EU vote O/T

[George Dawes]

:roll: the BBC

boys n girls boys n girls let's just brush that under the carpet quickly, Jim'll fix it..

And that is the retort of the Brexit camp. No constructive argument, just a snide comment. The best Brexit has in support is Donald Trump. After that it's Putin & Islamic State: no wonder they don't want Obama expressing an opinion, since no one with anything approaching that gravitas supports Leave.

it's just the remark you made about sky being right of centre , and then you suggesting that the BBC have more credibility, they have been accused before on question time for cherry picking audiences and they already know what questions what will be asked before they go on air, I know this because I know people who went to the one in Morecambe. so they get better controle and paint a better picture to sway viewers.

[Phil Anderer]

:roll: the BBC

boys n girls boys n girls let's just brush that under the carpet quickly, Jim'll fix it..

And that is the retort of the Brexit camp. No constructive argument, just a snide comment. The best Brexit has in support is Donald Trump. After that it's Putin & Islamic State: no wonder they don't want Obama expressing an opinion, since no one with anything approaching that gravitas supports Leave.

it's just the remark you made about sky being right of centre , and then you suggesting that the BBC have more credibility, they have been accused before on question time for cherry picking audiences and they already know what questions what will be asked before they go on air, I know this because I know people who went to the one in Morecambe. so they get better controle and paint a better picture to sway viewers.

George, I wasn't suggesting BBC were more credible, but rather that they were left of centre where Sky might be right of centre. That was why I thought the outcome would be different.

[Zip It Shrimpy]

So back to the grounds of the decision. The economic argument has well and truly been won by REMAIN, but that's OK because most who want out would contest that it's a price worth paying. That just leaves whether we want migrant workers & to help refugees, and whether we can recover our sovereignty. Can we please now move on to these two subjects?

[Zip It Shrimpy]

Here are my thoughts on migration: I'm embarrassed to admit to being British with our unacceptable response to those fleeing war zones. It's totally unacceptable to set a limit of 30 thousand when Germany and Greece are fully doing their part by taking millions. We are the 5th largest economic power FFS. if we want to improve on 5th then 3rd and 4th, Germany and Japan both with 80 million population, we're either going to have to work harder or accept that they're coming here because our economy needs them.

[George Dawes]

So back to the grounds of the decision. The economic argument has well and truly been won by REMAIN, but that's OK because most who want out would contest that it's a price worth paying. That just leaves whether we want migrant workers & to help refugees, and whether we can recover our sovereignty. Can we please now move on to these two subjects?

1) Even if we leave, we will still have migrant workers but we will controle the numbers and skills to benefit the areas needed,

2) We've always helped refugees, and i dont think leaving the EU will stop that, people should not confuse these with economic migrants and chancers pretending to be refugees.

3) A lot of brexiters think its just like moving house, we'll have plenty of time it wont happen over night, it will be like setting up or resetting new deals, with energy suppliers insurers, broadband, sky tv, and telling the bank a change of address before you move in,

[Keith]

3) A lot of brexiters think its just like moving house, we'll have plenty of time it wont happen over night, it will be like setting up or resetting new deals, with energy suppliers insurers, broadband, sky tv, and telling the bank a change of address before you move in,

If you are going with that as an analogy...

Brexiters are saying we need to accept whatever offer is made for our house and we're moving to somewhere new but we've not viewed it yet and don't know if we will be able to afford the mortgage (or even how much the mortgage will go up by? (Oh hang on, that one is literally true, not an analogy). We don't even know if it is commuting distance of work, but don't worry, we can sort it all out later, no need to think about it yet... plenty of time... it will all work out... and anyway, we don't need to think about where we will live, just make sure there aren't any foreigners on the new street, that's what really matters.

[Phil Anderer]

3) A lot of brexiters think its just like moving house, we'll have plenty of time it wont happen over night, it will be like setting up or resetting new deals, with energy suppliers insurers, broadband, sky tv, and telling the bank a change of address before you move in,

If you are going with that as an analogy...

Brexiters are saying we need to accept whatever offer is made for our house and we're moving to somewhere new but we've not viewed it yet and don't know if we will be able to afford the mortgage (or even how much the mortgage will go up by? (Oh hang on, that one is literally true, not an analogy). We don't even know if it is commuting distance of work, but don't worry, we can sort it all out later, no need to think about it yet... plenty of time... it will all work out... and anyway, we don't need to think about where we will live, just make sure there aren't any foreigners on the new street, that's what really matters.

Ouch!

[George Dawes]

3) A lot of brexiters think its just like moving house, we'll have plenty of time it wont happen over night, it will be like setting up or resetting new deals, with energy suppliers insurers, broadband, sky tv, and telling the bank a change of address before you move in,

If you are going with that as an analogy...

Brexiters are saying we need to accept whatever offer is made for our house and we're moving to somewhere new but we've not viewed it yet and don't know if we will be able to afford the mortgage (or even how much the mortgage will go up by? (Oh hang on, that one is literally true, not an analogy). We don't even know if it is commuting distance of work, but don't worry, we can sort it all out later, no need to think about it yet... plenty of time... it will all work out... and anyway, we don't need to think about where we will live, just make sure there aren't any foreigners on the new street, that's what really matters.

but say if your house is to be repossessed because your hours are being reduced even further because you on a zero hour contract(no employment rights) but you get offered a lifeline another job what takes about a 40min drive, but it's full time and you get a full employment legal binding contract, working for an Indian company, who have branches in other commonwealth country's and trade well, and the house next door to yours whats been for sale for ages gets bought and you find out your new neighbours are Chinese, and so you get chatting to them and then find out the bloke also works at the same place as you and you car share, sharing traveling costs, happy days.

and live happily ever after.

[Phil Anderer]

3) A lot of brexiters think its just like moving house, we'll have plenty of time it wont happen over night, it will be like setting up or resetting new deals, with energy suppliers insurers, broadband, sky tv, and telling the bank a change of address before you move in,

If you are going with that as an analogy...

Brexiters are saying we need to accept whatever offer is made for our house and we're moving to somewhere new but we've not viewed it yet and don't know if we will be able to afford the mortgage (or even how much the mortgage will go up by? (Oh hang on, that one is literally true, not an analogy). We don't even know if it is commuting distance of work, but don't worry, we can sort it all out later, no need to think about it yet... plenty of time... it will all work out... and anyway, we don't need to think about where we will live, just make sure there aren't any foreigners on the new street, that's what really matters.

but say if your house is to be repossessed because your hours are being reduced even further because you on a zero hour contract(no employment rights) but you get offered a lifeline another job what takes about a 40min drive, but it's full time and you get a full employment legal binding contract, working for an Indian company, who have branches in other commonwealth country's and trade well, and the house next door to yours whats been for sale for ages gets bought and you find out your new neighbours are Chinese, and so you get chatting to them and then find out the bloke also works at the same place as you and you car share, sharing traveling costs, happy days.

and live happily ever after.

George, I know you have this bee in your bonnet about zero hours contracts, but it's got absolutely sod all to do with the EU. In fact, the Remain campaign, as one of its positive arguments, mainly from the left, is that the EU protects workers rights, while the Brexit camp is arguing that EU red tape, particularly in relation to employment law, is hampering businesses in this country. What you've actually come up with there is an argument for Remain, not Leave. Nice to see you've come over from the Dark Side.

[George Dawes]

... Parliament was on TV before, showing Jeremy Corbyn, a former Brexiter(but now remain party policy) Attacking Cameron and the Tory party about these zero hour contracts.

it all depends who were to lead after a Brexit, I think the Tory's would still shaft working class, where as Labour I would like to think they would back unions up and workers rights, like they were known for.

[Phil Anderer]

... Parliament was on TV before, showing Jeremy Corbyn, a former Brexiter(but now remain party policy) Attacking Cameron and the Tory party about these zero hour contracts.

it all depends who were to lead after a Brexit, I think the Tory's would still shaft working class, where as Labour I would like to think they would back unions up and workers rights, like they were known for.

On the subject of zero hours contracts, and off EU for a moment, I'm pretty certain I've said this before, but in and of themselves, zero hours contracts aren't necessarily that bad. Surveys tend to show many, I think over half of, people on them are quite happy, usually because it allows them flexibility. What I agree is needed is more protection for those on zero hours, so that it isn't as heavily waited in favour of the employer. The worst thing, which I'm not sure if it's already been addressed, is preventing people taking other employment. You can't refuse to guarantee someone work and at the same time prevent them getting work elsewhere.

As a freelancer, Mrs A effectively has several zero hours contracts, the work she does coming primarily from three of them. They all know about the others, and it's all within the terms of the contracts. She's able to take the work she wants, but if a job's too far away or doesn't pay enough for the work involved, she can turn it down. If all zero hours contracts worked that way, it would be fine, but unfortunately due to the nature of the work many of them are applied to, it doesn't happen.

I would argue that if someone on a zero hours contract is consistently doing a 35-hour week or more over a period of, say 3-4 months, then a permanent contract should be forthcoming, unless it is is an expressly seasonal industry, where it is known in advance by the employee that once the 'season' is over, the work will no longer be available, or the volumes will dramatically reduce. If things are expressed like that in advance, and agreed by both parties, and at the end of the 'season' the employee is free to work elsewhere, again there should be no issue, in my opinion. I know I'm by no means capturing every eventuality here, but I am trying to expose this myth that all zero hours contracts are evil and detrimental to the employee, although I do agree that they tend to be weighted in the employer's favour.

[Keith]

I totally agree with everything Phil has said, although even seasonal contracts could be for a fixed term, same as maternity cover. We use a lot of occasional hours contracts. We have our regular hours covered by normally contracted staff, then use occasional hours staff to cover annual leave or sickness etc. They receive the same checks & training as our regular staff, so we know the standard is what we are expecting. There isn't an expectation that they will be available, so many people do this in conjunction with other work. The only expectations are that they make themselves available for training and they do some work during a six month period. If unavailable for six months, the contract ends. But again, this is about maintaining standards.

Many of our regular staff began working with us on an occasional contract. They are then in the right place when a normal contract becomes available.

Used properly, occasional hours contracts are a very useful tool. Without them, we'd be forced to use agency staff (which is another form of 'occasional hours') but we'd have no control over the quality and it would cost more due to agency fees.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I'm getting worried that in the EU Referendum I will be voting the same way as Dennis Skinner

[Phil Anderer]

I'm getting worried that in the EU Referendum I will be voting the same way as Dennis Skinner

Don't then.

[Zip It Shrimpy]

That is worrying. He's just as rabid as Farage.

[George Dawes]

Skinner is straight talking, shoots from the hip.

Dodgy Dave Cameron, I'm a tea pot short n stout, open my mouth and shite comes out.

[Keith]

but say if your house is to be repossessed because your hours are being reduced even further because you on a zero hour contract(no employment rights) but you get offered a lifeline another job what takes about a 40min drive, but it's full time and you get a full employment legal binding contract, working for an Indian company, who have branches in other commonwealth country's and trade well, and the house next door to yours whats been for sale for ages gets bought and you find out your new neighbours are Chinese, and so you get chatting to them and then find out the bloke also works at the same place as you and you car share, sharing traveling costs, happy days.

and live happily ever after.

Yes... but the house isn't about to be repossessed and the hours aren't being cut further. So you don't need to change anything at the moment. The job is secure. You might not be getting the paid tea break that you are entitled to, but that's no reason to jack it all in and face an uncertain future.

Exiting EU is cutting nose to spite face. As was your analogy.

[George Dawes]

I think we will flourish, think positive and we won't look back.

i also like the idea like some predict if we were to leave, others would follow, so that the EU collapses altogether.

level playing field then, suit ourselves .


John Cleese as got involved in the Brexit, saying what have the EU(Romans) done for us, and goes onto name a high list of problems, it's pretty funny, like the scene on The Monty Pyhton Film 'Life of Brian' but it's true with valid points.

[marky No.1]

Mrs Camerons dad benefits a lot from Europe

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670181 ... -subsidies

[shrimpnsave]

The EU is doomed and unworkable whatever the outcome....

[Keith]

I think we will flourish, think positive and we won't look back.

That is EXACTLY what worries me! The exiters plan is 'think positively and it will be okay'. No real planning and no real thought as to what will happen.

i also like the idea like some predict if we were to leave, others would follow, so that the EU collapses altogether.

level playing field then, suit ourselves .

Great. So the best we can come up with is to hope that the EU fails so we can all be level? But by then, the UK is likely to be screwed. The way that the EU will stay together is by making sure that the UK fail on leaving, which will dissuade other countries from leaving. I agree, if the UK leave and are successful, then yes, the EU will fall apart. They know that. So they will block the UK at every stage.

In the mean time, we sign up to TTIP. How many weeks paid leave do American workers receive by law? Answer? Slightly less than one. US companies coming to the UK will offer similar terms & conditions and the UK will have signed up to TTIP, to allow them to do so. Many workers' rights in the US are worse than in the UK. When Boris & Nigel want to rip up those pesky EU rules & regulations, which ones do you think they are aiming at? Workers' Rights? If anything TTIP is more worrying than the EU referendum as it will lead to weaker rights for workers & the dismantling of the NHS.

If you are a wealthy employer, who wants to invest in private health companies, or you sell health insurance, then you will do well out of it. If you are a worker or a supporter of the NHS, you need to start worrying.

If you are a working person who supports (or relies) on the NHS AND support Brexit, then you really need to think positively... because that's the only thing you'll have to help you

[shrimpnsave]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/678889 ... ge-osborne

[Keith]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/678889/sir-james-dyson-eu-referendum-brexit-david-cameron-george-osborne

Except... would the UK put tariffs on imported items from the EU? They might, as Dyson says. But that will lead to a huge jump in inflation, with the knock on effect upon interest rates. So mortgage repayments would go up dramatically.

And yes, Dyson is right, we'd quickly sign up to a trade agreement with the USA (TTIP). At the moment the EU is stopping that happening.

I read the Express article in full, now please read this and understand that this is what an 'out' vote is for...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 79688.html

[George Dawes]

Its gonna be tight this election, brilliant debate on BBC tonight, they've got the balance right for a change on this one.

[mrpotatohead]

The bookies don't see it as tight, nor do any ''BREXITEERS'' if you ask them if they fancy a bet