Christie Trust. Does it Exist?

[Keith]

Does anyone have any factual information about the trust, in what form it exists and what, if any land it currently holds in trust? Is the land that the artificial pitches etc are built upon belong to the trust? The ground itself, including stands? Or just the pitch?

Or not even that?

I think the most important influence upon our future is what, if anything, the trust owns.

Personally, I thought that the entire ground was bought by trust money. IE the trust sold Christie Park to Sainsbury's and used that money to purchase The Globe Arena but it is now obvious that this isn't the case. Has the trust gone from owning a substantial piece of valuable land to now owning a bike shed? What happened to the rest of the trust money?

[J.S.]

https://committeeadmin.lancaster.gov.uk/documents/s11238/13a%20MFC%20Cabinet%20Report-exempt-22-04-08%20v3.pdf

Not sure if I've copied the link correctly but this is the only reference to the trust and the Globe that I've found. See sections 2.3 to 2.5

[marky No.1]

I take it to read that it's the land that is leased to the football club, not the buildings and if football no longer takes place then it returns to the Council who can then put the ground for recreational use somewhere in Morecambe. I wonder how much more land than the actual pitch there is.

2.4 For clarity, the Trust relates to a Deed of Gift made in 1928 by JB Christie under
which the sole purpose of the Trust is that MFC are granted a lease of the land by
the Trustees for the purpose of playing association football. The Council are in no
way associated with the Trust other than being a beneficiary of land should
association football no longer be played. In that case the land would transfer to the
City Council to be used as a “public recreation ground for the recreation of the
children of persons resident from time to time in the Borough of Morecambe”. For
the avoidance of doubt there are only covenants in the lease and the Trust but no
covenants that run with the land which would, for example, limit the uses to which
land can be put.
2.5 It is possible for the trust to be recreated on other land in order to continue the basic
requirements of the Trust – in this case the provision of facilities for playing
association football – and if on the other hand football was no longer to be played,
then that land would transfer to the Council as a recreation ground. In this case, this
would allow the Trust to be recreated on the land at Westgate as indicated in the
Heads of Terms.

How we could do with a JBC now
http://www.thevisitor.co.uk/news/thanks ... -1-1207294

[mrpotatohead]

The wishes of JBC, have been trampled all over with the move, I don't imagine he had a vision of ''weasel words'' uttered in legal offices 80 years on, would result in the selling of the land, and subsequent division of it's ''replacement'' , to different parties, followed by administration, would take away association football from his town, this is f**king horrible.

[Keith]

The wishes of JBC, have been trampled all over with the move, I don't imagine he had a vision of ''weasel words'' uttered in legal offices 80 years on, would result in the selling of the land, and subsequent division of it's ''replacement'' , to different parties, followed by administration, would take away association football from his town, this is f**king horrible.

Certainly from the comments above, it would appear that a parcel of land of one value was exchange for a parcel of land of a substantially lower value. Why isn't/wasn't the balance belonging to the trust? If the Sainsbury's money paid for the trust's land, then built The Globe, I would have been happy. In fact I supported the ground move on the basis that this is what was happening. Now it appears that this is not the case. Also, it might not even be the same sized parcel of land?

Do we know who the trustees are and if they are 'following developments'? I'm beginning to fear that the club could go under, the land get sold for more houses and the trust transferred to some brown field site out by Middleton Towers, where the council just have to put up some goal posts and an old see-saw?

[KenH]

Land valued at just £1 was transferred from MFC to the trust according to page 17 of the 10/11 published accounts:-

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/docu ... 75eYxAU%3D

Impossible to know how much land was transferred. The low £1 value could reflect the long leasehold granted back to MFC, i.e. rendering the freehold worthless to anyone else. With any luck, the entire ground, i.e. pitch and stands at the very least was transferred, rendering it unusable for housing etc., meaning it will at least always be a sports ground.

[Gnasher]

Has the Trust's rules already been broken? If the infamous piece of land includes that under the security block, did the trustees give permission for another company to build on it?

Trustees, who and where are you?

[George Dawes]

Has the Trust's rules already been broken? If the infamous piece of land includes that under the security block, did the trustees give permission for another company to build on it?

Trustees, who and where are you?

could be on to something here, this happens a lot people building without following correct legal planning permission , get that thing off Christies land!

[J.S.]

The council document states that the trustees were included in the discussions. Could we get to know more through the freedom of information act? Anyone know how it works?

[Christies Child]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

[Gnasher]

FOI applies to public bodies such as the council but there are certain things that they can refuse to give out however they would need to explain why.

CC, if you bought the club, would you thank us for withholding this information?

[J.S.]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Unbelievable

[mrpotatohead]

Oh Neil.....

[Seasider9601]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Personally Neil, I do think it needs to be out in the open so that people know exactly what they are dealing with when D-Day arrives.

And, because it's looming ever nearer, we need to know.

[outsider]

To be honest. If I was about to buy a football club, I wouldn't waste time looking at a fans message board that has 30-40 active posters. Then think oh sh*t better not buy them, My highly paid legal advisers never told me that.................

[morecambegeek]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Jesus wept.

Justify why you think why the truth shouldn't be investigated and made public to the fans of the club, instead of hiding behind rolleyes and smileys.

[J.S.]

To be honest. If I was about to buy a football club, I wouldn't waste time looking at a fans message board that has 30-40 active posters. Then think oh sh*t better not buy them, My highly paid legal advisers never told me that.................

Quite right. If I was a buyer, I would make sure that the land wasn't tied up in a trust that prevented me kicking out the tenants.
I would also expect that the seller would find out if I was genuine and ....oh hang on.

[Christies Child]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Jesus wept.

Justify why you think why the truth shouldn't be investigated and made public to the fans of the club, instead of hiding behind rolleyes and smileys.

I've no intension of justifying this or any post to you in particular so don't waste your time even asking.

[morecambegeek]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Jesus wept.

Justify why you think why the truth shouldn't be investigated and made public to the fans of the club, instead of hiding behind rolleyes and smileys.

I've no intension of justifying this or any post to you in particular so don't waste your time even asking.

[Keith]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Well, as I was the one who took the laundry out...

One of the few positives at the moment is the formation of the Supporters' Trust. It will definitely be useful if the Supporters' Trust understood the position. Perhaps even have a supporter appointed as a trustee?

I suspect that the existence or otherwise of the Christie Trust may have a huge impact upon the future of the club. What is clear in that regard is that nothing is clear in that regard. You've supported Morecambe since before I was born, do you know what the situation is with the Christie Trust after it was transferred?

And if a prospective buyer reads ShrimpsVoices, sees a thread about the covenants on the land and thinks "I didn't know that I wouldn't be able to sell the land to a housing developer, sod that I've lost interest" then I'd see that as a good thing!

[Gnasher]

MFC are granted a lease of the land

Does that mean if MFC go into administration, the council get the land?

[marky No.1]

MFC are granted a lease of the land

Does that mean if MFC go into administration, the council get the land?

That's how it seems if the football ceases to take place... although there is always someone willing to spend £££££££££ on lawyers to swing things around.

(If the high Court throw Brexit out today, the process will be slowed up for ages, a group of lawyers have already spent 6 weeks chewing it over)

[Gnasher]

That's where the wording is conflicting. One phrase refers to MFC, another to football ceasing to be played.

[Christies Child]

As if the debate about the sale of our club wasn't bad enough, we've now started a discussion about the Christies Trust and whether it actually exists....

Talk about washing ones dirty linen in public......

If prospective investors read all this crap would anybody seriously want to take a second look....

Well, as I was the one who took the laundry out...

One of the few positives at the moment is the formation of the Supporters' Trust. It will definitely be useful if the Supporters' Trust understood the position. Perhaps even have a supporter appointed as a trustee?

I suspect that the existence or otherwise of the Christie Trust may have a huge impact upon the future of the club. What is clear in that regard is that nothing is clear in that regard. You've supported Morecambe since before I was born, do you know what the situation is with the Christie Trust after it was transferred?

And if a prospective buyer reads ShrimpsVoices, sees a thread about the covenants on the land and thinks "I didn't know that I wouldn't be able to sell the land to a housing developer, sod that I've lost interest" then I'd see that as a good thing!

Keith
For me and others may disagree, the problem is that nobody other than members of the Board know the real situation re the Trust and that is why I've posted elsewhere calling for a Statement from a united Board about not only the situation about the Trust but also the current position regarding the current ownership of the club and the position as it is of today about any sale or otherwise of OUR club.

[LA1Shrimp]

The first thing the trust should do is try to get the ground listed as an asset of community value, this places great deal of restriction on it. If you look at other trusts this seems to be something they have all tied up from the off.

Also, in respect of potential buyers of the club being put off by a messageboard, I'd say the yearly losses, lack of assets and generally being run like a circus is more likely to be putting them off.