The R Word

[fulwoodshrimp]

I know a lot of supporters believe we are safe for this season but I am not at all sure. One point from the last 18 is not an encouraging statistic and looking at the remaining fixtures on current form there are not a lot of points to be gained. I hear how unlucky we have been in some of the recent games but an old adage in sport is the harder you work the luckier you are! I am not sure we have enough spirit, organisation and desire in this current team and the weaknesses in defence are clear for all to see and must be common knowledge amongst the other League 2 teams. I appreciate money is tight but the alternative of this team dragging us into a relegation struggle would be more costly than signing a couple of loan players. A centre half is an urgent priority and an incisive mid-field player would improve this lacklustre squad. Not only is there a huge weakness in the centre of our defence but we allow opposition mid field players the freedom of the park to run at us and create havoc. We need players with heart and passion. Sadly in my opinion we have several players with neither.

[broadwayshrimp]

The thing that worries me is there is often one team in a league that plummets like a stone and gets dragged into a relegation scrap. At the moment that team is looking more and more like us.

[Westgate Wanderer]

The thing that worries me is there is often one team in a league that plummets like a stone and gets dragged into a relegation scrap. At the moment that team is looking more and more like us.

It's definitely us! Look at the form table, we also have the worst defence in the league! Suffered our 9th home defeat yesterday in a match we were just hanging on for a point until the red card. No ambition shown in the second half even though i thought Oxford were running out of ideas. Their star player went off, our striker was unfairly (imo) sent off by the numpty of a ref, then our defense lose concentration for 2 soft goals. Never mind we have the best man for the job in place eh?? Had Oxford been 4 up after 20 minutes we couldn't have complained but our superb equalizer shocked them and put them off their game but we couldn't take any initiative. After the game Ken in the bar said it looked a red to them so doubt we will be appealing it! Mullin replaces Miller but what about other players who play regardless? Worrying times i ndeed

[BoroRedShrimp]

The thing that worries me is there is often one team in a league that plummets like a stone and gets dragged into a relegation scrap. At the moment that team is looking more and more like us.

Yes this team reminds me of Macclesfield a few years back. They went down the league and got relegated. That could be us but hope the players wake up soon before it is too late.

[Keith]

Bizarrely, despite the appalling form, we're closer to the Play Offs that to Relegation positions (12 away from going up, 13 away from going down). I admit, looking down is far more relevant than looking up, but when you look at some of the clubs below us, you'd question how they are going to climb out of their own mire? The odds on York & Dagenham catching us would be slim, in fact them catching us is the same as us making the Play Offs. On their current season long form, Dagenham will get 31 points & York 37 points. Yeovil are also on target for 37 points. I can see teams being relegated with record low points this season.

That said, complacency & poor organisation will see us dropping like a stone over the next few months. For the third season on the trot, I'm thinking 'can't we just end it now?'

Whatever happened to the 'huddle' pre-match?

[John L]

We were recently 16 points clear of the bottom two and 7 points away from the last play-off place. Current form is worrying but is typical of the last few seasons, one of which only saw safety after the penultimate game. Not being negative but realistic in fearing that relegation could be inevitable if there isn't a sustained upturn on or off the field. However, if so, I shall still support my home town club regardless...

[Jettyson]

We will not be relegated this season.Look at the numbers.
We have 36,Daggers 20 from 30 games,York 23 from 29,Yeovil 24 from 30.
Even assuming we get none two of those three have to get a minimum of another 13 from only 16 (or York 17) games.
We will nick the odd point here and there but on current form not many, but I know where I would rather be given a choice between the 4 clubs.Next season no players (6 in contract assuming none sold) is a worry though.

[BerlinWaller]

Seven games at home and eight away. I have just had a quick look at the the remaining fixtures and struggle to see any teams that will be fearing playing us. Stanley will be rampant and looking to get in the play offs, Carlisle will take over 3/4 of our own ground and I reckon York will be hoping they are still in with a chance when they come to our place.
I do think we have just enough points on the board for this season but if it is not this season, we are nailed on for next.

[Morecambe Jack]

. For the third season on the trot, I'm thinking 'can't we just end it now?'

And most of us have been thinking that since October each of those years.

For me, appreciating our financial position, if we have another season like this next season then Jim has to go at the end of his contract.

If Sammy was in charge now, he would have already been sacked and many on here would have been screaming for his head a long time ago. As it happens, most think Jim is their mate so can't say a bad word about him.

[Shrimpy]

. For the third season on the trot, I'm thinking 'can't we just end it now?'

And most of us have been thinking that since October each of those years.

For me, appreciating our financial position, if we have another season like this next season then Jim has to go at the end of his contract.

If Sammy was in charge now, he would have already been sacked and many on here would have been screaming for his head a long time ago. As it happens, most think Jim is their mate so can't say a bad word about him.

If Jim had the same money at his disposal as Sammy did and was producing the same results then he'd probably have been sacked well before now! It's an unfair comparison IMO.

[Morecambe Jack]

It's only unfair if you take a very simple approach to the argument. Crowds were bigger under Sammy allowing for a greater budget. Have our overall financial losses improved under Jim's tenure? No.

Budgets are set by the board not the manager.

Of course, I make reference to Sammy but my point could be any manager in charge other than Jim.

[broadwayshrimp]

The thing is if, and it's a big if at the moment, we keep on losing and the teams below us start picking up odd points here and there 2 things will happen. Those teams will start to gain a bit of confidence and we will suddenly have to start performing under increased pressure. Can we handle it? no I'm not so sure we can. We need another win sooner rather than later to break the downward cycle and hopefully put this to bed.

[Keith]

It's only unfair if you take a very simple approach to the argument.

But it is a very simple argument, so a simple approach is needed!

If Jim had the same budget as Sammy had, would we be in this position? If 'yes', then he'd probably have been sacked already. If 'no', then the issue is largely to do with budget constraints. How many teams do we suspect have a lower budget then us? None? So why do you think another manager, with no money, could do any better? Jim's target every season is to finish third from bottom. If he's exceeding that, it is a success.

However, if the measure of success is entertainment & increasing crowds, then we're failing.

[Morecambe Jack]

The simple answer to your simple approach, Keith, is to look at Accrington.

[Keith]

The simple answer to your simple approach, Keith, is to look at Accrington.

I accept that.

However, I counter that in the exactly the same line of simplicity, you look at:
Barnet, Notts County, Stevenage, Newport, Hartlepool, Yeovil, York & Dagenham & Redbridge.

I actually think our player budget is actually the lowest in the Football League. This season turned on us screwing up big style against Dagenham & Redbridge in the FA Cup. A live game on TV & play against Everton, we'd have cash and be feeling good. Instead, we've yet to recover.

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[Morecambe Jack]

I don't think we do have the lowest budget in the league.

I also think, as I have argued before, that regardless of budgets, salaries, whatever - this team is underperforming. I understand that doesn't sit well with the defeatist attitude that Jim shares with many.

[BerlinWaller]

The Sammy comparison is a valid one. People went mad that he started retreating in to the dugout on match days but Jim is no different. Sammy did not have any training ground in the area and the players had to travel to Preston. Jim has his players training in the area. The one thing we really miss from the Sammy days is Mark Lillis. How we could do with him now!

[MfcChris]

Sammy would not have been sacked at all. He wasn't even getting sacked in his last season where we finished 20th. He decided to leave and infact our board wanted him to stay. Our board love consistency even if going sour.

[John L]

The one thing we really miss from the Sammy days is Mark Lillis. How we could do with him now!

That, my friend, is a great shout!

[Shrimpy]

It's only unfair if you take a very simple approach to the argument. Crowds were bigger under Sammy allowing for a greater budget. Have our overall financial losses improved under Jim's tenure? No.

Budgets are set by the board not the manager.

Of course, I make reference to Sammy but my point could be any manager in charge other than Jim.

I think you're underestimating the difference in budgets between Sammy & Jim. We're not talking the odd few quid here and there, what we're operating with now is worlds away to what Sammy had to work with.

Jim's appointment happened to coincide with PMG hugely reigning back what we were spending on the playing side of things.

[Morecambe Jack]

I am not disputing that this happened Shrimpy, but you are not able to place figures on exactly what our budget was or is and neither can you substantiate how much of a drop has been made. Of course you can throw assumptions out there if you like.

Here are some hard facts for you (publically available on Companies House):

31 May 2014 - Loss £445k (Jim's third season)
31 May 2013 - Loss £793k (Jim's second season)
31 May 2012 - Loss £550k (Jim's first season)
31 May 2011 - Loss £635k (Sammy's final season)

Accrington were rumoured to have a budget of something like £500k on here not so long ago. So what the hell is going wrong if our budget (per Keith) is lower than that?

[Keith]

I am not disputing that this happened Shrimpy, but you are not able to place figures on exactly what our budget was or is and neither can you substantiate how much of a drop has been made. Of course you can throw assumptions out there if you like.

Here are some hard facts for you (publically available on Companies House):

31 May 2014 - Loss £445k (Jim's third season)
31 May 2013 - Loss £793k (Jim's second season)
31 May 2012 - Loss £550k (Jim's first season)
31 May 2011 - Loss £635k (Sammy's final season)

Accrington were rumoured to have a budget of something like £500k on here not so long ago. So what the hell is going wrong if our budget (per Keith) is lower than that?

Are you conflating a playing budget with an operating budget? I suspect that's over-all 'operating losses' and Accrington's 'playing budget'. Even then I suspect their playing budget is more than that. They've 26 players listed in their squad, so that would be less than £20k per player salary.

[KenH]

Rather than a massive reduction in wages budget, the published accounts show a much more modest reduction in total wages (inc football, management, hospitality, shop, etc etc).

I wonder if Jim's player budget has been slashed to pay for other staff, especially since the number of football/management related staff was steady at 36 for the earlier two years, but increased to 42 and then 51 for the latest year. Just who are these extra 15 people? We've a smaller squad, so that''s at least 15 more "non playing" football/management related staff.

31 May 2014 - Total gross wage £1,678,884 (inc 51 football/management related staff) (Jim's third season)
31 May 2013 - Total gross wage £1,799,949 (inc 42 football/management related staff) (Jim's second season)
31 May 2012 - Total gross wage £1,888,190 (inc 36 football/mangement related staff)(Jim's first season)
31 May 2011 - Total gross wage £1,876,790 (inc 36 football/management related staff) Sammy's final season)

Everyone was happy to see Drummy taken on to lead the youngsters and many will be hoping to see Kev taken on in a management/coaching role, but can they actually justify more staff? Are Drummy and Kev replacing staff who are leaving or are they extras? Looking at the numbers, it's off the pitch wages that need reducing not the players. Do we need a fitness coach, do we need an assistant manager, how many staff are needed to run the reserves? Can't Drummy cover as assistant manager if Jim was not available? It does seem that Jim's player budget is taking the brunt of the cuts when there seems to have been extra staff taken on elsewhere.

[MfcChris]

We need players with heart and passion. Sadly in my opinion we have several players with neither.

You could argue, the 3 players with most passion are the only 3 players Jimbo hasn't signed, but that would be unfair.

[Posh]

It's only unfair if you take a very simple approach to the argument. Crowds were bigger under Sammy allowing for a greater budget. Have our overall financial losses improved under Jim's tenure? No.

Budgets are set by the board not the manager.

Of course, I make reference to Sammy but my point could be any manager in charge other than Jim.

I think you're underestimating the difference in budgets between Sammy & Jim. We're not talking the odd few quid here and there, what we're operating with now is worlds away to what Sammy had to work with.

Jim's appointment happened to coincide with PMG hugely reigning back what we were spending on the playing side of things.

There isn't any point in comparing Sammy with Jim. As I understand it from directors and ex-directors Sammy was given a huge budget for our first season at the Globe, roughly £1/2 million more than Jim has now. Whereas Jim was picking up dog poo at the training ground and goes to midweek non-league games to spot talent, Sammy was retired when he stepped in for Jim Harvey and persuaded to stay. He was last in at training and first to leave, played head tennis and wound it up early so he could get off (hence the comments public and private from Shuker, Capaldi, Baker et al. He bought players from his mates and racked up big agent bills because he couldn't be arsed doing the legwork. Then when the mercenaries be bought got us nearly relegated he resigned because we wouldn't give him the money the next season. We'd have gone down if he'd stayed as he blew up at Stockport and Macc. Jim gives a toss and persuades players to join and works hard to get them. His powers may be waining but he's still a man who cares and I'd rather have that any day than someone who would bankrupt us.