EU vote O/T

[Gone_Shrimping]

Not competing in the Eurovision Song Contest would frankly be the least of our problems.

This once great nation would be reduced to a virtual wasteland. Ostracised by our nearest neighbours !

House prices would plummet, Massive job losses, Household income reduced, cost of holidays increased, Pensions reduced , nobody will want to trade with us , The Americans will be annoyed with us as well and it might even threaten the "special relationship".
To mention just a few of the predictions from the 'Remains'.[/quote]

Are Switzerland and Norway "virtual wastelands" ?[/quote]

I think you may have mistaken my cynical remarks for serious debate 'Gone Shrimping'.
I have been disgusted at how hysterical the arguments have been from both sides, but the 'Remain' claims are outrageous ! Little if anything claimed by Cameron et al holds any validity , but it works, people believe this stuff !
I was shocked to see how close the polls currently are, the Remain hold a slender lead , so it might be that this Remain scare story stuff is making your 'undecided' voter suspicious.
Most serious commentators believe there will be a hiatus economically should we come out and there would obviously need to be be renegotiations here , there and everywhere. But any actual numbers / percentages/ economic meltdown predictions are disingenuous.
Its not that long ago that Cameron himself was a Eurosceptic. Rolling out the world and his wife to tell us how bad things COULD get is desperate.[/quote]

I realised that after I posted but couldn't be bothered to go back and delete !

[shrimpnsave]

I have said my piece re Brexit...my decision is made. However,in reality to stay or not to stay affects our kids more than myself. Just remember this though,as well as the amount given weekly to the EU there is also the foreign aid budget which I believe is....12.2 billion per year! Can you believe that!! So, consider this...if Brexit does indeed take place several issues must be addressed.No longer can we as a nation allow massive sums of money be given to all and sundry, it MUST stop except in genuine obvious need.The manner of government is dated and must also change. In short the road will be bumpy but the rewards are tremendous.....

[George Dawes]

I have said my piece re Brexit...my decision is made. However,in reality to stay or not to stay affects our kids more than myself. Just remember this though,as well as the amount given weekly to the EU there is also the foreign aid budget which I believe is....12.2 billion per year! Can you believe that!! So, consider this...if Brexit does indeed take place several issues must be addressed.No longer can we as a nation allow massive sums of money be given to all and sundry, it MUST stop except in genuine obvious need.The manner of government is dated and must also change. In short the road will be bumpy but the rewards are tremendous.....

where did you copy and paste that?

[shrimpnsave]

Regarding foreign aid, It's not logical to borrow more and more money, to give so much of it away to foreign countries. Especially when we are repeatedly told we are in debt. Our political masters are total numbskulls. The young are naive and will see the errors of their way in the future.

[Keith]

Just remember this though,as well as the amount given weekly to the EU there is also the foreign aid budget which I believe is....12.2 billion per year! Can you believe that!! ...it MUST stop except in genuine obvious need.

Indeed. Far better to give it in tax cuts to the needy rich. Can't they eat cake?

[shrimpnsave]

On a positive note the £279million UK sends to India has ceased 2015

[Phil Anderer]

Regarding foreign aid, It's not logical to borrow more and more money, to give so much of it away to foreign countries. Especially when we are repeatedly told we are in debt. Our political masters are total numbskulls. The young are naive and will see the errors of their way in the future.

I have to say that seems a somewhat arrogant statement. 'I know better than you and eventually you'll agree with me.' When I was younger, I was on the Brexit side. In middle age I've swung the other way entirely. I think the reason the young are more pro-Remain is that, generally, they have a more progressive, open outlook on life, whilst the older people are more set in their ways and less open to change. Unfortunately no one on the Remain side is making the positive case for staying, instead mounting an extremely aggressive, scare-mongering campaign. I don't think either side is making a good case, and whilst it doesn't affect me, as my mind is made up, it does worry me that those undecided aren't having a meaningful, well-constructed case made from which they can make an educated decision.

[RapidShrimp]

Everyone vote on this poll! IN OR OUT?! http://www.strawpoll.me/10358686

[George Dawes]

it's little things what restrict us with trade in the EU

my Step Fathers and two step brothers all worked on fishing trawlers in the 70s 80s sailing from Heysham Harbiur and Glasson Dock and all made a good living from it, until company's with bigger boats with bigger nets dominated the industry.

but even now the bigger boats(British owned) now struggle due to EU restrictions losing a lot of our territory.

it's Barmy were an Island surrounded by water, and yet have to import fish

[Keith]

Unfortunately no one on the Remain side is making the positive case for staying, instead mounting an extremely aggressive, scare-mongering campaign. I don't think either side is making a good case, and whilst it doesn't affect me, as my mind is made up, it does worry me that those undecided aren't having a meaningful, well-constructed case made from which they can make an educated decision.

Completely agree, sadly.

[Christies Child]

I doubt either really knows what will happen in the future and as for suggesting that house prices will fall
........on what knowing basis do they make such a claim.....

[slackAlice2]

Phil Anderer

I think the reason the young are more pro-Remain is that, generally, they have a more progressive, open outlook on life, whilst the older people are more set in their ways and less open to change.

There's a touch of 'arrogance' about the above as well if you don't mind me saying so. Its a sweeping generalization on both groups of people. "The Young" , at least the ones in my family and their friends all lean slightly towards Remain but when you examine their reasons it tends to be because they don't want to risk 'all the nasty things that could happen if they leave' (Remains media scare stories ?) - "Why change things we've always been in and everything seems to work fine" sort of thing.
Whereas the 'older generation' Brexit types could perhaps be viewed as more progressive or at least remembering a time when we weren't in the EU and things worked fine and can envisage a future of complete self determination and independence.

[Keith]

...and as for suggesting that house prices will fall

That's likely to attract the younger people to vote whichever way would cause house prices to fall!

[Phil Anderer]

Phil Anderer

I think the reason the young are more pro-Remain is that, generally, they have a more progressive, open outlook on life, whilst the older people are more set in their ways and less open to change.

There's a touch of 'arrogance' about the above as well if you don't mind me saying so. Its a sweeping generalization on both groups of people. "The Young" , at least the ones in my family and their friends all lean slightly towards Remain but when you examine their reasons it tends to be because they don't want to risk 'all the nasty things that could happen if they leave' (Remains media scare stories ?) - "Why change things we've always been in and everything seems to work fine" sort of thing.
Whereas the 'older generation' Brexit types could perhaps be viewed as more progressive or at least remembering a time when we weren't in the EU and things worked fine and can envisage a future of complete self determination and independence.

To be honest, the idea of the older generation wanting change by wanting Brexit occurred to me after I'd posted, and since I'd already lit the blue touchpaper, I retired. I first heard the argument about 'remembering a time when we weren't in the EU' the other day, from an older Brexit voter, although it was more in the sense of 'nostalgia', and it was an argument she (and I) rejected. Her argument was for self-determination, saying we can 'stand on our own to feet'. I totally agree that we can, I just don't think we should. As I said in my post, I'm utterly against the scare mongering tactics of the Remain campaign, albeit I still agree with their goals, just not their methods. As for arrogance, at least I said 'I think', leaving the way for a discussion. Shrimpnsave effectively said 'I'm right, they're wrong, and when they grow up they'll agree with me'. That's what I saw as arrogant.

[George Dawes]

going by last nights live tv debate on sky news with Cameron getting grilled, I think there's a good mix of educated younger ones, who like the majority of us who want out, wanting our own powers back.

another live dabate tonight on sky news, but with the Brexit getting grilled off a live audience.

[black morse]

Let's look at it this way -
Those that want out vote leave
Those that want to stay in and are satisfied to leave it as it is vote LEAVE

[Dickhead]

I think the correct answer is. LEAVE...

[shrimpnsave]

I think the correct answer is. LEAVE...

Absolutely correct LEAVE.....

[George Dawes]

what is interesting, there's reporters now claiming that there is a 'Media Blackout' untill the vote on the referendum is over, with protests and riots with groups clashing in France and Sweden Germany due to open borders not on our main steam news channels, and that people have a right to know.

so been on google to see if it's not just bullshit by Brexit campaigners , and it's now got me wondering why...

[mrpotatohead]

Gove was clueless yesterday with his '' Lets leave and hope for tbe best'' attitude , a bit like a WW1 Captain shouting, ''come on lads, over the barricades'' , without having a clue what lies head.

The telling comment, when asked to name a single economist anywhere supporting the BREXIT, was a feeble, ''Economists do sometimes get things wrong'', ffs!

[George Dawes]

Gove was clueless yesterday with his '' Lets leave and hope for tbe best'' attitude , a bit like a WW1 Captain shouting, ''come on lads, over the barricades'' , without having a clue what lies head.

The telling comment, when asked to name a single economist anywhere supporting the BREXIT, was a feeble, ''Economists do sometimes get things wrong'', ffs!

maybe Gove is being honest, instead of telling Lies to get out of trouble like Cameron.

And one thing is for sure, Gove got a better reception than Cameron and a better applause from the audience .

[Phil Anderer]

Gove was clueless yesterday with his '' Lets leave and hope for tbe best'' attitude , a bit like a WW1 Captain shouting, ''come on lads, over the barricades'' , without having a clue what lies head.

The telling comment, when asked to name a single economist anywhere supporting the BREXIT, was a feeble, ''Economists do sometimes get things wrong'', ffs!

maybe Gove is being honest, instead of telling Lies to get out of trouble like Cameron.

And one thing is for sure, Gove got a better reception than Cameron and a better applause from the audience .

But then Sky is part of Murdoch's empire, which is broadly right of centre. How it would have played on the BBC might be very different. Interesting that in today's Times (also Murdoch's) Gove was portrayed in a not very good light. Didn't get yesterday's, so don't know what they said about Cameron.

[George Dawes]

the BBC

boys n girls boys n girls let's just brush that under the carpet quickly, Jim'll fix it..

[Phil Anderer]

:roll: the BBC

boys n girls boys n girls let's just brush that under the carpet quickly, Jim'll fix it..

And that is the retort of the Brexit camp. No constructive argument, just a snide comment. The best Brexit has in support is Donald Trump. After that it's Putin & Islamic State: no wonder they don't want Obama expressing an opinion, since no one with anything approaching that gravitas supports Leave.

[shrimpnsave]

what is interesting, there's reporters now claiming that there is a 'Media Blackout' untill the vote on the referendum is over, with protests and riots with groups clashing in France and Sweden Germany due to open borders not on our main steam news channels, and that people have a right to know.

so been on google to see if it's not just bullshit by Brexit campaigners , and it's now got me wondering why...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHzUnOya7Mw