O/T Lets VOTE!

[shrimperteer]

What a load of bollocks as usual from Shrimperteer....

Which bit? You said you weren't sure where Labour were getting the money from, I told you the manifesto costed all of it, you made some 'witty' comment about not reading it. Well done. You're harmless though, your confused old dear routine is quite endearing.

[HALMA 1983]

Ade unfortunately I do not share your apocalyptic view of our tiny island apparently balanced at the precipice, teetering.
Nor the veiled racism.

It's not a question of just more investment for the NHS, it's the fact that it's currently being run to line shareholders pockets, not treat ill people, even for a price.

Over population? We can accommodate more people, however the infrastructure of all our services are severely depleted thanks to under funding and poor management by a succession of governments swapping ideals, not the amount of population, surely?

Dave, I'm going to ignore the 'Racism' comment because I think you and others on here know me better than that, I would help anybody no matter who they are or where they come from and I do talk to folk I wouldn't know from Adam all the time.
I come from a broken working class family in a rough part of this town, my education was seriously affected by it but I make no excuses for what I say or who I am although I have shown that even the lowest of the low can achieve and make a decent life through hard work be it on minimum wage for most of my near 39 years of work.
Maybe I see things different because I've never bought or owned anything I couldn't buy outright and I wouldn't have it any other way but I get seriously pissed off when people keep on moaning at how poor they are, lifestyle choices need to be made and cut your cloth according.

I will end with this: I am still on minimum wage but you know what, I HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN BETTER OFF with the amount of tax I get deducted, the amount of money I receive each month is wonderful

Talk of working people on 23k a year using food banks is a bloody insult to the likes of myself and folk like me

[Keith]

Why do you think that 'hard work' belongs to the right wing?
Why do you want private companies to make profit out of health?
Why do you want a US style health service, that you have said, you couldn't afford?

[HALMA 1983]

Why do you think that 'hard work' belongs to the right wing?
Why do you want private companies to make profit out of health?
Why do you want a US style health service, that you have said, you couldn't afford?

Believe it or not Keith, I was once all for Labour until John Smith passed away

Hard work is only done by people who have the inner will to do it, some have it and some don't
that differentiates the have's and the have not's but why hold back anybody who is better and wants to get on? They have my blessing!

The NHS needs to be funded by EVERY single person in the country if it's to survive but the way it is going it is totally unsustainable under any government
Most countries in the world charge people for using their hospitals so why should we be different?

[Keith]

Why do you think that 'hard work' belongs to the right wing?
Why do you want private companies to make profit out of health?
Why do you want a US style health service, that you have said, you couldn't afford?

Believe it or not Keith, I was once all for Labour until John Smith passed away

Hard work is only done by people who have the inner will to do it, some have it and some don't
that differentiates the have's and the have not's but why hold back anybody who is better and wants to get on? They have my blessing!

The NHS needs to be funded by EVERY single person in the country if it's to survive but the way it is going it is totally unsustainable under any government
Most countries in the world charge people for using their hospitals so why should we be different?

It is funded by the people who use it through tax. Most tax is through VAT so poor people pay it as well. Tories want the wealthy to pay less and the poor pay more. How is that a 'good thing'.

Most countries have more expensive health services than the NHS and a clear 'two tier' (or more) system. The NHS is actually good value compaired to most systems.

[HALMA 1983]

Why do you think that 'hard work' belongs to the right wing?
Why do you want private companies to make profit out of health?
Why do you want a US style health service, that you have said, you couldn't afford?

Believe it or not Keith, I was once all for Labour until John Smith passed away

Hard work is only done by people who have the inner will to do it, some have it and some don't
that differentiates the have's and the have not's but why hold back anybody who is better and wants to get on? They have my blessing!

The NHS needs to be funded by EVERY single person in the country if it's to survive but the way it is going it is totally unsustainable under any government
Most countries in the world charge people for using their hospitals so why should we be different?

It is funded by the people who use it through tax. Most tax is through VAT so poor people pay it as well. Tories want the wealthy to pay less and the poor pay more. How is that a 'good thing'.

Most countries have more expensive health services than the NHS and a clear 'two tier' (or more) system. The NHS is actually good value compaired to most systems.

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us
40% is it?

[shrimpnsave]

OLDHAMADE dont argue with Keith please because his word is final

[HALMA 1983]

OLDHAMADE dont argue with Keith please because his word is final

I'm sure he'll be the first to let me know but thanks for the concern

[George Dawes]

never change political threads on SVs

if you did a mock General Election and Brexit on here, it's would be a left wing landslide, it's certainly not balanced on here, nor does it reflect how the country as voted in recent elections.

[Keith]

OLDHAMADE dont argue with Keith please because his word is final

I've never had a problem with people disagreeing with me on here, so fire away!

[HALMA 1983]

OLDHAMADE dont argue with Keith please because his word is final

I've never had a problem with people disagreeing with me on here, so fire away!

Good man Keith
I knew we were cut from the same cloth

[Keith]

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us
40% is it?

It isn't politics of envy, its politics of 'fairness'. The NHS is a fantastic service that has undergone many years of reduced funding. It isn't perfect, but it is a damn site better than most other health services. The wealth gap in the UK has been widening at the same time as public services have been getting cut. I don't think Starbucks etc should be able to avoid tax at the same time as more & more people are being forced in to poverty.

Many very wealthy people don't pay ANYTHING on their income. Viscount Rothermere is worth about US$1.9 billion yet he and the Daily Mail Group don't pay UK tax because neither he, nor the Daily Mail are liable for taxes in the UK. He lives in the UK in a property that cost £40 million in 2001, yet he's non-domiciled there for tax purposes. So do I think Viscount Rothermere should pay a bit more tax than a nurse, teacher or firefighter? Yes please.

[Posh]

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us

40% is it?

One of the great myths spread by those who want to protect their interests.

Top 10% pay 34% of their income in tax
Bottom 10% pay 47% of their income in tax

Fact.

Top 10% retain much of the additional earnings as disposable income, whereas the poorest use it almost exclusively to cover essential purchases.

https://fullfact.org/economy/what-do-we ... t-pay-tax/

[HALMA 1983]

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us

40% is it?

One of the great myths spread by those who want to protect their interests.

Top 10% pay 34% of their income in tax
Bottom 10% pay 47% of their income in tax

Fact.

Top 10% retain much of the additional earnings as disposable income, whereas the poorest use it almost exclusively to cover essential purchases.

https://fullfact.org/economy/what-do-we ... t-pay-tax/

Every person breathing wants to protect their OWN interests including yourself no doubts, don't you see folk around you in the street in their own little worlds? pushing past you and would even use you as a carpet given the opportunity
I have never given two hoots about folk with money or the tax they pay, that's their business, mine has always been to concentrate on what I need to do to stay in employment for the good of my family and for near 39 years I haven't been found wanting

[HALMA 1983]

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us
40% is it?

It isn't politics of envy, its politics of 'fairness'. The NHS is a fantastic service that has undergone many years of reduced funding. It isn't perfect, but it is a damn site better than most other health services. The wealth gap in the UK has been widening at the same time as public services have been getting cut. I don't think Starbucks etc should be able to avoid tax at the same time as more & more people are being forced in to poverty.

Many very wealthy people don't pay ANYTHING on their income. Viscount Rothermere is worth about US$1.9 billion yet he and the Daily Mail Group don't pay UK tax because neither he, nor the Daily Mail are liable for taxes in the UK. He lives in the UK in a property that cost £40 million in 2001, yet he's non-domiciled there for tax purposes. So do I think Viscount Rothermere should pay a bit more tax than a nurse, teacher or firefighter? Yes please.

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
you can feed yourself cheaply, you can cloth yourself cheaply, you can get a house provided so you have a roof over your head and you don't even have to work if you choose not to and be paid for it
EVERYTHING is inplace for those on lower incomes, credits, free school dinners, free childcare, council tax paid........................the list goes on but you can only help people to a certain point.

I've been there remember but we chose to extend ourselves and set up home, yes it was bloody hard and interest rates were at 9.9% from the very start and increasing, no carpets on the bare floorboards we walked on for 18 months, windows rotten and falling out, no central heating only a small gas fire,a settee we had given, no T.V or car because they were luxuries, then we had our rates doubled with poll tax, within 6 months we were nearly repossessed and had to live on beans, a sack of potatoes and mince using our sons family allowance.

Now at the age of 54 I have everything I could ever need not because I'm talented or have anything on paper in the form of qualifications but you have to make it happen, the world doesn't owe you a living!

[Gone_Shrimping]

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us
40% is it?

It isn't politics of envy, its politics of 'fairness'. The NHS is a fantastic service that has undergone many years of reduced funding. It isn't perfect, but it is a damn site better than most other health services. The wealth gap in the UK has been widening at the same time as public services have been getting cut. I don't think Starbucks etc should be able to avoid tax at the same time as more & more people are being forced in to poverty.

Many very wealthy people don't pay ANYTHING on their income. Viscount Rothermere is worth about US$1.9 billion yet he and the Daily Mail Group don't pay UK tax because neither he, nor the Daily Mail are liable for taxes in the UK. He lives in the UK in a property that cost £40 million in 2001, yet he's non-domiciled there for tax purposes. So do I think Viscount Rothermere should pay a bit more tax than a nurse, teacher or firefighter? Yes please.

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
you can feed yourself cheaply, you can cloth yourself cheaply, you can get a house provided so you have a roof over your head and you don't even have to work if you choose not to and be paid for it
EVERYTHING is inplace for those on lower incomes, credits, free school dinners, free childcare, council tax paid........................the list goes on but you can only help people to a certain point.

I've been there remember but we chose to extend ourselves and set up home, yes it was bloody hard and interest rates were at 9.9% from the very start and increasing, no carpets on the bare floorboards we walked on for 18 months, windows rotten and falling out, no central heating only a small gas fire,a settee we had given, no T.V or car because they were luxuries, then we had our rates doubled with poll tax, within 6 months we were nearly repossessed and had to live on beans, a sack of potatoes and mince using our sons family allowance.

Now at the age of 54 I have everything I could ever need not because I'm talented or have anything on paper in the form of qualifications but you have to make it happen, the world doesn't owe you a living!

Great post.

[Keith]

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
...no carpets on the bare floorboards we walked on for 18 months, windows rotten and falling out, no central heating only a small gas fire,a settee we had given, no T.V or car because they were luxuries, then we had our rates doubled with poll tax, within 6 months we were nearly repossessed and had to live on beans, a sack of potatoes and mince using our sons family allowance.

Is that not poverty?
And you were "nearly repossessed"? What if you were just a shade further and you had been repossessed? THEN would you have been in poverty?

Your rates doubled to SAVE money for the wealthy! I really don't think it is fair & reasonable for the poorest in our society subsidise the wealthiest. No car, no TV, no carpets but you had rates doubled so wealthy people could have a rates cut.

Incidentally, our first house was bought at 17% interest after it was repossessed. The people who owned it before us had done a 'moonlight flit'. The house had then been empty for 12 months while the repossession orders went through. They had left loads of stuff that they'd not been able to take with them. Baby clothing, crockery, towels. And the pile of bills that had pushed them over the edge. There were two cups still sitting there where they had their last brew before leaving. And some knitting. We looked through the paperwork that they left. They'd bought the house at about 8% and had borrowed up to their limits. They'd taken out addition loans to keep their heads above water. One of them was at an interest rate that meant the repayments weren't even covering the interest. I have no way of knowing if it was the poll tax that pushed them over the edge but I can imagine the stress, upset and eventually desperation that led to them throwing the towel in. But it would have made them feel better to know that they were doing their bit to help the vulnerable wealthy.

Do you have an opinion on how disability benefits are being slashed as 'austerity'? Mobility allowances taken away. ATOS Work Assessments? Pleased that disabled people are supporting the cuts in Cooperation Tax and billionaires who don't pay anything?

[morecambegeek]

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
you can feed yourself cheaply, you can cloth yourself cheaply, you can get a house provided so you have a roof over your head and you don't even have to work if you choose not to and be paid for it
EVERYTHING is inplace for those on lower incomes, credits, free school dinners, free childcare, council tax paid........................the list goes on but you can only help people to a certain point.

ATOS.

Bullshit.

[Christies Child]

I've always been 'POOR' so why do I suddenly feel the need to disagree with yours and Labours ongoing envy towards 'wealthy' people who infact pay MORE tax on their income than the rest of us

40% is it?

One of the great myths spread by those who want to protect their interests.

Top 10% pay 34% of their income in tax
Bottom 10% pay 47% of their income in tax

Fact.



Top 10% retain much of the additional earnings as disposable income, whereas the poorest use it almost exclusively to cover essential purchases.

https://fullfact.org/economy/what-do-we ... t-pay-tax/

It's always been the same and unlikely to change within the next decades......irrespective of the colour in power.

Maybe those who protest so loudly have an answer that would see a more equal society....but even then there will be those who prosper at the cost of the majority.

[HALMA 1983]

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
...no carpets on the bare floorboards we walked on for 18 months, windows rotten and falling out, no central heating only a small gas fire,a settee we had given, no T.V or car because they were luxuries, then we had our rates doubled with poll tax, within 6 months we were nearly repossessed and had to live on beans, a sack of potatoes and mince using our sons family allowance.

Is that not poverty?
And you were "nearly repossessed"? What if you were just a shade further and you had been repossessed? THEN would you have been in poverty?

Your rates doubled to SAVE money for the wealthy! I really don't think it is fair & reasonable for the poorest in our society subsidise the wealthiest. No car, no TV, no carpets but you had rates doubled so wealthy people could have a rates cut.

Incidentally, our first house was bought at 17% interest after it was repossessed. The people who owned it before us had done a 'moonlight flit'. The house had then been empty for 12 months while the repossession orders went through. They had left loads of stuff that they'd not been able to take with them. Baby clothing, crockery, towels. And the pile of bills that had pushed them over the edge. There were two cups still sitting there where they had their last brew before leaving. And some knitting. We looked through the paperwork that they left. They'd bought the house at about 8% and had borrowed up to their limits. They'd taken out addition loans to keep their heads above water. One of them was at an interest rate that meant the repayments weren't even covering the interest. I have no way of knowing if it was the poll tax that pushed them over the edge but I can imagine the stress, upset and eventually desperation that led to them throwing the towel in. But it would have made them feel better to know that they were doing their bit to help the vulnerable wealthy.

Do you have an opinion on how disability benefits are being slashed as 'austerity'? Mobility allowances taken away. ATOS Work Assessments? Pleased that disabled people are supporting the cuts in Cooperation Tax and billionaires who don't pay anything?

I wouldn't have been anything because I'd of gone home to my parents, family looks after family no matter what and my kids can rely on that until my dying breath,
Then onto your next topic about disability, I have been a carer for my daughter who has C.P for the last 25 years has certainly taken me past limits I never imagined and all the shit that goes with it but you know what
Despite her situation she, like her family just get on with it and she's worth more than 10 of your moaning threatening placard waving jokers

[shrimpnsave]

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
...no carpets on the bare floorboards we walked on for 18 months, windows rotten and falling out, no central heating only a small gas fire,a settee we had given, no T.V or car because they were luxuries, then we had our rates doubled with poll tax, within 6 months we were nearly repossessed and had to live on beans, a sack of potatoes and mince using our sons family allowance.

Is that not poverty?
And you were "nearly repossessed"? What if you were just a shade further and you had been repossessed? THEN would you have been in poverty?

Your rates doubled to SAVE money for the wealthy! I really don't think it is fair & reasonable for the poorest in our society subsidise the wealthiest. No car, no TV, no carpets but you had rates doubled so wealthy people could have a rates cut.

Incidentally, our first house was bought at 17% interest after it was repossessed. The people who owned it before us had done a 'moonlight flit'. The house had then been empty for 12 months while the repossession orders went through. They had left loads of stuff that they'd not been able to take with them. Baby clothing, crockery, towels. And the pile of bills that had pushed them over the edge. There were two cups still sitting there where they had their last brew before leaving. And some knitting. We looked through the paperwork that they left. They'd bought the house at about 8% and had borrowed up to their limits. They'd taken out addition loans to keep their heads above water. One of them was at an interest rate that meant the repayments weren't even covering the interest. I have no way of knowing if it was the poll tax that pushed them over the edge but I can imagine the stress, upset and eventually desperation that led to them throwing the towel in. But it would have made them feel better to know that they were doing their bit to help the vulnerable wealthy.

Do you have an opinion on how disability benefits are being slashed as 'austerity'? Mobility allowances taken away. ATOS Work Assessments? Pleased that disabled people are supporting the cuts in Cooperation Tax and billionaires who don't pay anything?

I wouldn't have been anything because I'd of gone home to my parents, family looks after family no matter what and my kids can rely on that until my dying breath,
Then onto your next topic about disability, I have been a carer for my daughter who has C.P for the last 25 years has certainly taken me past limits I never imagined and all the shit that goes with it but you know what
Despite her situation she, like her family just get on with it and she's worth more than 10 of your moaning threatening placard waving jokers

If there was a like this post would be a deffo LIKE/inspirational to say the least

[Gone_Shrimping]

Sorry Keith but I don't accept the word 'Poverty' here, we are NOT a third world country
...no carpets on the bare floorboards we walked on for 18 months, windows rotten and falling out, no central heating only a small gas fire,a settee we had given, no T.V or car because they were luxuries, then we had our rates doubled with poll tax, within 6 months we were nearly repossessed and had to live on beans, a sack of potatoes and mince using our sons family allowance.

Is that not poverty?
And you were "nearly repossessed"? What if you were just a shade further and you had been repossessed? THEN would you have been in poverty?

Your rates doubled to SAVE money for the wealthy! I really don't think it is fair & reasonable for the poorest in our society subsidise the wealthiest. No car, no TV, no carpets but you had rates doubled so wealthy people could have a rates cut.

Incidentally, our first house was bought at 17% interest after it was repossessed. The people who owned it before us had done a 'moonlight flit'. The house had then been empty for 12 months while the repossession orders went through. They had left loads of stuff that they'd not been able to take with them. Baby clothing, crockery, towels. And the pile of bills that had pushed them over the edge. There were two cups still sitting there where they had their last brew before leaving. And some knitting. We looked through the paperwork that they left. They'd bought the house at about 8% and had borrowed up to their limits. They'd taken out addition loans to keep their heads above water. One of them was at an interest rate that meant the repayments weren't even covering the interest. I have no way of knowing if it was the poll tax that pushed them over the edge but I can imagine the stress, upset and eventually desperation that led to them throwing the towel in. But it would have made them feel better to know that they were doing their bit to help the vulnerable wealthy.

Do you have an opinion on how disability benefits are being slashed as 'austerity'? Mobility allowances taken away. ATOS Work Assessments? Pleased that disabled people are supporting the cuts in Cooperation Tax and billionaires who don't pay anything?

I wouldn't have been anything because I'd of gone home to my parents, family looks after family no matter what and my kids can rely on that until my dying breath,
Then onto your next topic about disability, I have been a carer for my daughter who has C.P for the last 25 years has certainly taken me past limits I never imagined and all the shit that goes with it but you know what
Despite her situation she, like her family just get on with it and she's worth more than 10 of your moaning threatening placard waving jokers

Top post again

[Keith]

Okay, turn it on it's head. What are the Tories doing for poorer people in our society?

[HALMA 1983]

Okay, turn it on it's head. What are the Tories doing for poorer people in our society?

All this from a bloke who lives in one of the Biggest tax havens going?

Sorry Keith but I don't have the answers as to what any government will do? I've already set out above the journey myself, wife and kids have been through.
Again, Looking back at how we did it I really don't know but I do know the feeling of being on your own without help and there was sod all for us in the way of support but it certainly made me what I am today, Appreciate everything no matter how small, never take anyone or anything for granted, be thankful for what you have, be joyful is you have your health because that is worth more than any material thing.

55 in November, working 50 hours a week, caring for my daughters needs daily for 25 years, travel over to Blackburn twice a week to care for my wifes mother and her needs for the last 5 years.

It's called life, get through it the best way you can and survive, isn't that what most of us on low pay are doing?

[seasonsinthesun]

Okay, turn it on it's head. What are the Tories doing for poorer people in our society?

All this from a bloke who lives in one of the Biggest tax havens going?

Sorry Keith but I don't have the answers as to what any government will do? I've already set out above the journey myself, wife and kids have been through.
Again, Looking back at how we did it I really don't know but I do know the feeling of being on your own without help and there was sod all for us in the way of support but it certainly made me what I am today, Appreciate everything no matter how small, never take anyone or anything for granted, be thankful for what you have, be joyful is you have your health because that is worth more than any material thing.

55 in November, working 50 hours a week, caring for my daughters needs daily for 25 years, travel over to Blackburn twice a week to care for my wifes mother and her needs for the last 5 years.

It's called life, get through it the best way you can and survive, isn't that what most of us on low pay are doing?

Oldhamade, you sound like a great guy.
Your posts on here recently have been spot on IMO.
The reality is that we will never have a society that is fair and equal. Human nature always sees to that,
and in the system we have, some people are more competitive than others, more intelligent than others and will strive to better themselves.
That's life.
I do believe though that within our society, we have to help people who find themselves at a disadvantage, and help them to help themselves find their own way as positively as possible.