EU vote O/T

[slackAlice2]

With respect to Europe as the UK imports more from EU countries than we export to them do you really think they would either stop trading with us or impose tariffs ?

No !

[Keith]

The "vicious cuts" are necessary and are the only way to eliminate a structural deficit which is what was racked up between 2004 and 2008 before the sub-prime bank problems. If you were up to the limit on your credit card do you just carry on spending like a man with no arms or start looking at what payments are made on your credit card and try and cut out making some of the ones that you deem un-necessary ("vicious cuts !)

With respect to Europe as the UK imports more from EU countries than we export to them do you really think they would either stop trading with us or impose tariffs ?

Except... the UK debt is more like your mortgage than your credit card. What the Gorgeous George, who's never been poor, is doing is cutting the money spent weekly on food & electricity, so that he can pay off the mortgage quicker. Great, you pay for your house in half the time, but you are emaciated and your kids didn't get a proper education.

Err, YES! They certainly will impose tariffs on our exports. They'll still sell goods to us (where else would we buy the stuff we import?) but they'll impose tariffs on our exports because they can buy stuff from elsewhere. Our balance of trade will shift dramatically.

But even more fundamentally... if the UK leaves the EU and it is a success, do you think other countries would decide to follow our lead?

Yes.

So the best way to keep the rest of the EU together is to make sure the UK fails. Preferably [from their point of view] dramatically. So trade tariffs and stumbling blocks every step of the way. Expect renegotiations to take a decade, by which time many UK businesses will have gone to the wall.

Do you think there is a logical reason, from the EU perspective, why they would do things differently and make it easier for the UK to be a success?

[Wild Bill]

The "vicious cuts" are necessary and are the only way to eliminate a structural deficit which is what was racked up between 2004 and 2008 before the sub-prime bank problems.

Tell me, how successful have these six years of 'necessary' cuts to public services been? Deficit gone I guess? Debt going down?

To suggest that the structural deficit was created between 2004 and 2008 is also pretty inaccurate.

If the present government were serious about eliminating the deficit they would not have made tax cuts, would have gone seriously after tax avoiders, and looked at big ideas to to stimulate the economy and improve productivity.

Austerity suits their ideology. In their world you look after yourself.

[Gone_Shrimping]

The "vicious cuts" are necessary and are the only way to eliminate a structural deficit which is what was racked up between 2004 and 2008 before the sub-prime bank problems. If you were up to the limit on your credit card do you just carry on spending like a man with no arms or start looking at what payments are made on your credit card and try and cut out making some of the ones that you deem un-necessary ("vicious cuts !)

With respect to Europe as the UK imports more from EU countries than we export to them do you really think they would either stop trading with us or impose tariffs ?

Except... the UK debt is more like your mortgage than your credit card. What the Gorgeous George, who's never been poor, is doing is cutting the money spent weekly on food & electricity, so that he can pay off the mortgage quicker. Great, you pay for your house in half the time, but you are emaciated and your kids didn't get a proper education.

Err, YES! They certainly will impose tariffs on our exports. They'll still sell goods to us (where else would we buy the stuff we import?) but they'll impose tariffs on our exports because they can buy stuff from elsewhere. Our balance of trade will shift dramatically.

But even more fundamentally... if the UK leaves the EU and it is a success, do you think other countries would decide to follow our lead?

Yes.

So the best way to keep the rest of the EU together is to make sure the UK fails. Preferably [from their point of view] dramatically. So trade tariffs and stumbling blocks every step of the way. Expect renegotiations to take a decade, by which time many UK businesses will have gone to the wall.

Do you think there is a logical reason, from the EU perspective, why they would do things differently and make it easier for the UK to be a success?

What we originally joined was a European Common Market. That was a great thing and if it had remained like that the current debate and vote would not have been necessary. It has become an expensive exercise and a real gravy train for career politicians like the Kinnocks who have their noses well and truly in the trough.
We need our sovereignty back so that laws are all decided by the UK elected politicians and are not imposed by beaurocrats in Brussels.

[Gone_Shrimping]

The "vicious cuts" are necessary and are the only way to eliminate a structural deficit which is what was racked up between 2004 and 2008 before the sub-prime bank problems.

Tell me, how successful have these six years of 'necessary' cuts to public services been? Deficit gone I guess? Debt going down?

To suggest that the structural deficit was created between 2004 and 2008 is also pretty inaccurate.

If the present government were serious about eliminating the deficit they would not have made tax cuts, would have gone seriously after tax avoiders, and looked at big ideas to to stimulate the economy and improve productivity.

Austerity suits their ideology. In their world you look after yourself.

So when do you think the structural deficit was created ? It was there before the banking crash Fact.

The deficit has been reduced , debt had to increase to make up the difference between government income and expenditure , that's life !

The current mob have had more success than the previous lot in tackling Tax Avoiders , example Google paying Tax when none was extracted by Brown/Darling.

[shrimpnsave]

You'll no doubt all argue till you're blue in the face for what YOU believe!!!
For me I kinda think this
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely hence why all politicians should never be trusted!
BTW I'm out, EU is so corrupt and nothing less than dictatorship
Incidentally are they democratically voted in by the electorates not

[Gone_Shrimping]

You'll no doubt all argue till you're blue in the face for what YOU believe!!!
For me I kinda think this
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely hence why all politicians should never be trusted!
BTW I'm out, EU is so corrupt and nothing less than dictatorship
Incidentally are they democratically voted in by the electorates not

Your dead right , the EU is a very corrupt organisation. I think I'm right in saying the accounts have not been signed off for it in some time.

[shrimpnsave]

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor ... eu-budget/
Err whats an error

[Joel Ninety]

As long as the Tories are in, whether we are in the EU or not, all we will get is the managed decline of industry, community and individual living standards.

[Phil Anderer]

I find George's suggestion that he is being selfless voting for an exit, because his interests would be better served by staying in. I'm not in anyway suggesting you're lying George, I'm sure yours is an hinestly held belief, but generally I find the exit argument to be selfish, as it takes no account of the benefits to others of our being in the EU. Through our memebership, we help to improve the economies (and therefore lives) of the poorer nations in the EU, and not only by means of their migration into Britain, so there is an element of philanthropy there. Stay with it long enough, and the migrants will hopefully start to make their way back to there improving native countries, after having worked (and paid taxes) here for several years.

As for the benefits to Britain, Keith has hit upon part, in terms of the money coming back in infrastructure and other capital works, not just the West End but the pedestrianised section of Lancaster City Centre has received substantial sums in recent years. Again as Keith said, there are the agricultural subsidies, which the farmers have tried to get the government to commit to maintianing in the event of Brexit, but which promise has yet to arrive. Also we get nearly £1billion back from the EU's R&D budget, which is more than a drop in the ocean against what we put in.

There is also the benefit of our position on the global political scale. Several larger nations have openly stated that they want us to remain in the EU. The only major player that wants ud to leave is Vladimir Putin, because he knows this will destabilise the EU, hopefully (to him) leading to break-up, so he can start to exert influence over the former Soviet states who've joined the EU (& NATO). So if you want to pander to a power-hungry megalomaniac, Vote Leave.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I find George's suggestion that he is being selfless voting for an exit, because his interests would be better served by staying in. I'm not in anyway suggesting you're lying George, I'm sure yours is an hinestly held belief, but generally I find the exit argument to be selfish, as it takes no account of the benefits to others of our being in the EU. Through our memebership, we help to improve the economies (and therefore lives) of the poorer nations in the EU, and not only by means of their migration into Britain, so there is an element of philanthropy there. Stay with it long enough, and the migrants will hopefully start to make their way back to there improving native countries, after having worked (and paid taxes) here for several years.

As for the benefits to Britain, Keith has hit upon part, in terms of the money coming back in infrastructure and other capital works, not just the West End but the pedestrianised section of Lancaster City Centre has received substantial sums in recent years. Again as Keith said, there are the agricultural subsidies, which the farmers have tried to get the government to commit to maintianing in the event of Brexit, but which promise has yet to arrive. Also we get nearly £1billion back from the EU's R&D budget, which is more than a drop in the ocean against what we put in.

There is also the benefit of our position on the global political scale. Several larger nations have openly stated that they want us to remain in the EU. The only major player that wants ud to leave is Vladimir Putin, because he knows this will destabilise the EU, hopefully (to him) leading to break-up, so he can start to exert influence over the former Soviet states who've joined the EU (& NATO). So if you want to pander to a power-hungry megalomaniac, Vote Leave.

This "money coming back in infrastructure and other capital works" , you do know this is a little bit of our own money that the UK has put in being handed back.
If we leave we will have all the money we pay in to the EU to spend on UK projects.
Germany don't want us to leave because they believe German people will see how good it is for us and they will also want to leave.
Leaving a corrupt organisation has to be the right thing to do.

[Phil Anderer]

This "money coming back in infrastructure and other capital works" , you do know this is a little bit of our own money that the UK has put in being handed back.
If we leave we will have all the money we pay in to the EU to spend on UK projects.
Germany don't want us to leave because they believe German people will see how good it is for us and they will also want to leave.
Leaving a corrupt organisation has to be the right thing to do.

Yes I do know it's our money coming back, hence my statement about "more than a drop in the ocean against what we put in".
I'd rather try to straighten out the corruption than walk away to leave it for our friends and neighbours to deal with. I'm very much aware that it is a flawed organisation, hence why I was for many years on the Brexit side of the argument. Whether it's maturity or a mellowing of my political viewpoint I'll leave for others to discuss, but from a formerly ardently anti-EU stance, I am now very much on the opposite side of the argument. I firmly believe membership of the EU is good for us politically, economically and socially, and will continue to support the Remain argument, although not the hideous 'Project Fear' Remain campaign.

[Gone_Shrimping]

If it had remained what it was when we joined , a common market , then no problem about staying in it.

[black morse]

If it had remained what it was when we joined , a common market , then no problem about staying in it.

I agree with this but it was always destined to become a closer union. The only thing that has stopped it becoming a United States of Europe is the flawed euro.

[jona77]

To be honest I'm firmly in the vote leave. If the EU was going to change it would have done by now...it never will! Personally I don't see why someone in another country should be able to dictate our laws and rules. The UK has objected to over 70 rulings the EU have proposed..how many have gone in our favour....ZERO!! Plus I'm pretty sure we are the second highest contributor to the EU gravy trail yet get one of the lowest amounts back!!! The same doom mongers were saying this country was doomed if we didn't adopt the Euro....the same people are spouting the same scare tactics now! The EU was created as a free trade zone but is heading quickly towards a federal superstate which is exactly what a lot of the European politicians wanted as a power to rival the US. I hope folk see sense and opt out as we may never get another chance to vote!

[Keith]

Plus I'm pretty sure we are the second highest contributor to the EU gravy trail yet get one of the lowest amounts back!!!

Germany, France & Italy all contribute more than the UK.
Twenty countries received less money from the EU than us.

The more accurate measure, is that only France & Germany are bigger net contributors than the UK.

This "money coming back in infrastructure and other capital works" , you do know this is a little bit of our own money that the UK has put in being handed back.
If we leave we will have all the money we pay in to the EU to spend on UK projects.

Got to admit, the Tories have a long and proud history of spending money on development projects in disadvantaged areas that help the poorest & most vulnerable in our society.

Oh, hang on, no, I meant tax cuts for the wealthy, a long and proud history of tax cuts for the wealthy. Always get those two mixed up. Yup, more money for the wealthy, less for the vulnerable. Less manufacturing jobs. Less development money. Possibly agriculture cuts for an already decimated industry. What could possibly go wrong?

[shrimpnsave]

Keith,can you hold your hand up and say categorically that you Know the pro's an con's coz everyery one I have spoke to have all said they are not sure which way to vote because we (general public) have not been fed the informative information needed to make that vote
Was it Labour that said we should not have the vote because people aren't clever enough to make that decision

[Keith]

Keith,can you hold your hand up and say categorically that you Know the pro's an con's coz everyery one I have spoke to have all said they are not sure which way to vote because we (general public) have not been fed the informative information needed to make that vote
Was it Labour that said we should not have the vote because people aren't clever enough to make that decision

I've made my mind up based on balancing the evidence that we do have and how I expect it to pan out. Every time I ask someone who supports 'out' to tell me what I'm getting wrong in what I'm saying, they never do. "Sovereignty"? I'm not even sure what that means? In literal terms, we have a queen ('sovereign'). The EU legislation trumps UK and imposes law that 'we' don't want. Such as? Votes for prisoners? I'm not sure that the risks of job losses and removal of money from deprived areas is worth it so that we can stop prisoners from having the vote.

I think both sides are banging out propaganda, some of it ridiculous (like yesterday, the claim that the increase in unemployment was down to businesses being worried about exiting the EU so not taking people on... ...bollocks!)

I genuinely don't see enough positives for coming out. There won't be any increases in jobs, but probably will be a loss of jobs. There won't be an increase in investment in to disadvantaged areas but probably will be a reduction. I doubt if there will be an increase in security from terrorism (we're not in Schengen anyway) There will be a net financial benefit but in real terms it isn't huge and I doubt if it will be invested in the betterment of the country, it will go on further tax cuts or perhaps some debt reduction (but mainly tax cuts). And I genuinely think that the EU will go out of their way to make sure an exiting country fails, because that is the best way to protect themselves.

There is too much risk of irreparable damage and not enough likelihood for benefit, in my opinion.

[George Dawes]

the visit by the USA president is causing some stir, Obama needs to keep out if this, you can tell he's been put up to this, just scare tactics.

it's being reported that since 2015

USA trade export to the UK 56.3 billion.

USA trade export to the EU(22 countries) 52.2 billion.

www.trade.gov

[George Dawes]

These recent local elections, never got a poll card through the door, nor did anybody I know, aapprently, you just turned up with your post code and name?

why weren't people notified properly?

got one for the local police commissioner.

hope they don't do this with the EU referendum, knowing how ordinary people will vote, it's out of order.

[Trevor]

That's cos we didn't have local elections in our district. Just the police commissioner, a couple of city council and county one's where councilors had stood down.

[George Dawes]

That's cos we didn't have local elections in our district. Just the police commissioner, a couple of city council and county one's where councilors had stood down.

that's what I thought, but somebody I know told me he never got one and just turned up and voted just being asked his name and post code, can't see him making it up.

[Trevor]

Yeah. If he was voting for police bloke or if he was in a ward where there was a byelection, that's fine. Everyone who could vote was given notice of the elections through their letterboxes.

[George Dawes]

Yeah. If he was voting for police bloke or if he was in a ward where there was a byelection, that's fine. Everyone who could vote was given notice of the elections through their letterboxes.

yeah, might be that, misunderstanding ,was pretty pissed

[marky No.1]

7,500,000 people not registered to vote and are not on the Electoral Register

They have till 7th June

https://www.eureferendum.gov.uk/register-to-vote/