How many?

[mfcbro]

Most of us are saying that the players brought in arent up to much.What i would like to know is how many were watched before signing and giving 2 year contracts.Mccann i think not,Wainwright i think not,Mccstay i think not,Howe i think not,o carroll i think not,Drummy 2nd time i think not,Parrish i think not,Roche i think not,Dan Smith i think not.Even going back to last season and before,Artell i think not.The only one that was watched was michael Carr and look what happened to him.Not saying all these players are not worth their place,just that its our scouting that needs looking at.Any way rant over lets get behind the players we have on Saturday at Port Vale.

[Keith]

do you know any of this as a fact or are you just assuming that these players weren't watched?

[Christies Child]

NW came with an excellent reputation
RH a lonee who has impressed
BR impressed when he played at CP for Chesterfield
AP was acclaimed by many at Bury as a good one for the future.
MC first signing and was impressive at Vics
DA Chester's POY when he came to CP

However as for the rest, certainly have to question whoever recommended them.

BUT for me it's the system and lack of pace and creativity and most certainly rank bad tactics particularly in the first half.

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

[campdave]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

[Keith]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

Some people always appear to think that a change in a manager leads to a change in fortune. I don't think that is the case. And if you ask Grimsby fans, they may not think so either.

[P/T Indie]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

I know what he means, the club will be applying for lots of grants for the new ground from local government, sport england, lottery funding etc If they were to give us this money and we then end up with the best ground in the conference serious questions would be asked.

In the past managers at Morecambe would always be given time but with the huge amount at risk with funding etc for the new ground there is a lot more at stake now.

[Christies Child]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

Interestingly another poster on SV's has posted something very similar to my comments.

I take it CD that you disagree, but then again you and I rarely agree about anything.

[Neil G]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

He can't sneak into the North Stand anymore which is what he did the last time he wanted McIlroy's head on a spike, personally I would like a fans forum so that Sammy could respond to the months of bawling and bad mouthing he's had to endure from Christies Clown, I would pay a lot of money to see that one

[Christies Child]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

He can't sneak into the North Stand anymore which is what he did the last time he wanted McIlroy's head on a spike, personally I would like a fans forum so that Sammy could respond to the months of bawling and bad mouthing he's had to endure from Christies Clown, I would pay a lot of money to see that one

I'm not alone in questioning things.....far from it!

[campdave]

Interestingly another poster on SV's has posted something very similar to my comments.

I take it CD that you disagree, but then again you and I rarely agree about anything.

Personally, I don't see how another manager is going to attract quality players to Morecambe on our budget and location, given the best options available are likely to have offers from other clubs for either more money or better location. Andy kirk chose not to come to us - could we not match the financial offer, or was the lure of the Scottish First Division too much?

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's that in my opinion, you rarely give an opinion, choosing rather to mask it in an open question (your comment about Jim Bentley "can he escape some of the blame for what's been happening" for example - do you think he's to blame or not). Same in this thread, you allude to something, but don't actually tell us what you think.

[Christies Child]

Interestingly another poster on SV's has posted something very similar to my comments.

I take it CD that you disagree, but then again you and I rarely agree about anything.

Personally, I don't see how another manager is going to attract quality players to Morecambe on our budget and location, given the best options available are likely to have offers from other clubs for either more money or better location. Andy kirk chose not to come to us - could we not match the financial offer, or was the lure of the Scottish First Division too much?
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's that in my opinion, you rarely give an opinion, choosing rather to mask it in an open question (your comment about Jim Bentley "can he escape some of the blame for what's been happening" for example - do you think he's to blame or not). Same in this thread, you allude to something, but don't actually tell us what you think.

Maybe just a change in tactics could bring about the entertaining football that we all crave for.

[parceldave]

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.

CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

I know what he means, the club will be applying for lots of grants for the new ground from local government, sport england, lottery funding etc If they were to give us this money and we then end up with the best ground in the conference serious questions would be asked.

In the past managers at Morecambe would always be given time but with the huge amount at risk with funding etc for the new ground there is a lot more at stake now.

The problem is , how much time do you give somebody when you cant see any light at the end of the tunnel. Someone pointed out last night that we have only won 3 games out of 31 which is relegation form in anyone's eyes. If you were employed as a barperson and you only managed to pull 3 good pints out of 31 would you keep your job, if you travelled to away games with Sardines and G.H only had 3 safe journeys would you travel with him again, if i only managed to successfully deliver 3 parcels out of 31 ( i wish ) i would be banrupt and my contract would be terminated. . Its no good repeating on here , "lets get behind the lads " someone needs to get behind them in the dressing room and give them a kick up the arse and try and get some confidence back. I hope its not going to take a humiliation in the F.A Cup which aint far away before something is done and please no one say " well we can consentrate on the league now " . Oh well must start the ironing.

[Neil G]

Christies Child wrote:

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.


CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.


He can't sneak into the North Stand anymore which is what he did the last time he wanted McIlroy's head on a spike, personally I would like a fans forum so that Sammy could respond to the months of bawling and bad mouthing he's had to endure from Christies Clown, I would pay a lot of money to see that one


I'm not alone in questioning things.....far from it!

No, you're not alone, but you are one of; if not the most vocal dissenters on a match day, a travesty that supporters in the paddock took most of the flack recently for having a go at Mcllroy when the loudest voice was coming from the main stand.

If you throw enough muck some of it will stick CC that's for sure and you even sunk low enough to have a pop at Jim Bentley yesterday, well out of order. There are a lot of supporters who were happy to take the good times but won't knuckle down and support when they are needed most, i'm not asking anyone to wear rose tinted specs just to support the team through the bad times too rather than sit at a computer thinking of ways to rubbish them on a daily basis.

[badger]

I think it will be hurting jimbo as much as it hurting us.

[mfcbro]

I wasnt assuming anything Keith i was just asking a question and expressing an opinion,surely thats allowed.I agree with neil lets have a fans forum but sadly i dont think that will happen.

[marky]

Some people always appear to think that a change in a manager leads to a change in fortune. I don't think that is the case. And if you ask Grimsby fans, they may not think so either.

It isn't always the case but that's the risk you take. Thing is, you were one of the people who didn't agree with sacking Harvey and that decision was vindicated. Plenty of other boards would have sacked him by now, which in many ways puts our board in a very good light. However, PMcG proved with the Harvey sacking that he isn't afraid of making cut throat decisions and with ambitions of playing in a higher league, there's no way he'll stand by and watch the team fight relegation without doing something.

[Christies Child]

Christies Child wrote:

As for a change in the management structure? Let's just say that the Board cannot allow our place in the league to be put at risk after all the hard work put into securing our financial future with the building of a new stadium.


CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.


He can't sneak into the North Stand anymore which is what he did the last time he wanted McIlroy's head on a spike, personally I would like a fans forum so that Sammy could respond to the months of bawling and bad mouthing he's had to endure from Christies Clown, I would pay a lot of money to see that one


I'm not alone in questioning things.....far from it!

No, you're not alone, but you are one of; if not [b]the most vocal dissenters on a match day, a travesty that supporters in the paddock took most of the flack recently for having a go at Mcllroy when the loudest voice was coming from the main stand.

If you throw enough muck some of it will stick CC that's for sure and you even sunk low enough to have a pop at Jim Bentley yesterday, well out of order[/b]. There are a lot of supporters who were happy to take the good times but won't knuckle down and support when they are needed most, i'm not asking anyone to wear rose tinted specs just to support the team through the bad times too rather than sit at a computer thinking of ways to rubbish them on a daily basis.

First off, I was not the one giving Sammy and the team a verbal bashing the other week. Despite you and others thinking otherwise. I'm big enough ( ) to take the flack when it is me but not on this occassion.

Next. With regards to my question about Jimbo. All I did was ask the question as to whether Jimbo was totally blameless for some of our defensive nightmares to date. Jimbo has been, is still and will continue to be a stalwart for the club that we all support. But even the best can have off days. Knowing Jimbo as I do, he would be the first to accept that there have been games when a mistake has had dire concequencies. That's the way it is for us at the moment. Every mistake; every small lack of concentration has been punished.

I've supported our club in person and financially through more difficult times than this and will contiue to do so, irrespective of what league or level the red shirts play in. There are others around me on match days who have done likewise and will continue to do so. I will always give praise when appropriate. But likewise I will continue to express my concern .

Is that such a crime?

And finally, for now, there isn't a venue big enough in the town to hold the Fans Forum that would see me get what some of SVs reckon I deserve.

[badger]

We all know defenders can make the odd mistake in a season and we can put up with that.
but at the moment they are making mistakes almost every game.

I cannot believe i am going to say this,but mabe we should play a 5-4-1 formation i know it sounds negative but we need to stop goals going in.

[Keith]

I wasnt assuming anything Keith i was just asking a question and expressing an opinion,surely thats allowed.

I wasn't trying to censure you, and it wasn't a 'smart arse' retort (although with my track record for sarcasm, it could easily be taken as that! ) It was a genuine question, asking you to clarify if it was your opinion that they weren't watched or if you knew as a fact they weren't. There is a huge and important distinction between the two. "I think not" suggested to me that you had a basis for thinking that beyond 'gut instinct' ie a rhetorical question. A straight question would have been 'can anyone tell me if the following players were watched before signing?' So ask away but don't think too badly if you are asked to clarify!

It isn't always the case but that's the risk you take. Thing is, you were one of the people who didn't agree with sacking Harvey and that decision was vindicated. Plenty of other boards would have sacked him by now, which in many ways puts our board in a very good light. However, PMcG proved with the Harvey sacking that he isn't afraid of making cut throat decisions and with ambitions of playing in a higher league, there's no way he'll stand by and watch the team fight relegation without doing something.

Jim Harvey shouldn't figure in this current discussion but as you've raised it, I didn't agree with what happened and how it was handled. I still don't, so I'm not in agreement that the decision was 'vindicated'. As mentioned elsewhere, it was basically a JH team that got us promoted. That said, it was Sammy who achieved that promotion. As such, I think we should give him enough time & respect to try and turn this slump around. Yes, we will need to keep looking over our shoulder and yes, possibly, the length of time he's given is dependent in part on how sure we are that Luton and Bournemouth can't catch us.

I'll be happy to just see the end of this season with us out of the relegation spots, ready to build for next season, changing manager shouldn't happen before then unless it begins to look odds-on that we will go down. That isn't the case at the moment.

[marky]

I don't think Luton can catch us because they're not playing well enough to amass enough points. However, Bournemouth will have caught us by Christmas so then it's between us, Grimsby and possibly a couple of others. I'd take survival but, whether it's right or not, I can't see certain members of our board being willing to risk possible relegation.

[badger]

If the scouts had been watching the players sammy brought in then they are the ones that should be sacked.

[Neil G]

First off, I was not the one giving Sammy and the team a verbal bashing the other week. Despite you and others thinking otherwise. I'm big enough ( ) to take the flack when it is me but not on this occassion.

You give them a verbal bashing just about every week, we do know what you sound like you know The day the paddock got slated was the day you gave Sammy a right old roasting about his use of substitutes, you know that's a fact so don't come the "when it's me i'm big enough" blah di blah di blah

Knowing Jimbo as I do

Still got your binoculars then

[Keith]

However, Bournemouth will have caught us by Christmas so then it's between us, Grimsby and possibly a couple of others.

Bournemouth have scored 13 points from 12 games.
Morecambe have scored 9 points from 12 games.

Bournemouth are 13 points behind us. There are nine games between now and Christmas.

So are you suggesting we will not pick up a solitary point between now and Christmas, while Bournemouth will pick up as many in nine games as they have so far in twelve?

At the current rate of picking up points, Bournemouth will be slightly behind us at the end of the season. They would just catch Grimsby.

A win against Port Vale on Saturday and we will be feeling much happier.

[shrimper]

Re- CC, it would be nice if you could actually state what you think rather than hiding behind slightly cryptic comments.

and First off, I was not the one giving Sammy and the team a verbal bashing the other week. Despite you and others thinking otherwise. I'm big enough ( ) to take the flack when it is me but not on this occassion.

:[/quote]

As I was in the stand that day I can confirm it wasn't CC shouting that day. It was another chap who, I believe, actually came on here to admit his emotion got the better of him and that he was OTT - and I think that took some guts and was fair enough.

But, CC, I think the point being made was that it's not really fair to make statements like 'should someone escape the blame' and then claim it was only a question. It's easy to backtrack like that and pretend you never brought up a sticky subject in the first place. I agree with the person who suggested that this is a bit of a cop-out tactic.

It's like, for example, saying 'has he taken us as far as he can?' lighting the blue touch paper then, when the furore erupts, holding your hands up and claiming it was only a question and you didn't start the debate.

If you're going to put controversial issues forward, at least have the courage of your own convictions to say 'I think Jimbo has been poor this season and should be dropped' if that's what you think - it's only an opinion. If it's not then why bring it up?

This site is about opinions, if you have them that's your right. But state them clearly. Be honest.

[marky]

So are you suggesting we will not pick up a solitary point between now and Christmas, while Bournemouth will pick up as many in nine games as they have so far in twelve

Bournemouth have an interesting run of fixtures...

Lincoln home
Luton away
Chesterfield home
Accrington away
Grimsby away
Morecambe home
Chester home
Rochdale away
Bury home

Now I can easily see them getting 5 wins from those which gives them at least 15 points. As for ourselves, I don't think we'll get more than 5 points from the 9 games so, whilst Christmas is possibly a bit early, I don't think it'll be much after when we're caught.