O/T I just want some respect

[Christies Child]

First I want to aplogise to my fellow SVs for using this forum to sound off, but I really feel like scum this morning.

Last week I was made redundant from my job due, in part due to the 4 hour round trip to my former offices on an almost daily basis. With a wife and duaghter who has just started UNi to support i badly need a job to bring in whatever money I can. After all the cat needs feeding!

Believing that there are government departments to advise people in my siuation I called the Job Centre Plus people for help. They redirected me to a freephone number where I underwent a 40 minute question and answer session that was so repetitive in some of its questions to be laughable, if it wasn't so tragic.

At no stage during the interview was I asked my experience or what I was prepared to do. All they wanted to know time after time after time were the same questions but asked in a differing way.

Eventually they asked did I have any questions.

The flood gates could have opened but it soon became obvious that they didn't want to know using the familiar excuse of 'I can't answer that....I don't have an opinion....I can't offer advice...etc etc etc'

By this time whatever hair I have left was disappearing fast in total frustration.

However what I did find out was that even though it's going to cost me around £8.50 in bus fares (bye bye company car!) to attend the job centre on a fortnightly basis, I will not be able to claim it back because the £60 I get on a weekly basis is sufficient to cover all my costs. In otherwords, it's tough on those of us who are out of work, who live in a rural community and where there is one bus out and one bus in every day. In effect I'm being penalised for where I live....or so it feels.

The feelings I came off the 'phone with were one of being treated like scum. A second class citizen. A scrounger of society.

I certainly didn't feel as though I was treated with a modicum of respect.

Maybe I'm wrong but even a dog deserves some respect surely.

No doubt there are other SVs out there in a simialr situation and have gone through the same sole destroying process. I now understand exactly how they must feel.

As for getting help and advice about new opportunities I somehow feel that it's going to be long and emotional roller coaster that Job Centre Plus seem unable to be of help.....or even care!

Sorry fellow SVs but I just needed to get that off my chest.

Do I feel better now?

Not really, but what the hell!

Message to the Mods...by all means get rid of this post if you want.....

[marky No.1]

Keep smiling CC. Don't let the b******s get you down. After all the sun is out and there's a game on tomorrow

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Respect/

[scalehallshrimp]

the trouble is that the way the economy is going ( or not going as the case may be) is that more and more people will be testing this pathetic service
dont forget 2/3 of all jobs filled are never advertised,relying on the bush telegraph
scalehall shrimp

[Neil G]

I sympathise with you CC, sounds like it's never changed in 20 years which is around the last time I was desperate enough to sign on and the time when I also decided I would beg steal or borrow before I let that lot humiliate me again. It's not easy for anyone finding work out there especially so if you live in a rural area, I know all about that believe me. Keep your chin up and stay positive, something will turn up for you i'm sure.

[durhamshrimp]

Can really identify with what you're saying. I remember trying to explain to them about my experience and qualifications only to be patronised in the same way they do the white-cider swilling Jeremy Kyle scum they also get in there.

Did however feel nice and smug by informing them they'd used 'there' on one of their posters instead of 'their', a small victory over the 30mins of patronising lecture I'd just taken.

Oh and I forgot to say. Keep your chin up and keep going, things do work themselves out.

[wonder shrimp]

you have my every sympathy CC and i hope things work out for you soon, BUT

isn't this the result of decades of attack on the welfare state from the tabloids and rightwing govts (unfortunately labour haven't been any different from thatcher's lot) who have changed the welfare state from something to be truly proud of, a safety net for anyone who needs it to something begrudgingly given to people who are assumed to be an inferior underclass?

which political party is promising to strengthen the welfare state? could any do so with any hope for election? it's a sad state of affairs IMHO.

[Weetabix Kid]

Plenty of ok temping agencies around in the short term !

[wijit]

I'm totally with you, CC. I too was made redundant at the end of June. I'm now on 87 job applications and have to go and provide some odd entertainment for some condescending little twat when i go to sign on. The good bit was when she asked if all of my "diary" was true, that really made me feel good. Then, at the next desk the following was overheard; "why did you not attend yesterday, when you should've?" "becasue I got pissed the night before and overslept"
Overslept? It was 11:50! "will I lose any money?" "no, but it might be delayed".
When you go in, keep your head up. Don't allow this temporarty glitch life has chucked to you to get you down. that's not the CC I've come to enjoy reading on here.

[dazza]

dear christie

perhaps your boss has found out how much time you spend on here,and how much of the pre season you spent spying on sammy and the boys,that it has become apparent you wernt needed by the company!!!

sorry only joking

cudnt resist..he he

[CASS]

If you need a lift to the "Pie" just ask mate,I can nip down and pick you up.

[Christies Child]

dear christie

perhaps your boss has found out how much time you spend on here,and how much of the pre season you spent spying on sammy and the boys,that it has become apparent you wernt needed by the company!!!

sorry only joking

cudnt resist..he he

I was waiting for somebody to reply with that one!

All I will say is 'thank goodness for mobile 'phones' as nearly all my business was conducted on the 'phone as one of the clubs backroom staff can confirm.

As for my Boss, he's worse than me, spends nearly all his time on his mobile at Carrington watching his beloved Utd! And all the time the company continues to make profit.......

It's kind of good (?) to know that others have experienced the same attitudes, but as someone said 'don't let the *astards grind me down'.....

Cheers everybody.

[Christies Child]

If you need a lift to the "Pie" just ask mate,I can nip down and pick you up.

Cheers Cass for that.

My wife has said that I must get to the games come what may, 'cause she realises I need to 'sound off' somewhere.

Don't worry it will not be in the direction of anybody connected with the club.

Referee....Opposition...???????

[Keith]

Plenty of ok temping agencies around in the short term !

Might be worth you (or others) listing the ones you found to be good?

Good luck with the search CC.

[Mark S]

Keep your head up Neil. You have been there before so you know that it only takes one opportunity.

Cream always rises to the top!

Good luck.

[Posh]

I've every sympathy with you CC. And I've also got it with the Job Centre staff. Most of the junior staff are poorly paid and haven't got the backgrounds to give people real advice or practical guidance. Instead day after day they get to deal with the type of people mentioned above who have no intention of getting a job but have to make sure they've ticked a box. They are often verbally, if not physically assaulted.

Above them though are well-paid career civil servants with superb pension arrangements, the vast majority of whom have little or no experience of what it's like to work in the private sector or how industry really works. Without this they come up with meaningless exercises like the one you describe to meet targets etc. The politicians might have the right ideas but converting into anything of value is often impossible. As a friend experienced whilst working at the Child Support Agency it is impossible to get sack or even discipline poor or disruptive staff. What happens is they actually promote them to a better paid job in a different department to get rid of them from their team.

The new action of incapacity benefit and unemployment, in my view, sounds like it may bring results. They plan to outsource some work to agencies will effectively push people into work. In return for a fairly large sum of money but less than a year's benefit they'll remove the obstacles to get them to work. E.g. "We've got a job in Garstang for you". "I've got no car". "It's OK well drive you". "Yeah but it says I need a basic qualification". "It's OK we've enrolled you on a course, you start on Monday". Etc until they take a job.

We've 1.7 million people unemployed (900,000 claiming benefit) and 3 million on incapacity benefit. It's got to start coming down or taxes will soon go up to cover the rising cost.

Good luck.

[shrimper]

I know you'll probably already be doing this CC and wijit and I don't mean to patronise you - but others reading this (perhaps younger) who may not previously have experienced unemployment could get a bit of a tip.

Don't merely look for work via the jobcentres or recruitment ads. If you do you will definitely be up against others - usually many others - IF you manage to get an interview.

Go through those channels as well but, while you're out of work.....

All the time you need to be thinking about where you'd actually like to work and pushing yourself in those places.
Ask if you can go in and have a look round for a day - if they don't offer you full work experience over a week or two, just ask if you can pop in for an afternoon, or even a couple of hours.

Meet people, chat about the work they do and meet the boss, leaving a good CV with them and telling them you can start immediately if they have anything to offer. Do this with a few places - what's there to lose?

Also think about not getting the precise job you're looking for but starting with whatever's on offer at a particular place you'd like to work at. If you get a foot in the door it's much easier to work your way up from within.

Again, I don't mean to patronise those who are experienced job-seekers but I know several companies (including ours) who have recruited a lot of their staff from word of mouth and from seeing keen, enthusiastic people face to face - often it doesn't even get to job ads and interviews.

[Weetabix Kid]

Plenty of ok temping agencies around in the short term !

Might be worth you (or others) listing the ones you found to be good?

Good luck with the search CC.

Personally I've always found Masterstaff ok and Reed sh*t, think though your best just joining them all

[Richard Head]

The system is ideal for those who have no intention of working. I was in the fortunate postion of getting a good pay off when i took voluntary redundancy. I had no intention of getting a job but decided that having worked for 35 years straight from school i might as well get what i could from the state and found that i could claim contribution based Job Seekers allowance for 6 months. All i had to do was sign on every fortnight and fill in my Job Seekers diary.

As well as my allotted day and time that i had to sign on i was supposed to visit the job centre twice a week to check the job vacancies but no one ever checked if i had been. As for the diary, i dont think anyone ever checked if what i put in it was true. Its fairly easy to avoid getting a job, just make an arse of your application form or put in a crap CV.

After 6 months the contribution based allowance stops but you can continue on the income based allowance if you qualify. I am sure some people do this and continue on Job Seekers Allowance almost indefintely

[Christies Child]

The system is ideal for those who have no intention of working. I was in the fortunate postion of getting a good pay off when i took voluntary redundancy. I had no intention of getting a job but decided that having worked for 35 years straight from school i might as well get what i could from the state and found that i could claim contribution based Job Seekers allowance for 6 months. All i had to do was sign on every fortnight and fill in my Job Seekers diary.

As well as my allotted day and time that i had to sign on i was supposed to visit the job centre twice a week to check the job vacancies but no one ever checked if i had been. As for the diary, i dont think anyone ever checked if what i put in it was true. Its fairly easy to avoid getting a job, just make an arse of your application form or put in a crap CV.

After 6 months the contribution based allowance stops but you can continue on the income based allowance if you qualify. I am sure some people do this and continue on Job Seekers Allowance almost indefintely

Not sure how to respond to this except to say that maybe I'm too honest about things. I tell it the way it is....as all on SVs know.

Let's hope I don't loose my spirit of mischievousness....

Already doing the direct approach Shrimper but everybody appears to be looking towards reducing costs.

Could be a spot of 'door knocking' on Monday....which will be fun (I hope!)

Now where's my bike?

[Keith]

Following on from Shrimper's advice, and aiming this squarely at those who are just starting out in the 'looking for' line...

Fill your application in in pencil, then get someone to proof read it, before you write it up in pen. And if it says 'use black ink', use black ink! If you have one job and thirty applications, you'll be amazed at how quickly the first pass goes. For example, if the person shortlisting sees blue ink (if it asks for black), it says 'I can't follow simple instructions'... bin.

Ask for an 'informal look around'. Take your completed application form with you. Ask good questions (think ahead and plan some). Then, as you leave, leave the application with the manager who showed you around. "Yes, you've convinced me that this will be a good place to work, so I'd like to apply". This has three positive outcomes...

Unless you made a complete tit of yourself, you are practically guaranteed an interview.

You've actually TOLD THEM that you want the job and in doing so, probably told one of the people who will be interviewing you. You've also got a 'friendly' face when you walk in to the interview.

If you've listened as you go around, you will have a very good idea as to what is important to that company, so you may be able to second guess some of the questions that they will be asking or what they need. For example, before being shown around, they give you a hard hat and hi-viz jacket and the person with you explains about how 'we have a strong culture of Health & Safety' then go away and do a bit of research about H&S in case they mention something and if they don't, you have a question ready for the end of the interview 'I noticed when I visited that you take H&S very seriously, do you have a specific course that you send your employees on? or you might notice the staff all use Mac instead of PC's, so go away and learn a bit about Macs, so at the interview you can drop in that "when I visited I noticed... I've been reading up about... do you have training..." In other words, you are reminding them all that you came to visit, making it clear you were 'taking it in' and stating that you want to learn more... I'm keen, I'm willing and I want to learn

Actually, there is a fourth advantage to an informal visit... You might meet the manager and think "what an arse, I'm not working THERE"!

Finally, for those who really are just setting out, eg school leavers, if you are struggling to get a foot in the door, do some voluntary work. You'll be surprised at how much more your application will stand out if you can put a voluntary job down. It also means you can get a 'real world' reference.

[Christies Child]

Following on from Keith's post, I attended an interview for a Marketing Manager's post this week and spent probably two full days ( I had the time ) researching the company and finding out as much as I could beforehand. I even went to the trouble of producing a document as to how I would undertake the roll and what skill sets I could bring to the table. I left the document with them after the meeting.

When asked did I have any questions, I was fully prepared and proceeded to ask a number which quite frankly I don't think that they were prepared for.

I'm not being a smart arse, but I'm a great believer that preperation is the key.

If I get to a second interview and then am offered the position, all the preliminary work will have been of benefit.

If not....I didn't have much else to do...so..!!!!

[CASS]

Following on from Shrimper's advice, and aiming this squarely at those who are just starting out in the 'looking for' line...

Fill your application in in pencil, then get someone to proof read it, before you write it up in pen. And if it says 'use black ink', use black ink! If you have one job and thirty applications, you'll be amazed at how quickly the first pass goes. For example, if the person shortlisting sees blue ink (if it asks for black), it says 'I can't follow simple instructions'... bin.

Ask for an 'informal look around'. Take your completed application form with you. Ask good questions (think ahead and plan some). Then, as you leave, leave the application with the manager who showed you around. "Yes, you've convinced me that this will be a good place to work, so I'd like to apply". This has three positive outcomes...

Unless you made a complete tit of yourself, you are practically guaranteed an interview.

You've actually TOLD THEM that you want the job and in doing so, probably told one of the people who will be interviewing you. You've also got a 'friendly' face when you walk in to the interview.

If you've listened as you go around, you will have a very good idea as to what is important to that company, so you may be able to second guess some of the questions that they will be asking or what they need. For example, before being shown around, they give you a hard hat and hi-viz jacket and the person with you explains about how 'we have a strong culture of Health & Safety' then go away and do a bit of research about H&S in case they mention something and if they don't, you have a question ready for the end of the interview 'I noticed when I visited that you take H&S very seriously, do you have a specific course that you send your employees on? or you might notice the staff all use Mac instead of PC's, so go away and learn a bit about Macs, so at the interview you can drop in that "when I visited I noticed... I've been reading up about... do you have training..." In other words, you are reminding them all that you came to visit, making it clear you were 'taking it in' and stating that you want to learn more... I'm keen, I'm willing and I want to learn

Actually, there is a fourth advantage to an informal visit... You might meet the manager and think "what an arse, I'm not working THERE"!

Finally, for those who really are just setting out, eg school leavers, if you are struggling to get a foot in the door, do some voluntary work. You'll be surprised at how much more your application will stand out if you can put a voluntary job down. It also means you can get a 'real world' reference.

Finally Finally Once you have had an interview,and you are keen on the post on offer Write a note to the H.R. dep,t of the company,thanking them for taking the time out to interview you,
include a bit of brown nosing of how impressed you where etc. This will make them feel good but most importantly it will remind them of you.which may or may not be a good thing.

[Mighty Red]

CC wrote:

Now where's my bike?

I think you'll find that you sold it on shrimpsvoices a couple of years ago.

Good luck with the job hunting.

[Crazeenick]

Best of luck CC with the job hunting. I don't actually know you - but from reading your posts on SVs you seem to be an intelligent and resourceful guy with a good sense of humour to keep you going. I'm sure you'll find a suitable position before too long. Keep your chin up. In the meantime, vent your spleen at CP when the ref makes those dodgy decisions!!

All the best.

[Aal]

Am sure things will work out for you Christie's.

So sorry to hear of the way you've been treated. We all need to be shown respect and given the dignity that we deserve.

As someone siad here before 'Cream rises to the top'