The crisis in refereeing

[Niborian_Shrimp]

If Kenyon's tackle against Plymouth last year was initially a red card then yeah that was always gonna be a red card.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

Who'd be a ref eh? Very difficult job. The other factor in this is that most of us are quite biased. If their player had done the same to Murphy I'm sure we'd all have been screaming OFF OFF OFF and other expletives. In a nutshell these type of challenges are risking a red card every time so don't do them. Other teams have got their heads round it so why can't we?

[Freez]

All fair points.
Show me a picture of the sliding tackle on Kenyon and tell me it's any different other than side on. Result is actually worse as Kenyon was injured from the inertia of the two colliding after the tackle. Therefore according to the laws it's recklesss,
My point is the reaction or over reaction caused the sending off.
Again, if everyone is insistent that " you cannot dive in even if you get the ball if you collide with the man after" then the tackle on Kenyon was the same for me.
Mustphy got the ball with a slide, one footed, with no lunge, BEFORE Bover was even near the ball, therefore it cannot be deemed reckless in my eyes. You Freez Frame it and see that fact clearly, and that's what I reported at the time.
I repeat, the difference in the tackles is the reactions of the players.
There needs to be consistency, and as we pointed out last night, the Hartlepool centre back went through Fleming two footed from behind, off his feet, lunge type and took Flemmo out, free kick, not even a card!!!
Frustrating!
Good thread though!!

[friedshrimp]

very interesting thread. It shows the difficult jobs refs have. We now all have access to the video and the freeze frame yet we still don't see it the same. Still a reckless lunge to me. The ref makes a decision in real time in good faith. In the back of his mind will be the fact that there will be fans and bouncer sized managers haranguing him at half time as he goes down the tunnel. It would be easier to not see anything and just award a foul.

Bring on the video ref as in rugby I reckon. Even then there would be some fans still question the decision.

[MfcChris]

You cant fly in like this

The more I watch it, the more I now think it is a red.

[shrimper]

very interesting thread. It shows the difficult jobs refs have. We now all have access to the video and the freeze frame yet we still don't see it the same. .

Yup, which is why I still thought the ref had a good game - I just disagreed with his interpretation but said at the time that he had the evidence there, should he have seen it a certain way, to have made that judgment.

[seasonsinthesun]

I agree that our players need to be a lot more switched on during matches in regard to these risky tackles that lead to red cards. Fleming is another who lunged in during the Notts County match in January and was red carded.
As has been said other teams don't seem to be getting players sent off.

[BerlinWaller]

It is a red card all day long. It is the sort of tackle that has been discussed time and again. If Murphy was the first player to get sent off for a challenge like that then fair enough but with all the hype surrounding it he should know better.

[jona77]

I couldn't make the game (damn valentines night!) but looking at Murphys tackle regardless of whether you win the ball are not you can't go into a tackle feet first. Regardless of it being one or two footed and him possibly winning the ball first under the letter of the law if it's deemed dangerous play the ref is within his rights to send someone off. I think the ref was well within his rights to send Murphy off despite the Barnett players over re action. What annoys me is all football players know this yet seem to persist with this type of tackle.

[fulwoodshrimp]

I understand that Murphy was foolish but I was concerned that equally foolish acts by the Barnet players went unpunished. Mullen was clearly stamped on when on the ground and Edwards had his shirt almost ripped off his back with the referee taking no action. The challenge that led to Kenyon's injury didn't even merit a word from this referee who allegedly according to the refs supremo had good game!

[Freez]

I think perhaps we are back to interpretation of the worded law, and as we have seen we are all interpreting it a few ways, so hardly surprising that the ref did so.
I agree wholeheartedly about video reffing, even at our level it would be posisble and would lead to a correct decision and quickly. However I would still hope that this "surround the ref and over reaction" can be stamped out, it's turning the game into a laughing stock.
Also agree that we should be learning about the kind of tackles that are acceptable now, as we have lost 5 to red cards in the last 13 games.
Whitmore rash against Luton, Kenyon for retaliation v Cheltenham, Flemmo rash against Notts County and Winnard two daft yellows at Carlisle and last night.

Interesting question, the ball was there to be won last night for Murphy, what should he have done, bottle it himself? Let the other guy have it? Watching Goal Rush on a Saturday night, there's are reds for a block tackle as well sliding ones, depending on over reaction. This should be stamped on. Pardon the pun.
Having been lucky and seen it a few times, I would still argue it was a sliding tackle rather than diving in, and a sliding tackle is a skill, which is gradually being eroded I will grant you.

So to me the laws need clarifying and subtly changing, otherwise we will end up with a strictly non contact sport as the divers and cheating prospers more than the players giving there all.
As a I said, compared to either Rugby code where the Ref is the man in charge, players get away with murder, and as it stands play acting is more important than skill to get a result.
Yes we are honest, or naive, depending on the viewpoint, but we have had numerous tackles done to us left unpunished, which is again a lack of correct interpretation and consistency, so we are back to the refs training.
Ex players could be fast tracked, like in cricket, where umpires have considerably more complex sets if rules to negotiate and can be in County Cricket pretty quickly, perhaps with incentives??

I'll get me coat.

[Christies Child]

In view of our current financial problems, I just hope that the club are not landed with a fine for the number of players sent off to date as well as the bookings that are increasing.

[shrimper]

Not sure, Freez.

I think the law is pretty good but we just have to accept that referees are human, there must be a degree of interpretation in a lot of laws and - as this thread shows - sometimes we'll disagree.

[friedshrimp]

thought folk might be interested to see the actual wording of the law. I guess some haven't seen it. This is all the ref has to go on

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdevel ... _47379.pdf

I includes a photo example of this sort of tackle

[Phil Anderer]

Having watched the video, at full speed it's more nailed on a red than I thought last night, and I thought it was fair last night. There are inconsistencies though, and that's at least in part because refs are human. I thought the surrounding the ref thing was supposed to be stamped on, with rules similar to rugby; obviously I'm wrong, because there's no sign of it happening. Refs do get some bad press in here, but last night's was nowhere near the poor quality of Michael Salisbury, who really was atrocious. Overall I'd tend to agree with Shrimper (that's twice in one day! ) that he had a reasonable game last night.

[Christies Child]

thought folk might be interested to see the actual wording of the law. I guess some haven't seen it. This is all the ref has to go on

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdevel ... _47379.pdf

I includes a photo example of this sort of tackle

Mud is clear...isn't it...

[Gone_Shrimping]

How many games would Norman Hunter , Chopper Harris , Cyril Knowles or Peter Storey have survived to 90 minutes if Mr Coote had been refereeing in those days

[marky No.1]

Looks like we are moving towards a header being a bookable offence.

[Keith]

I've just watched it for the first time. I thought it was the full match highlights and therefore didn't expect the red card to be the first thing shown, so saw it at full speed, not anticipating the tackle that was coming.

I thought that was a nailed on red card.

So I watched it again. And still thought it was a red card.

The ref got abused for what I'd say was the correct decision.

[friedshrimp]

Quite a few on this thread thinking the ref got it right. If this is the case then it means that the 'friendly club' fans verbally abused a guy for having the courage to make a decision that he knew would be unpopular with the majority.

[fulwoodshrimp]

Rather than abuse the fans that gave the referee stick last night Fried Shrimp should understand that awful inconsistency was evident in the referee's decisions. Why was nothing done about the stamp on Paul Mullen? Why did the referee ignore the manhandling of Edwards? Why was nothing done about the late challenge that produced the injury on Kenyon? Fans were unhappy at the apparent one-sidedness of the official's decisions. Its a frustration that has built up this season. We don't seem to be getting an even break from some of the officials particularly evident in the performance of Michael Salisbury in the Cheltenham game.

[Sakhalin Shrimp]

Quite a few on this thread thinking the ref got it right. If this is the case then it means that the 'friendly club' fans verbally abused a guy for having the courage to make a decision that he knew would be unpopular with the majority.

Just a shame that he didn't have the courage to make the correct decision for the Mullers incident. To be fair to the ref though, from where I was sat in C2, I thought the tackle on Alex was strong but fair, just hope he isn't out for too long.

[Freez]

Still think it was harsh, but no matter what happens the result won't change. Kenyon gets injured from the inertia of a sliding tackle, no difference for me! Like I say, if Murphys is reckless so was Michael Nelson on Alex.

And don't get me started on the lack of use of obstruction rule, at least twice last night our player was stopped from getting to the ball by a defender obstructing him with no intention, and in one case chance, of getting the ball themselves. It's a law that no ref uses anymore!!

[Sakhalin Shrimp]

Lacking in consistency for me.

Murphs came and sat on our row of seats with, I assume, his family after his sending off. He didn't seem to get too upset about the tackle on Alex, though he did disappear soon after though in the direction of the tunnel. I would think to see how he was.

[mrpotatohead]

Amazing how many in the bar afterwards reckoned they had a great view and were adamant it was a fair challenge, the referees have a difficult job and a lot to concentrate on, whereas these experts with nothing to do but sit and watch it continually get proven wrong with the tv footage,I wonder if match official's sit debating the poor judgement of the supporters after a sending off?