PMG Leisure

[Shrimpy]

PMG Leisure went into administration yesterday:

https://m.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2677540

Peter McGuigan and Diego Lemos listed as directors.

What parts of the football club does this cover? The all weather pitches?

[mrpotatohead]

''Oh what tangled webs we weave!''

[shrimper]

I know what this means. But I don't know what it "means"...if you know what I mean.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I've known about this for around a week and I don't know what it means either if you know what I mean !

[P/T Indie]

Well I suppose Diego can't own that part of us if it gets wound up.

I never understood why we had different companies anyway.

[RedRedWine]

Looks like this happened before Christmas. I didn't know that there was a unsatisfied charge against the 3G pitches? The land appears to have been remortgaged to Barclays according to companies house, I assume they are the major creditor.

[mrpotatohead]

''F##king mess.

[Zippy]

Let's hope this is part of a strategy to minimize the impacts on the football club dimension of the business.?

[Posh]

Sadly I heard this was coming before Christmas. PMG Leisure own the community block and the all-weather pitches. It is a ridiculous structure for a football club like ours but it might be the only way to save the club.

My understanding is that PMG Leisure has a huge mortgage on it from the Co-Op Bank. This loan apparently was sold by the Co-Op to another bank, which then called it in. PMG had, according to the documents filed at Companies House, personal guarantees on this mortgage so the collapse will hurt him financially if those personal guarantees are still in place. The full details are here if you want to find the numbers https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 44/charges.

The problem for Morecambe FC is that Barclays loan / mortgage charge on the club is secured against PMG Leisure (again details on that link). That isn't there any more so Barclays may now look to wind up the club. The final dominos are falling and we can only cross our fingers for last minute salvation but with no owner present, directors running it by proxy and falling revenues it don't look good.

[Posh]

P.S. How this plays out now is crucial to the future of the club. The land and buildings owned by PMG Leisure is home to Morecambe FC Community Sports, the club's academy and also the police's match day control point. If the wrong person or company acquires the business it would be the end of the club, even if the club as a company survives, because they could deny access to the buildings.

Morecambe FC as a company hangs on a knife edge. There is little point in Barclays pulling the plug as they would get nothing so they may as well hang in there and hope. The problems is HMRC and smaller creditors placing a winding up order, which the club would struggle to survive.

PMG won't regain ownership for up to four months, a figure told to me by a director. Even if he does get his shares back, what then? My understanding is that the secret council meeting was PMG going cap in hand to get a loan from a council (LCC or MTC) to keep the club afloat prior to a sale. There is no money and even if someone had some who would give it to a Diego controlled company?

Is our best hope for the future administration, a friendly consortium backed by the Supporters Trust snapping up both companies, key debts settled, a 10 point deduction leaving us level with Newport and four points behind Cheltenham. This would galvanise everyone to push for Football League survival under new ownership with our company structure and some debt cleared up???

Finally, PMG Leisure went into administration on 20 December, yet it was being still denied last week. Make of that what you will.

[Shrimpy]

Excellent couple of posts Posh, very revealing.

The penalty for going into administration is now 12 points.

[P/T Indie]

"There is no money and even if someone had some who would give it to a Diego controlled company?"

Noone in their right mind and this is the problem when the club are looking for sponsors etc who would give the club any decent sum of money at the moment, you wouldn't know where your money is going.

There are only two options one like you say we go into administration and get bought back by some friendly local businessmen (like the current or x directors) but even then they would have to work extremely hard to win the trust back and get local businesses to give the club money. Also any new owner isn't going to have a bottomless pile of cash to keep covering 800K losses and some point we will need to cut our cloth and find our natural level for our crowds.

Option 2 we fold and start again and sell it to the local area that we are a community based, supporters run club. We try to work on the good will of the people in a way playing the charity card and hope they respond and see that their money is going to a good cause.

What worries me is I really don't know if we have the fan base or even the will of the towns people to start again realistically wouldn't you need a hardcore support of 2000ish+.

So option one might be the best but still how would the new owners turn it around they would need a very good plan otherwise they will just face the same problems as the current owners/board.

[Lloydie]

http://www.thevisitor.co.uk/news/morecambe-fc-chairman-s-firm-goes-into-administration-1-8316432

[KenH]

So option one might be the best but still how would the new owners turn it around they would need a very good plan otherwise they will just face the same problems as the current owners/board.

If any potential new owners don't have lots of money to develop the club, i.e. hotel, offices, etc., then the "football" club as a whole needs to be made smaller and just concentrates on the football, i.e. get rid of the bits that aren't bringing in money such as the community, all weather pitches, academy, etc. - all "nice to have" but if they're costing money, then simply not viable in the current situation. Then they need to franchise-out the hospitality, boxes, W&L and downstairs bar to professionals to run, so the club itself receives regular rental income and doesn't have the time/overhead requirement of marketing and running those non-football areas. Finally, even the refreshment counters could be run by a professional firm or self employed owner/managers, again bring in regular rents without the admin/management - in the same way that some hospitals use outside firms to run their canteens/cafes. Then all the "football" club needs to do is concentrate on the directly related activities such as advertising/sponsorship, match day stewards/security/policing, etc., pitch and ground maintenance, and of course the team itself and the coaching/management. The club could be a lot leaner and with far lower overheads. PMG's grand plans just havn't worked as we never brought in proper skilled/qualified management to run such a large organisation with so many different activities.

[parceldave]

So what was in all this for Diego from the onset? is he held accountable in any way if he has left the country? and how if it is in the club's best interest do you remove him from his current position if he refuses to give or sell his shares back?

[Edited Keith]

[jon MFC fan]

Liquidate the part that he is associated with

[parceldave]

Liquidate the part that he is associated with

That's Mfc then isn't it .

[KenH]

Liquidate the part that he is associated with

That's Mfc then isn't it .

He's the majority shareholder in both PMG Leisure (community, pitches and buildings behind the globe) and the club itself.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Excellent couple of posts Posh, very revealing.

The penalty for going into administration is now 12 points.

We have accrued 15 points since August so it would almost certainly mean relegation.

[mrpotatohead]

Just for clarity, we will not get a duduction for this, it's the Leisure company not the football club company, and ''Diego'' may actually not be a conman, just a very poor businessman with less miney than thought, ..........and theres a few of them about!

[Trevor]

So option one might be the best but still how would the new owners turn it around they would need a very good plan otherwise they will just face the same problems as the current owners/board.

Then they need to franchise-out the hospitality, boxes, W&L and downstairs bar to professionals to run.... PMG's grand plans just havn't worked as we never brought in proper skilled/qualified management to run such a large organisation with so many different activities.

To be fair, didnt they bring in who in Morecambe is the best at running a big catering operation like the Wright and Lord? Mick Obrien.

[Gnasher]

So option one might be the best but still how would the new owners turn it around they would need a very good plan otherwise they will just face the same problems as the current owners/board.

If any potential new owners don't have lots of money to develop the club, i.e. hotel, offices, etc., then the "football" club as a whole needs to be made smaller and just concentrates on the football, i.e. get rid of the bits that aren't bringing in money such as the community, all weather pitches, academy, etc. - all "nice to have" but if they're costing money, then simply not viable in the current situation.

You're assuming the non-football activities are losing money. I expect it would be financially more sustainable to drop the football and keep the events going.

Sounds like the bank are completely in control of everything if they hold the key to the security office, without which the club cannot put on a match.

[RedRedWine]

The other stuff only makes money because it has the Morecambe FC name associated to it. When you actually look at the company structure of what we refer to as Morecambe FC, most of it is legally nothing to do with MFC ltd. Who in their right mind is going to continue to send their sons and daughters to play for PMG Leisure Academy with no MFC Ltd? Without MFC Ltd everything else will quickly dissappear.

[jon MFC fan]

I only meant Diego I should have been more specific derp

[Gnasher]

The other stuff only makes money because it has the Morecambe FC name associated to it. When you actually look at the company structure of what we refer to as Morecambe FC, most of it is legally nothing to do with MFC ltd. Who in their right mind is going to continue to send their sons and daughters to play for PMG Leisure Academy with no MFC Ltd? Without MFC Ltd everything else will quickly dissappear.

The other stuff makes money for 2 reasons, it's the old Carlton caterers and they do a damned good job of it.

Please clarify your comment, legally nothing to do with MFC Ltd. I have handed over £2K for private functions at the Globe and I have the receipts in the name of Morecambe FC Ltd. This has been asked before and despite various comments about function money being safe, no one has yet identified how they are legally separate or if it's another company. A lot of assumptions have been made about there being another company but it has yet to be identified.

The Globe won't disappear if MFC folds nor will the function rooms evaporate. They were good before they came to the Globe and I'm sure they'll continue at the Globe with or without a football team as long as the facilities are there to use.