sounds like fun

shrimper wrote:Anyone up for this??

Yep I'm in. Will the stewards at Accy know there will be fans in various team shirts heading for the Crown on 9/11

The postcode collectors will have a field day

IF I can get the same night off next week as this you can count me in, going to Stanley and not coming away totally deflated will be a first

Me and Crooky MFC are interested in attending. Will anybody be able to give us a lift and we will happily share petrol?

Thanks, please PM me and i'll give you my contact details.

thanks Shrimper for moving this to its own thread.

and also thanks to any Morecambe fans who have intimated they may come. I posted on the Bury forum that it would be best for them to sit in the Clayton End as there are a lot of them and they want to sit together. Its up to you guys whether you all want to be together, stood or seated etc. If anyone wants to nominate themselves as 'organiser' (if there are a goodly number) then I can liase with you on the night and make sure the stewards are aware that ALL Morecambe will be in the ......

and also thanks to the PM's received pledging a bit of dosh whether you are coming or not. I will try to respond to each one tomorrow.

Supporter Solidarity. These times will not be forgotten.

Count me in its not always about the football, will have 3 spare seats if anybody wants a lift PM me.

Better remove this thread, if Accy win those that go might never return back to CP

I don't quite understand this love for Accy. Why is it OK to screw the tax man? I like the official statement

Accrington Stanley has today launched Save our Stanley, the official campaign to raise money to satisfy HM Revenue and Customs demand for £308,000 in just under eight weeks.

Demand? HMRC are only asking for what should have been paid already. Money every one else has to pay, me & you included. Every penny they took in, they knew how much of it would be needed to cover HMRC's bill but they chose to spend it instead. It means they survived last season on money they shouldn't have had. It might have paid for the seats they needed to stay in the league. If we are relegated with Accy just above us, how will you feel then?

I look forward to a decent explanation and maybe a reason why no one offered to help Chester pay their tax bill.

What's that old saying? Something along the lines of 'there's only 2 things you can't avoid, death and the taxman'.

I fully understand where you're coming from Brian but we're not talking about how it's obviously been mishandled at the top
For me it's about old fashioned traditions and those poor souls at the bottom of the pile...............................The paying fans who love that club to the point of hocking their own possessions in order to keep it afloat whatever the cost, fundraising, even lowering themselves to ask others for help etc etc

It's only by the prudent ways of our backers and the grace of god that we stay afloat in these very difficult times .........................................Let's not cast the first stone but try to show some support and humility in what has become a serious situation for our local neighbours.

It's not very often that Brian and I agree about things but in this case 'we are one'.....

Accy knew that they would have to pay the taxman sooner or later. Now maybe it's not the fault of the present regime, but tha fact remains that you and I and millions of others have to pay our taxes no matter what.

Somebody commented on the radio last night that companies are pounced on as soon as tax is overdue. Maybe part of the fault lies with the tax people for treating Accy and other sporting clubs far too softly. But we can't escape the fact that money was due and they decided not to pay it.

What i do find particularly annoying is the blatant disreguard for not undertaking the agreed monthly payments that only a few months ago had been agreed with the tax office.

I feel sorry for the fans who as always are the ones to suffer. But the club brought this upon themselves by a sheer disreguard for the law.

OLDHAMADE wrote:I fully understand where you're coming from Brian but we're not talking about how it's obviously been mishandled at the top
For me it's about old fashioned traditions and those poor souls at the bottom of the pile...............................The paying fans who love that club to the point of hocking their own possessions in order to keep it afloat whatever the cost, fundraising, even lowering themselves to ask others for help etc etc

It's only by the prudent ways of our backers and the grace of god that we stay afloat in these very difficult times .........................................Let's not cast the first stone but try to show some support and humility in what has become a serious situation for our local neighbours.

I didn't see any sympathy towards Chester, a slightly worse situation but didn't pay the taxman either and it will be the taxman that's their downfall. Where was the support from a single league club when we had the transfer embargo applied? Did any of them tell the league to be lenient with us? No, they happily cheated the system.

It's a cruel world with little room for sentiment. Like I said before, I don't want to be relegated through sympathy and sentiment.

might go sounds like a great idea and with people supporting different teams there should be some great banter as well

If Morecambe had been managed the same way and it was us that needed saving, would you just let MFC rot and say tough sh*t??
I think you'd be more than happy to ask for help in the same situation if it was MFC in their shoes. I think it's more about helping a club that needs help, more than caring about why they need help.

ezz wrote:If Morecambe had been managed the same way and it was us that needed saving, would you just let MFC rot and say tough sh*t??
I think you'd be more than happy to ask for help in the same situation if it was MFC in their shoes. I think it's more about helping a club that needs help, more than caring about why they need help.

Ezz, what did you do for Chester, Darlington or Luton, to name a few?

OLDHAMADE wrote:It's only by the prudent ways of our backers and the grace of god that we stay afloat in these very difficult times.

I agree with most of what you say Oldhamade, but the last part. Prudent? Don't kid yourself. We are lucky enough to have backers with money to bail us out every season, Accy aren't. We don't live within our means at the moment and have not done so since we went full-time. "Football is a business" is a phrase that really gets up my nose, and is commonly referred to by sad acts on here (some don't even go to games) that can tell you what such and such average league attendance is. What business do you know that operates at a 6 figure loss each financial year and is kept afloat indefinitely with little changes? Not many, if any. We are fortunate.

As for Stanley not paying their tax bill you have raised some good points Gnasher, although I feel some of your point are a little irrelevant and rather uncompassionate. Our sympathy lies not with Accrington Stanley management and not paying bills, but for the fans of the club who though no fault of their own could be losing the club they follow so passionately. If Stanley stay up and we went down it would be because of footballing reasons. I can see what your point is....but what is the average attendance of Bromsgrove Rovers FC? It could so easily be us if we did not have the board that we do.

I'm not sure why I feel differently about the situations at Chester and Accrington as essentially they are in similar predicaments. I don't know the structures of either terribly well. I suppose it is the support that Stanley fans have shown other clubs in the past (like our Hereford home play-off game with the flags for example) that has lead to supporters from other clubs feeling obliged to help them out if they can, in the hope that they can sort themselves out.

Gnasher wrote:I don't quite understand this love for Accy. Why is it OK to screw the tax man? I like the official statement

Accrington Stanley has today launched Save our Stanley, the official campaign to raise money to satisfy HM Revenue and Customs demand for £308,000 in just under eight weeks.

Demand? HMRC are only asking for what should have been paid already. Money every one else has to pay, me & you included. Every penny they took in, they knew how much of it would be needed to cover HMRC's bill but they chose to spend it instead. It means they survived last season on money they shouldn't have had. It might have paid for the seats they needed to stay in the league. If we are relegated with Accy just above us, how will you feel then?

I look forward to a decent explanation and maybe a reason why no one offered to help Chester pay their tax bill.

What's that old saying? Something along the lines of 'there's only 2 things you can't avoid, death and the taxman'.

Totally agree with what you are saying, while i have every sympathy for the Stanley supporters and any fans of other clubs that find themselves in this position i have none for the clubs involved.

Basically if Accy haven't paid the tax man then they have spent money they cant afford, A playing budget that has kept them in the football league while another club gets relegated who does pay their tax bill, its little short of cheating the system and before anyone says it i would feel exactly the same about our club if we were mismanaged in this way.

If Stanley stay up and we went down it would be because of footballing reasons

Far from it, if Stanley went into administration their 10 point deduction could save another team. How would you feel if your money kept them afloat and they stayed up while we went down, 5 points behind Accy?

Gnasher wrote:If Stanley stay up and we went down it would be because of footballing reasons

Far from it, if Stanley went into administration their 10 point deduction could save another team. How would you feel if your money kept them afloat and they stayed up while we went down, 5 points behind Accy?

ask for a refund

Gnasher wrote:I didn't see any sympathy towards Chester

You of all people I know would have answered that one before it was even written

All i'm trying to say is: The Manager (whose doing a fantastic job) the players and the loyal fans cannot be held accountable for those above cheating the system.
I must admit to having a soft spot for Stanley as they always come out fighting every game and give it a real good go, their fans are different class and for this they have my total admiration

I just hope they can turn it around and I had no hesitation in putting into their coffers in order to achieve it, other Football people in the close knit county of Lancashire will follow suit in many forms.

I'd look at our season retrospectively and probably conclude that results such as letting a three goal lead slip at home did not matters.

[quote
I agree with most of what you say Oldhamade, but the last part. Prudent? Don't kid yourself. We are lucky enough to have backers with money to bail us out every season, Accy aren't. We don't live within our means at the moment and have not done so since we went full-time. "Football is a business" is a phrase that really gets up my nose, and is commonly referred to by sad acts on here (some don't even go to games) that can tell you what such and such average league attendance is. What business do you know that operates at a 6 figure loss each financial year and is kept afloat indefinitely with little changes? Not many, if any. We are fortunate.quote]

Football, while may be seen by many as "a business" - this may be true, it may not.
The owners, boards and committees may or may not have the finances to "balance the books" at the end of the season.
So, working on the principle that most, if not all clubs run at a loss each season - even Man U. and Liverpool have debts, there must be either, tax benefits to the directors, which lure them to run a football club, or it is their version of having a yacht, or running a race horse or race car team etc - and it`s their chosen "hobby" - which means that they are "playing" with the team? - Now, don`t take my comments the wrong way - i`m really proud of what our board do for our team and think they have made some really shrewd decisions and the club is in as strong a position as it has ever been in and for that I thank them.
My big beef is that the foreign investors such as what`s happened with Man City and Notts County etc, can only mean bad things for the clubs below - they start paying their players more, their managers more, other players won`t sign contracts until they are on similar wages as their team mates etc, thus raising the expected salaries of all players in that league, then in turn, causing more clubs to face decisions like Accy have had last season; " do we pay the players` their wages, keep the ground in a playable standard - or pay the taxman and drop a league and have to start all over again - tough decisions and ones I wouldn`t like to have to make.

...but Stanley chose to spend the money due to be paid as PAYE to the taxman and in effect the players money, on other matters. If they find themselves in serious debt then for me the problems they have are 'self made'. It may well be the current Board are not responsible, but if, as has been suggested, monies were agreed to be paid monthly to satisfy the debt and this has not happened then they have brought it upon themselves.

This started off quite a happy thread until about halfway down it, how is everyone getting there?