The crisis in refereeing

[fulwoodshrimp]

Last night's referee against Barnet was another abysmal official and after the performance by Michael Salisbury against Cheltenham it highlights that some of the referees being promoted to the league list are clearly not good enough to referee the professional game in my opinion. Last night's referee strutted through the game never quite in touch with play and seemed very selective in his decision making, ignoring a stamp on Mullen and Edwards having his shirt held but treating Murphy's hard tackle very strictly. In my opinion referees like this should still be learning their trade in the lower leagues. They are still very naive and don't recognise some players are play acting when they lie motionless on the ground. Promoting inept officials does a great disservice to the game and often the main talking point after a game is the hopeless officials not the quality of the football on display.

[Keith]

I think there is a crisis in refereeing but that crisis is, there simply aren't enough of them. Poor refs are refereeing above their ability because there are too many gaps. If the poor refs were taken out of the game, there simply wouldn't be enough left for football to continue.

I think there are two things that need to be done at opposite ends of the game.

Firstly, the FA should invest some of their many millions in making refereeing an attractive, professional career for more refs. If they were paid a suitable amount, they could concentrate full time on 'the job'. It may also be a career option for more ex-players, who recognise the 'games' a bit easier.

At the other end of the ladder, the FA should stamp hard on the abuse of referees in a similar manner to rugby & hockey. In these games the ref/umpire doesn't take ANY abuse. Football needs to be the same, abuse the ref, yellow card. Carry on, red card. It would take a couple of seasons to change the culture, but Sunday league level would soon change if players were getting bans & fines. There was a young lad on the local news (Granada?) recently talking about the abuse he gets as a ref at Sunday League level. If we put young people off becoming refs in the first place, then they will not be there to progress.

[friedshrimp]

I agree with Keith's point entirely. The true crisis in refereeing is there are far too few refs. The problem, peculiar to football it seems, is that players and fans are not mature enough to take the ups and downs of decisions. As Cloughy said, 'we don't criticise referees, their job is hard enough'. I refereed in the 70s but gave up after 3 years because I got fed up with the abuse.

I also thought last night's ref did ok. He was fussy but consistent. He missed a few niggly bits but it for both teams. I also thought that the sending off was correct; it was a two footed challenge and he was out of control. It makes no difference whether he made contact, how much the player was hurt or whether he got the ball first. He could have missed the tackle altogether but still be sent off. The laws of the game are quite clear. The laws may be good or bad but the ref has to follow them. Part of the problem is the surprising ignorance on match of the day which fabs adopt as their own 'knowledge'. We often see slow motion replays to see if contact was made with the player when it is so often irrelevant. Hanson was the worst for not knowing the laws of the game.

I think another problem is that we have had a number of players sent off for such lunges. this should be sorted ASAP. The problem is not refs ganging up on 'poor little morecambe' but the players not knowing how to tackle hard but within the laws.

[SupermarketShrimp]

At the other end of the ladder, the FA should stamp hard on the abuse of referees in a similar manner to rugby & hockey. In these games the ref/umpire doesn't take ANY abuse. Football needs to be the same, abuse the ref, yellow card. Carry on, red card. It would take a couple of seasons to change the culture, but Sunday league level would soon change if players were getting bans & fines. There was a young lad on the local news (Granada?) recently talking about the abuse he gets as a ref at Sunday League level. If we put young people off becoming refs in the first place, then they will not be there to progress

100% this.

What amazes me is peoples attitude to refs at Sunday league level. I always made a point of seeking the ref out, paying him before the game, and asking about his week, who he supported, generally got onside with him. (pun intended)

As a result, our side usually got away with blue murder.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

A few years ago everyone would have been praising Murphy for a 'firm but fair' challenge because he appeared to get the ball first then take the man with it. Nowadays you can't launch yourself off your feet into a '50/50' because it is deemed to be reckless and a straight red. The players know this so why do they do it? It mattered not that the Barnet player play acted for 40 seconds till the red came out then got up and ran around like a 2 year old, referees have been told to clamp down on these type of challenges and that's what they're doing. Trouble is we seem to be repeat offenders and Jim somehow needs to drum it into them to be competitive but cut out the recklessness or we will be down to 10 again and again.I am not including in this Michael Sailsburys Kenyon sending off which was a ridiculous interpretation of the retaliation laws and warranted no more than a quiet word of advice rather than the full sanction of a red card.

[friedshrimp]

Agree with phoenix shrimp apart from the Kenyon incident. I think the correct interpretation of the law is that their player should have been sent off for the stamp and kenyon sent of for the retaliation. To kick or attempt to kick an opponent is violent conduct and has to be a sending off

[friedshrimp]

When I reffed I often got 'chatted up' like supermarket shrimp describes. another favourite was 'glad we've got you ref. I gave you 10/10 last time you reffed us'. I was sucjh a tart I used to fall for that!

[mrpotatohead]

If you are over 35 years old and support morecambe you would say it was '' A fair challenge'', if you are younger , you know the rules nowadays and its a straight red, will we appeal? I would say not, Murphy will now be badly missed for his ban period.

As for ref's, ''they don't know what they're doing'', '' don't know their dads'', and always gave been and always will be ''The b****** in the black''

[friedshrimp]

I don't think having a thread such as the 'shit referee database' reflects very well on this forum either. Just one more little addition to the abuse refs get.

[Freez]

Sorry Fried shrimp, I agree with all that been posted, however, Murphy's tackle seen from the Main stand on the half way line was one footed, got the ball with no raised foot even, their guy rolling around and seven of the Barnet players surrounding the referee influenced his decision. We called it as we saw it, and seeing it afterwards it's a truly awful decision.
One of the problems is a player can see he's not going to win the tackle, bottle it, then react like he's been shot and the other guy gets sent off.
Our game is become a laughing stock with all this play acting, diving and cheating.
Watching Rugby Union internationals last weekend made me think.

[Freez]

Another point.
Murphy slides in and gets the ball, it's called as excessive force according to the referees report. We call it inertia, as two forces coming together collide, when the ball has gone.
In the second half, Alex breaks down the left, their centre back Nelson slides in, puts the ball out for a throw but inertia means he bundles Alex over who gets injured from the follow through and contact.
Result is a throw, no free kick, no booking!

Both good tackles, both with contact after the ball has gone, but completely contrasting outcomes, perhaps because of the tackled players reaction???

[friedshrimp]

Interesting points Freez. I agree entirely about play acting and surrounding the ref. Both should be stamped out and Keith makes the comparison with Rugby. In Rugby only the captain can speak to the ref and has to call him Sir! If the football ref allows that affect his decision then he is at fault. We are all human though, even refs.

Interesting how we saw it differently. I was on the halway line too, behind the away dugout. As the tackle went in I thought 'he's off. Shit'. To me it looked two footed. we both saw it in real time which is all the ref has until video comes in, as in Rugby. It would be interesting to see a video of the tackle. Have you found one? I also thought the ref was very close to the incident.

As for comparing the Nelson tackle I think the laws say that it does not matter whether there is an injury, it is the intent and the control in the tackle. He saw the murphy tackle as violent (with in the definitions of the law) and the Nelson tackle as fair. Is there a video of that tackle anywhere?

[Niborian_Shrimp]

Footage of the tackle can be found on the Sky Sport website.

http://www.skysports.com/football/morecambe-vs-barnet/359579

[ChrisC]

Regardless of last night's refs performance is it any surprise there is a crisis when you hear the abuse they are subjected to by the likes of Ken McKenna every week.
It's pretty embarrassing and I doubt it predisposes the officials to give us the benefit of the doubt.

[friedshrimp]

just found the video on sky. As I see it Murphy's left foot is in the air and his right probably on the ground but studs showing at the point of collision. It looks reckless to me but then I've got the eyes of an old man!

[halfwayprawn]

We seem to forget that there is also a linesman, who has input, but they never seem to see the main incidents even when the fouls are right in front of them and half the trouble is the players themselves feigning fouls and pretending to be injured maybe there should yellow cards shown more often for this offence.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

Sorry Fried shrimp, I agree with all that been posted, however, Murphy's tackle seen from the Main stand on the half way line was one footed, got the ball with no raised foot even, their guy rolling around and seven of the Barnet players surrounding the referee influenced his decision. We called it as we saw it, and seeing it afterwards it's a truly awful decision.
One of the problems is a player can see he's not going to win the tackle, bottle it, then react like he's been shot and the other guy gets sent off.
Our game is become a laughing stock with all this play acting, diving and cheating.
Watching Rugby Union internationals last weekend made me think.

Thing is Freez you are looking at it from side on and the ref is behind Murphy looking from a totally different angle and perspective. The Barnet player was slightly closer to the ball and was probably favourite to get to it first if both players had stopped on their feet. It was only because Murphy launched himself off his feet that he got there first. Now if the Barnet player had launched himself at the same time Murphy did there could have been a horrible head on collision with serious injury involved so I can see why they are trying to get rid of these type of challenges. We have to face it that we can't do it anymore and if we do then players will play dead and surround the ref, who was probably going to get the red out anyway.We never seem to benefit from this only suffer so it seems other teams have got their heads around it and some of our players haven't.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Referee's supremo David Allison was watching the match last night and he thought Mr Coote had a good game.

[Seasider9601]

We seem to forget that there is also a linesman, who has input, but they never seem to see the main incidents even when the fouls are right in front of them.

We questioned the liner on the Berlin Wall side last night as to why he hadn't seen infringements etc on our players.

He got that fed up of us questioning him he turned round at one point, pointed to his headset, and said to us that he'd "told the ref but he's ignoring me."

What can you do in situations like that ??

[fulwoodshrimp]

i think that's part of the problem. Ex-refs judging current referees. I thought last night's ref looked out of his depth and was naive. I also thought he was too far away from play a lot of the time. I don't see how this allowed him to have a good view of some critical moments in the game, for instance, he completely missed Mullen being stamped on.

[marky No.1]

You cant fly in like this

murphy.png (94.8 KiB) Viewed 1414 times

murphy1.png (95.23 KiB) Viewed 1409 times

[friedshrimp]

"We questioned the liner on the Berlin Wall side last night as to why he hadn't seen infringements etc on our players.

He got that fed up of us questioning him he turned round at one point, pointed to his headset, and said to us that he'd "told the ref but he's ignoring me."

What can you do in situations like that ??"


Nothing. The assistant referee is exactly that. His role is advisory, the referee's makes the decision. One of the issues with being a linesman (as it was) is that you constantly get it in the ear from spectators. It is worse lining at the local level where the spectators are only inches from you and get in your way when they disagree with you (usually every decision made against their team)

[Christies Child]

Have to say that looking at the images above that although Murphy is launching himself he appears to be nearer to the ball than the oppositions player who for me made the most of it by play acting which probably made the refs mind up about sending Murphy off.

However it is within the powers of the ref to book the offended player if he appears after the event to have made more out of it than was called for by having a miraculous recovery as soon as the offender has been sent off.

Referees should be getting wise to such tactics but they are all too often fooled and either choose to do sod all or are simply incompetant. The refs association should be doing all in their power to make refs more accountable for their actions.....but when did you last see a pig fly...

Can't see the authorities letting Murphy off so pointless in an appeal.

[friedshrimp]

back to the laws of the game again. The position of the ball does not matter. If a player tackles another in a reckless fashion it is deemed violent conduct and is a red card offense.

As for refs being acoountable- in this case he got it right by the laws of th game so no problems. Refs are accountable. There is an assessor in the crowd and if the ref is not deemed competent they will be demoted.

[shrimper]

Like your contributions on this friedshrimp.

I often find myself butting in (or shouting at the TV) when I hear things like 'he got the ball!' or 'there was no contact with the player, he never touched him'.

Totally irrelevant in most of the situations people are commenting on (which is understandable coming from a punter on the terraces - but from footballers, managers and pundits on TV it's inexcusable - it's their job to know the laws of the game and they clearly don't).

The one thing I disagree on last night was the recklessness or lack of control of Murphy's tackle. I watched it unfold and thought he was in total control of his movements in the tackle, down to dipping his foot as he approached the ball to keep control and win the ball.

Having said that - I said, as soon as the ref signalled it as a foul, that he was going off. A matter of interpretation on which I disagreed with the ref.

I do think he had a good game generally though - I just differed in opinion a couple of times.