O/t This is the system we live in today

[mrpotatohead]

Agreed keith, the ripper, the moors murderers and the krays , all ''repented''to some degree in a desperate hope of release, it is somehiw gratifying to see them having a faint glimmer of hope, snuffed out annually after 25 years or so.

[SolentShrimp]

Agreed keith, the ripper, the moors murderers and the krays , all ''repented''to some degree in a desperate hope of release, it is somehiw gratifying to see them having a faint glimmer of hope, snuffed out annually after 25 years or so.

Lee Rigby, his family and friends will take great comfort from that. And also take comfort to know because of his Human Rights his murderer can take the piss out of the system whenever he feels like it. Sick!

[Keith]

Can't find where I 've suggested anything like..... whereas you said it was to be expected.

Until complete control has been regained then it's possible the violent prisoner's face and teeth came in contact with the solid floor.

Were the control & restraint methods used in this case within the permissable rules for control & constraint guidelines in a prison environment?

There has been an enquiry, and the staff concerned have been found to have no case to answer.

I began my original reply by saying:

Not commenting on this case...

I have no way of knowing the circumstances of this incident, which is why I began by stating I wasn't commenting upon this case, however, as you say, there has been an enquiry and it found that the staff acted correctly. I've pointed out that there are a number of scenarios where the person being restrained may legitimately receive an injury such as this one. Teeth coming in contact with the floor is an unlikely one in a controlled restraint, so I would suggest it either wasn't a controlled restraint or it was something other than the floor that caused the damage.

As I've said, I'm backing my assertion by having numerous experiences of restraining aggressive people and having been a qualified instructor in this field. I'm awaiting your experience of this and an explanation as to why your comment: "Until complete control has been regained then it's possible the violent prisoner's face and teeth came in contact with the solid floor" is accurate.

[SolentShrimp]

What I got up to in Armed Forces for 23 years is for me to know and for you to guess at...

None of us were there so don't know exactly what went on.

But when a known violent prisoner [I think that includes beheading an innocent victim], begins violently resisting the people who's task it is to escort the violent prisoner from A to B, the violent prisoner usually [I think] has to be physically forced to the floor face down in order to regain complete control.

Until complete control has been regained then it's possible the violent prisoner's face and teeth came in contact with the solid floor. The prison officers have to be in a position of superiority in order for the prisoner to realise he is no longer in control.

The prison officers used force appropriate to the potential violence of a proven violent prisoner, and for their own safety. They've been cleared of any wrong-doing.

[Keith]

Agreed keith, the ripper, the moors murderers and the krays , all ''repented''to some degree in a desperate hope of release, it is somehiw gratifying to see them having a faint glimmer of hope, snuffed out annually after 25 years or so.

Lee Rigby, his family and friends will take great comfort from that. And also take comfort to know because of his Human Rights his murderer can take the piss out of the system whenever he feels like it. Sick!

Aimee [Lee's fiancé'] is, quite understandably, also reluctant to talk about Lee’s killers. “I don’t think about them. I had a lot of therapy after this happened and the one thing that stuck with me was that if I think about them, if I have any emotions towards them – they’ve won. They haven’t just killed Lee, they’ve killed me as well. And I refuse to let them do that.” When asked if she thinks their sentencing was appropriate, she is silent for a long time. Eventually, she whispers, “Yeah”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1124551 ... -West.html

“It’s definitely some sort of comfort to know that I’m never going to bump into them in the streets and that they’re never going to be out again," Aimee West said.

[Lee's mother, Lyn said] "I told Lee, 'It's time for you to rest in peace my beautiful son. Justice has been done and sleep well until we meet again,'" Lyn Rigby told The Sun.

"These sentences bring me comfort to know Lee will suffer no more - even though our pain goes on."

You shouldn't judge others by your own standards. They will live with the pain of losing their loved one for the rest of their life. But both his mother & fiancé used the word "comfort" with regard to their full life sentences.

Your signature reads "We all have Human Rights, but they come with Human Responsibilities. Ignore the latter and you risk losing the rights to the former". Well I completely disagree with you. The human rights are inalienable, you cannot take away someone else's human rights, nor can the person give them up, no matter how heinous their actions. Because we MUST be morally above these foul human beings. If we lower ourselves to their level, then they win, because that is EXACTLY what they are striving for. We don't defeat them by joining them in the gutter.

They don't retain their human rights because we like them but because we are better than them.

[SolentShrimp]

Keith.

Did Lee Rigby have a Human Right to life? Was that Human Right to life brutally taken away from him?

Some crimes, this being one, go beyond any further entitlement to Human Rights.

If I changed my views to mirror yours, then so far as I'm concerned I'd be letting myself down, and we'd both be sharing the wrong views. End of.

[mrpotatohead]

Are these somebody elses thoughts and opinions planted in your head solent shrimp, or are you really ignorant, stupid ,and arrogant, bumbling along with a bee in your bonnet without reading other peoples opinions properly, just desperate to have the last word, what a ballbag!

[Keith]

Did Lee Rigby have a Human Right to life?

Yes he did

Was that Human Right to life brutally taken away from him?

Yes it was

Some crimes, this being one, go beyond any further entitlement to Human Rights.

No they don't.

Because, unlike you, I don't want to be dragged down in to the gutter along with Adebolajo and Adebowale. If you want to be in a race to the bottom, as they want, then you carry on. But excuse me for not joining you in doing exactly what they want. Because that is how they win.

[George Dawes]

can I ask If one of your Family members or loved one's were taken hostage and you seen pictures of them on TV in an Orange boiler suit being threatened to be beheaded etc, would you approve this to get them released?

[T]he KGB kidnapped a man they knew to be a close relative of a prominent Hezbollah leader. They then castrated him and sent the severed organs to the Hezbollah official, before dispatching the unfortunate kinsman with a bullet in the brain.

In addition to presenting him with this grisly proof of their seriousness, the KGB operatives also advised the Hezbollah leader that they knew the indentities of other close relatives of his, and that he could expect more such packages if the three Soviet diplomats were not freed immediately.

Soon thereafter, the surviving three hostages were dropped off by the Soviet embassy "from a late-model BMW that couldn't drive away fast enough" and never again was a Soviet (diplomat or otherwise) kidnapped in Lebanon. "This is the way the Soviets operate. They do things - they don't talk. And this is the language the Hezbollah understand." Not only Hezbollah, but ISIS and every other terror group.

[shrimpnsave]

can I ask If one of your Family members or loved one's were taken hostage and you seen pictures of them on TV in an Orange boiler suit being threatened to be beheaded etc, would you approve this to get them released?

[T]he KGB kidnapped a man they knew to be a close relative of a prominent Hezbollah leader. They then castrated him and sent the severed organs to the Hezbollah official, before dispatching the unfortunate kinsman with a bullet in the brain.

In addition to presenting him with this grisly proof of their seriousness, the KGB operatives also advised the Hezbollah leader that they knew the indentities of other close relatives of his, and that he could expect more such packages if the three Soviet diplomats were not freed immediately.

Soon thereafter, the surviving three hostages were dropped off by the Soviet embassy "from a late-model BMW that couldn't drive away fast enough" and never again was a Soviet (diplomat or otherwise) kidnapped in Lebanon. "This is the way the Soviets operate. They do things - they don't talk. And this is the language the Hezbollah understand." Not only Hezbollah, but ISIS and every other terror group.

Who you asking George?

[George Dawes]

anyone.

[shrimpnsave]

Most loved one's would certainly be at their forefront of their mind and would pay the earth for a safe return?who wouldn't ?
What gets my back up is the PPL that do but keep it quiet to save face.....

[George Dawes]

it was a question to the moral crusaders, the correct answer would be no! the said persons family members probably have nothing to do with it.

I dont think Moral Crusaders have double standards.

[Keith]

I was struggling to answer clearly. The closest I can get is, if it was my loved one, would I do that? Yes, anything would be acceptable. If I was in a position of power, making decisions that weren't based upon emotion, then no, it wouldn't be acceptable.

I suppose that would be the case with the death penalty. If someone murdered someone I loved, would I want them to die? Yes, probably. However, that is about 'revenge'. But if you take emotion away, then it shouldn't be about revenge, it is about 'justice'. Society should be looking for justice not revenge.

[Wild Bill]

can you imagine the public outrage when 2 colored murderer's were gunned down on a street in London/the mind boggles!!!

Colored? Written by an African child and nominated by The United Nations
as the Best Poem of 2006.

And you calling me colored??

When I born, I black.
When I grow up, I black.
When I go in sun, I black.
When I scared, I black.
When I sick, I black.
And when I die, I still black.

And you white people.
When you born, you pink.
When you grow up, you white.
When you go in sun, you red.
When you cold, you blue.
When you scared, you yellow.
When you sick, you green
And when you die, you grey…

And you calling me colored??

[shrimpnsave]

I was struggling to answer clearly. The closest I can get is, if it was my loved one, would I do that? Yes, anything would be acceptable. If I was in a position of power, making decisions that weren't based upon emotion, then no, it wouldn't be acceptable.

I suppose that would be the case with the death penalty. If someone murdered someone I loved, would I want them to die? Yes, probably. However, that is about 'revenge'. But if you take emotion away, then it shouldn't be about revenge, it is about 'justice'. Society should be looking for justice not revenge.

Yep Keith and a little mix of emotion with the powers that be wont go amiss also/they dont care what happens as long as it dont effect them which brings me back to Humans...............

[mrpotatohead]

If you need an explanation why 'colored', is considered offensive to black people Shrimpsave ,just ask, but don't ignore Wild Bills poem.

[Wild Bill]

They want more 'ethnic minorities' in the public services so they set 'quotas' - that is they 'positively discriminate' - which means they discriminate against the people they don't want. Yet discrimination is the very thing they consider such a sin.

Think you might want to check equality legislation if you think positive discrimination is currently used, accepted or legal in the UK.

[shrimpnsave]

If you need an explanation why 'colored', is considered offensive to black people Shrimpsave ,just ask, but don't ignore Wild Bills poem.

Why do you bring race into this thread thats get back to the twats that are milking the system?

[SolentShrimp]

Are these somebody elses thoughts and opinions planted in your head solent shrimp, or are you really ignorant, stupid ,and arrogant, bumbling along with a bee in your bonnet without reading other peoples opinions properly, just desperate to have the last word, what a ballbag!

WUM.

[mrpotatohead]

Oh dear.It wasn't ignorance, you knew what you meant, so are actually racist then.

[SolentShrimp]

Oh dear.It wasn't ignorance, you knew what you meant, so are actually racist then.

WUM.

You've got a Human Right to spout, but also have a Human Responsibility for what you spout.

I think I have a Human Right to respond. Where exactly do do you get this racist slur against me from? It's my Human Right to know, and your Human Responsibility to be honest with the facts.

So come on Mr Potatohead?

[shrimpnsave]

Oh dear.It wasn't ignorance, you knew what you meant, so are actually racist then.

Lol middle ground where it all ends up SPUD

[mrpotatohead]

was it a go at you solent?, are you paying attention, I believe not!

[Keith]

WUM.

I think I have a Human Right to respond.
It's my Human Right to know, and your Human Responsibility to be honest with the facts.

Oh the irony, the biggest troll on here complaining that someone is a WUM!

As for the rest, you know fine well that posting on here isn't a Human Right. If it was, it is close to being breached.