O/T We'll fight them on the prom

[heysham_mfc]

I wasn't sad to see Morecambe's Burger King go, crap food and crap service. Glad it did now :

http://www.lakelandecho.co.uk/morecambe ... 4279599.jp

me too better off without it

[Joel Ninety]

Joel, while you're online telling us your thoughts, please don't forget to tell the council. At the moment the only feedback being encouraged are objections.

http://planapps.lancaster.gov.uk/public ... htype=SPEC

Yeah I'll have a word with the internet and get it sorted. I'll put my parents' address though because Brixton isn't exactly local these days

[Joel Ninety]

DONE.

When I move back and become Mayor I will help do what is best for Morecambe. Vote for me.

[Phoenix]

Don't worry Joel, councillor archer wasn't asking anyone where they were from before handing them the "I Object" letter to sign.

You can read the I Object letters on the planning page, they're filed along with the planning documents. Quite a few say the view from the promenade will be ruined. No it won't, we'll have a new promenade unless they're flattening the lakes in which case maybe the view will be ruined. The view from Marine Road will be different though, instead of the nipple, sorry, Dome, hedges, Jugs of Tea £1.50 and high banking we'll have an entertainment area, flats, shops, seaside square, etc.

I just hope the view & restaurant link leads to a declaration of interest from my councillor when it is discussed formally. I'll be checking

[maggy]

just read Shrimpsscene link

http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/Documents/P ... 046-95.pdf
page 44

POLICY TO1
WITHIN THE MORECAMBE
TOURISM OPPORTUNITY AREA,
NEW COMMERCIAL LEISURE
DEVELOPMENT WILL BE
PERMITTED WHICH WOULD;
ENHANCE MORECAMBE AS
A VISITOR ATTRACTION;
AND
MAKE A POSITIVE
CONTRIBUTION TO THE
REGENERATION OF THE
AREA THROUGH SENSITIVE
DESIGN AND USE OF
MATERIALS AND
APPROPRIATE
ADVERTISING AND
SHOPFRONT DESIGN.
DEVELOPMENTS WHICH
WOULD PREJUDICE THE
TOURISM AND LEISURE ROLE
OF MORECAMBE TOWN
CENTRE WILL NOT BE
PERMITTED
What has housing got to do with tourism and leisure? They should build a pier or ice skating or hockey rink or a mariner or something like the chill factor in manchester

[Phoenix]

Maggy, take some time to read the planning applications and you will see there is more than just housing being offered. If you want to analyse shopfront design, just take a look along the existing promenade and how the council have allowed it to degenerate into the state it's in now. Take a look at FOBs windows, credit to the glazier that they haven't fallen out yet. And don't just look at the shop fronts, look above them and the state property is in in general. Short-term leases have given us a clutter of furniture either side of the Winter gardens and landlords keen to take the rent and not re-invest in the property.

There are a few exceptions though that are nice to see, specifically the curved glass front restaurant on the corner of marine road and skipton street. Full marks to whoever decided to restore it.

I think the development WOULD enhance Morecambe as a visitor attraction with the extra amenities it will provide including a top-class entertainment venue.

[Christies Child]

Maggy, take some time to read the planning applications and you will see there is more than just housing being offered. If you want to analyse shopfront design, just take a look along the existing promenade and how the council have allowed it to degenerate into the state it's in now. Take a look at FOBs windows, credit to the glazier that they haven't fallen out yet. And don't just look at the shop fronts, look above them and the state property is in in general. Short-term leases have given us a clutter of furniture either side of the Winter gardens and landlords keen to take the rent and not re-invest in the property.

There are a few exceptions though that are nice to see, specifically the curved glass front restaurant on the corner of marine road and skipton street. Full marks to whoever decided to restore it.

I think the development WOULD enhance Morecambe as a visitor attraction with the extra amenities it will provide including a top-class entertainment venue.

Could it be that this is the real issue that the Gardens people are worried about in that it could take away business from their project.......if it ever came to be. After all it's been decades of rumour and very little progress despite a significant amount of money being thrown at it. Some would even say 'wasted'.....

[maggy]

I have looked at the planning application yes some of it is good ,and will improve the area but what do you do in years to come when the people who have bought these apartments/flat decide to sell up and who ends up buying them yes landlords who take the rent and do not re invest in the area

[Phoenix]

I'm not sure you're describing what might happen on the promenade or what we have already. At least Urban Splash are trying. Knowing our luck someone will apply for listed building consent on the Jugs of Tea £1.50, if you search for photos of Morecambe it's what we're famous for

[maggy]

yes that is an eye sore and should have been pulled down years ago and fairplay to urban splash for wanting to invest in morecambe

[Phoenix]

If you use google's Images option and search for "Morecambe", on the first page that appears the 3rd photo is the derelict band stand and slightly further down you have Jugs of Tea £1.50. You have go to page 2 for the Winter Gardens.

If you search for "Morecambe" on flickr and view the results most recent first, JoT is the 7th photo. The 1st 2 photos are a sign and the "art" opposite the golf course. The 3rd through 6th are views from the promenade which no one is going to take away from us, climate change permitting.

[Keith]

AND MAKE A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION TO THE REGENERATION OF THE AREA...

I have looked at the planning application yes some of it is good ,and will improve the area but what do you do in years to come when the people who have bought these apartments/flat decide to sell up and who ends up buying them yes landlords who take the rent and do not re invest in the area

If Morecambe decides to 'move upmarket' why would the people who buy the apartments decide to sell up to slum landlords? That would happen if the Urban Splash development fails. If it is successful, then the owners would sell up to other, new owners. The irony is that this proposed development is likely to help the Winter Gardens because there would be the type of people who would use the WG development, right on their doorstep! The exact people who the Winter Gardens should be trying to entice inside (if it ever gets finished) would be right across the road... won't that actually be a good thing?

As for an ice rink etc, who do you propose would use it? You seriously think people will suddenly think 'ohh, let's go to Morecambe for a holiday, it's got an ice rink, grab your bucket and spade'? In case you haven't noticed, those holiday makers go to Benidorm now. They have done for a few decades now. Morecambe can keep trying to attract the 1950's back... and continue to decline in that failure, or Morecambe can aim to become the Brighton of the North, a cosmopolitan town where well paid, young professionals will choose to live, then commute to work. To do that the town needs to develop the infrastructure (the bypass), develop the quality of apartments in particular and provide decent quality 'service industry'. The Midland is a great beginning, a once derelict building is a magnificent advertisement for the town once more. You could hold the next part of the town development back, so that the people who are in the Winter Gardens restaurant (if it ever opens) can have a clear view towards Barrow ship yard... but it would appear to me to be an odd exchange and a huge risk.

Especially when the discerning diner is far more likely to be looking across The Bay towards the lovely mountains!

[Phoenix]

Facebook group for those in favour of the development, come and join the existing 186 members

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25563102174

[Truth]

Theres alot of diatrite and disinfo on this thread which requires correction. I think the personal attack on a councillor guilty of informing the public of the content of the planning application is akin to shooting the messenger or playing the man not the ball. Its diabolical and hopefully is not supported by Morecambe FC.

So lets play the ball.

The reason Morecambe is on the up at last is because of the huge scale of investment of public money in the town.

Urban Splash run the Midland Hotel. They set up a hotel company within their organisation as they informed the public that they had been unable to find an operator interested in paying the monthly rent charges they were seeking.

How much cash has Urban Splash invested or splashed in Morecambe to date? Whats in the detail in the partnership agreement between the Council and US?

The Midland Hotel project received £9 million of public money. What was US's contribution?
US payed less than £0.5 million for the Midland. Did they know that public money for the Midlands restoration would be forthcoming before they put in their bid?

US commenced on site in June 2005 and the Midland became operational in June 2008 when the project had not been completed. Thats three years to complete the project. How long did it take to build the Hotel in the 1930s?

US has not impress me with their perforamnce in restoring the Midland and their schemes dont impress me at all. What does impress though is the huge profits they make and how they manage to acquire public land/assets so cheaply.

The dominant land use in US proposals in the planning applications is residential (high rise flats/apartments). Approaching 600 units. Do the maths, thats an approximate total selling value of £90 million.

Its a property developers dream and they have not paid a penny for the land. If the council were to put the central promenade site up for sale on the open market with planning permission for 600 residential units how much do you think the highest bidder would pay?

That land is a public asset and is owned by the ratepayers of Morecambe and Lancaster so isurely its the majority decision of this group that should decide on how the land is developed if US has not purchased it, not out of town Morecambe FC supporters.

BTW has Morecambe FC paid back that ten year £200k interest free loan given by Lancaster City Council ratepayers for Christie Park ground improvements yet?

Best wishes to the Shrimps for a successful 2008-09 season.

[CASS]

BTW has Morecambe AF paid back that ten year £200k interest free loan given by Lancaster City Council ratepayers for Christie Park ground improvements yet?

Best wishes to the Shrimps for a successful 2008-09 season.

I don't know about the loan,nice little "uncalled for" dig by the way,But what Morecame F.C.
can be proud of is putting some pride back in to the area. I am an out of town fan who does not get involved in threads like this,but some expats still have family here and unlike some residents they have a great love of the place,why should they not have their considered opinion ? The only positive news regularly coming out of Morecambe over the last couple of years has been Football news,perhaps Rod and Peter should take over running the council.

[Keith]

Welcome to Shrimpsvoices message board 'Truth', hope you enjoy using it. Bit of an odd name if you don't mind me saying so? Your folks must have had an odd turn when they christened you that! I bet your sisters are Destiny and Chastity? Anyway, I'm Keith Fitton a Morecambe FC 'Life Season Ticket holder.. As you might guess from my avatar, I don't live in Morecambe anymore. We talk about all kinds of stuff on here and we try to let people have freedom of speech as long as it's not abusive or using excessively foul language. Or libellous either! Seriously, you don't have to hide behind a nom de plume on here, we're friendly.

Theres alot of diatrite and disinfo on this thread which requires correction. I think the personal attack on a councillor guilty of informing the public of the content of the planning application is akin to shooting the messenger or playing the man not the ball.

Ah you see... with me living outside the town, I trusted Brian when he said that the councillor was getting people to sign that they objected to the development. I thought that was what happened but obviously he was mistaken and she was simply 'informing' people.

...hopefully is not supported by Morecambe AFC.

Obviously, I hope it *is* supported by them, but I also don't expect them to say so in an official capacity. If anyone from the club ever expresses an opinion about something as unrelated to football as this, it's pretty good guess that it is a personal opinion and not a 'club' one.

The reason Morecambe is on the up at last is because of the huge scale of investment of public money in the town.

Urban Splash run the Midland Hotel. They set up a hotel company within their organisation as they informed the public that they had been unable to find an operator interested in paying the monthly rent charges they were seeking.

How much cash has Urban Splash invested or splashed in Morecambe to date? Whats in the detail in the partnership agreement between the Council and US?

The Midland Hotel project received £9 million of public money. What was US's contribution?
US payed less than £0.5 million for the Midland. Did they know that public money for the Midlands restoration would be forthcoming before they put in their bid?

US commenced on site in June 2005 and the Midland became operational in June 2008 when the project had not been completed. Thats three years to complete the project. How long did it take to build the Hotel in the 1930s?

So why didn't anyone else do it? Why was it an eye sore for so many years? If it was a risk free venture, why didn't anyone else do it and succeed? And if 'all' US did was coordinate the grants and other investments, then take their time in completing the project before taking a health profit, then so be it! At least they delivered on their promises and there is now a working hotel instead of a derelict building. How long did it take to build The Midland anyway? While I'm asking, how long did it take to build the Winter Gardens? It feels like that's been 'getting done up' since the eighties!

US has not impress me with their perforamnce in restoring the Midland and their schemes dont impress me at all. What does impress though is the huge profits they make and how they manage to acquire public land/assets so cheaply.

Well most people think that The Midland Hotel is better now than it was before US got involved but if you don't think so, that's a valid opinion... well, it's an opinion at least...

The dominant land use in US proposals in the planning applications is residential (high rise flats/apartments). Approaching 600 units. Do the maths, thats an approximate total selling value of £90 million.

Its a property developers dream and they have not paid a penny for the land. If the council were to put the central promenade site up for sale on the open market with planning permission for 600 residential units how much do you think the highest bidder would pay?

Property developer in land grab? Shock!

That land is a public asset and is owned by the ratepayers of Morecambe and Lancaster so isurely its the majority decision of this group that should decide on how the land is developed if US has not purchased it, not out of town Morecambe AFC supporters.

You're saying that 'out of town' folk have no right to expressing an opinion? You've no opinion about the Middle East or the US Elections? You've never expressed an opinion about anything that happens outside your town? How parochial! Perhaps it is exactly that inward looking approach to Morecambe that got it into such a mess in the first place? You're right, the tax payers of the town will decide. Hopefully, come the next elections, they will make it very clear what they think. Hopefully, they will decide that an upward and outward looking approach to the town is just what is needed. Not living there, I don't know... is that bandstand ever used? I bet it is and I bet it brings the people flocking to the town.. just like the Good Old Days (A music hall reference in a thread about the Winter Gardens... did you see what I did there?)

BTW has Morecambe AF paid back that ten year £200k interest free loan given by Lancaster City Council ratepayers for Christie Park ground improvements yet?

You're probably best asking the club that, you won't find an official answer on here...

Best wishes to the Shrimps for a successful 2008-09 season.

At least you didn't call us the Shrimpers! Not a fan of Morecambe FC then?

[Phoenix]

Theres alot of diatrite and disinfo on this thread which requires correction. I think the personal attack on a councillor guilty of informing the public of the content of the planning application is akin to shooting the messenger or playing the man not the ball. Its diabolical and hopefully is not supported by Morecambe AFC.

You want facts? OK, FACT: Councillor Archer's stand in the Arndale contained 5 piles of "I Object" letters and some A4 photocopies of an aerial view of the plans with the Winter Gardens drawn on in red felt pen. Not exactly informative and why was the Winter Gardens highlighted alone? Why were the full plans not available? Surely THAT would be informative, especially from my councillor? Biased information to say the least.

Ah you see... with me living outside the town, I trusted Brian when he said that the councillor was getting people to sign that they objected to the development. I thought that was what happened but obviously he was mistaken and she was simply 'informing' people.

Councillor Archer, as she introduced herself, had a stand in the Arndale with piles of "I Object" letters for people to sign. Before she realised I was Phoenix she was telling me all about the views that would be ruined by the development. There was no opportunity for me to say "I Support" and Councillor Archer did not take my full name & address in order for her to statistically prove that when she talked to the council, she was putting the majority view forward. What I said about asking if she would put my view forward is word-for-word precise. Councillor Archer is one of my 3 ward councillors. It went far beyond informing people.

I suspect Truth is either Councillor Archer, her husband or political colleague. Some of the phrases used I heard before in the Arndale. Having lectured me about anonymous messages, it's a shame "the opposition" haven't got the balls to say who they are.

The Midland Hotel project received £9 million of public money. What was US's contribution?
US payed less than £0.5 million for the Midland. Did they know that public money for the Midlands restoration would be forthcoming before they put in their bid?

Who has ever said it was all US money, you want to read the thread in full before you reply. You still have to give US full credit for putting the funding together, NO ONE ELSE MANAGED TO DO IT.

That land is a public asset and is owned by the ratepayers of Morecambe and Lancaster so isurely its the majority decision of this group that should decide on how the land is developed if US has not purchased it, not out of town Morecambe AFC supporters.

Back to this majority crap again. Prove to me Councillor Archer is putting the majority view forward. Let her show us my signature on the Support list of names she was(n't) gathering.

The views anyone expresses on here are their own, this is an entirely 101% unofficial football forum that just happens to be a lively place for debate. The O/T prefix means Off Topic therefore not even related to the football site it isn't.

BTW has Morecambe AF paid back that ten year £200k interest free loan given by Lancaster City Council ratepayers for Christie Park ground improvements yet?

What relevance has that to the Midland? Or are you just having a nasty dig at something none of us on here have any control over? I like the holier-than-though attitude though, it made me do some googling;

"I do resent Councillor Archer's allegation that the Council is not behind the Winter Gardens. The Council previously loaned £112,000 to keep the building safe and watertight and that has not yet been repaid.

Best wishes to the Shrimps for a successful 2008-09 season.
At least you didn't call us the Shrimpers! Not a fan of Morecambe FC then?

Definitely not, stock phrase you'd expect to find tagged onto the end of the council minutes Maybe they should be so they can get some use out of the council's loan

That land is a public asset and is owned by the ratepayers of Morecambe and Lancaster so isurely its the majority decision of this group that should decide on how the land is developed if US has not purchased it, not out of town Morecambe AFC supporters.

Patronising, definite sense of deja vue here. Did you not think for one moment you might have just wound up someone looking to move to Morecambe?

Thanks for that, Evelyn

Its a property developers dream and they have not paid a penny for the land. If the council were to put the central promenade site up for sale on the open market with planning permission for 600 residential units how much do you think the highest bidder would pay?

Who has allowed them rights to develop on that site? The council did as a thank you for doing something no one else could do, restore an eye-sore. Basically what has happened is the council have said yes please, gather your millions together and rebuild that shit-hole on the prom and if you do, we'll let you develop around it. That's brilliant, the hotel is marvellous, now piss off. That's the kick in the teeth that will deter anyone else interested in developing in our town.

I would also like to say a massive thank you to the other 257 members of the pro-US facebook group and the individuals whose correspondance to the council has started to appear on the planning site.

For once the silent majority aren't staying silent.
About bloody time.

[Keith]

I was working in England a few months ago and finished early, so drove up to Morecambe before getting the ferry back home. Because I was early, everyone I knew was at work or out, so I had a couple of hours to kill. It was a wet day so what did I do? Well, I did park outside Hitchens and have a walk around in there. Even that shop is looking weary, thread-bare carpets and knackered windows. I had a look at the outside of the Winter Gardens and thought to myself (not for the first time over the years) what a shame that place is still shut and still largely derelict. I went in to the amusement arcade for half an hour and watched for a few moments as a women was shovelling coins in to a machine as fast as she could, then it dawned on me that it was £1 a spin! I left that high point of entertainment in the town and went back to the car. I seriously thought about parking at Morrisons or driving to ASDA for a walk around and sit in the cafe but I couldn't be bothered with getting out in the rain, so instead, drove to my sisters house and parked outside and played a game on my phone until she arrived home with her children. If there had been a band playing at the bandstand, I might have listened to them for a while, but sadly, even that highlight on the list of Morecambe's attractions lay undisturbed. Had the Midland Hotel been open, I'd almost certainly have gone in for a look and tried to remember the last time I was there. I could have found much more to do in Lancaster to pass a couple of hours, the museums, the castle, the shops and of course, Williamson's Park and the Ashton Memorial. I could even have found a welcoming boozer for a pint (of orange, I was driving).

Perhaps the people who don't want an open debate about this (especially not with out of towners) should instead be asking 'why' people like me moved away in the first place? And what it is that would stop people like me moving back?

I love the town of Morecambe,it really saddened me to see it at its lowest ebb. I'm delighted to see the regeneration that has already been done but what next? I firmly believe that the bypass will be a massive boost to the area (I'm confused, did the councillor vote for the bypass or oppose it? It's just Phoenix appears to be suggesting she was against it while she's saying she was for it? I'm easily confused).

When Morecambe pitched itself as a 'great place to be unemployed' it filled with the unemployed. The challenge is to make it a great place to be employed and live.

So, after yet another long ramble... I'll condense my view point down to a manageable line...

For Morecambe to grow it needs to be accessible and attractive as a place to live, for people who have a decent disposable income. Those people, generally younger professionals, need decent housing. Other businesses, decent shops, bars & cafés will follow as those people will need somewhere to spend their money.

Does the councillor have an opinion regarding developing the area around Heysham port to make it an attractive place for businesses to invest? Wouldn't want to spoil the view from that observation tower would we?

[Phoenix]

Keith, Evelyn Archer's vote for or against the bypass is extremely well documented. May I refer you to the Lancaster Guardian;

http://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/fron ... 2988976.jp

HOW THEY VOTED
AGAINST: Evelyn Archer, June Ashworth, John Barnes, Keith Budden, Shirley Burns, Anne Chapman, Chris Coates, Roger Dennison, Keran Farrow, Rebekah Gerrard, Mike Greenall, Emily Heath, Andrew Kay, David Kerr, Geoff Knight, Ian McCulloch, Geoff Marsland, Roger Plumb, Cariona Stamp, Joyce Taylor, Morgwn Trolinger, Anthony Wade, John Whitelegg, Maia Whitelegg and Paul Woodruff.

The other snippet I quoted was taken from the notes of an interview with Evelyn Archer posted online.

A Highways Agency spokesman has confirmed the public inquiry will progress as planned and added he couldn't remember another instance where a city council had pulled out of an inquiry at the 11th hour.

One way or another, some people seem determined to ruin our town.

Perhaps this bypass debate could be continued in another thread, let's not sidetrack from the main Midland discussion.

So back to the Midland. Some people are being pursuaded that the development will ruin the view with 7-storey buildings. Perhaps rather than have their views clouded by biased opinions they should take a look at the plans where they will find not all the buildings are 7-storey. The view famously pointed out to me by my councillor will only have a 3-storey building in front of it, not as high as the theatre itself.

That land is a public asset and is owned by the ratepayers of Morecambe and Lancaster so isurely its the majority decision of this group that should decide on how the land is developed if US has not purchased it, not out of town Morecambe AFC supporters.

Which means Truth will be on the phone to Wayne Hemingway first thing Monday telling him he can shove his comments where the sun don't shine because he's an out-of-town non-rate-payer. Amazing how people/politicians use situations to suit themselves.

[Truth]

Phoenix states:-

I suspect Truth is either Councillor Archer, her husband or political colleague. Some of the phrases used I heard before in the Arndale. Having lectured me about anonymous messages, it's a shame "the opposition" haven't got the balls to say who they are.

Absolute bullshine: I'm just a Morecambe ratepayer who like many on this forum choose to use a pseudonym. I hope that you can respect that and refrain from the insults and flame tactics by sticking to civilised debate and playing the ball not the man.

As far as I am concerned I am not the opposition because we seem to have the same wish for Morecambe: for its regeneration to be successful.

Everyones entitled to their opinion but plse before you state it check out the evidence and get the truth and don’t try to get other folk on your side with disinfo.

My opinion of Lancaster City Council is that it is and still remains a badly performing authority which has a total disregard for public accountability. The Partnership Agreement signed with Urban Splash in 2003 remains a mystery. It does not appear on the Councils website yet the Partnership Agreement with Centros Miller in Lancaster does!

Without Councillor Archer’s presentation in the Arndale many folk would be still in the dark concerning US proposals for the central prom area. If people choose to object to these proposals then that’s their choice. She certainly did not force me to object. I checked out the info which proved to be correct. In my opinion these proposals are totally imbalanced mixed use proposals, biased towards a property developers interests in seeking to maximise profits. Also in my opinion they threaten the viability of the Midland Hotel operations.

Have any of you pro US people visited the Midland yet or even thoroughly examined the detail in the planning applications which are not accessible on the councils website?

If you have not yet visited the Midland go on the rooftop and take in those breathtaking sea views with the Lakeland hills in the background and if your lucky a sunset. The jewel in the crown as Wayne H correctly states. Stand on the gym/café terrace balcony and look over the central prom area then envisage what this proposed development would do to that view. Any owner of the Midland Hotel with its interests as a viable hotel operation at heart would never make such proposals. Do Urban Splash not intend to stay in Morecambe after the central prom is completed?

Also whilst you are there focus on the seafront to the right of the stone jetty which forms a smallish bay. What is that screaming out for? A top quality marina maybe!

Urban Splash need to get back to the drawing board if their proposals are going to receive the support of the majority of the ratepayers of Morecambe and Lancaster.

Peace & truth

[skyecat]

Also whilst you are there focus on the seafront to the right of the stone jetty which forms a smallish bay. What is that screaming out for? A top quality marina maybe!
Peace & truth

And if a marina were to be built... atracting £1,000`s of pounds worth of watercraft - each mostly in excess of £30,000 most likely - where are the owners likely to shop - hitchins and woolworths? - I think not
That is where the new development comes in surely.
Upmarket shops,restaurants, hotels and entertainment venues to either attract or service existing well healed clientele.

[Phoenix]

Truth, Councillor Archer went beyone raising awareness into carrying round and handing out I Object letters. You say we all need to go to the planning office to see the plans so we know whats going on yet you say Evelyn was doing a good job raising awareness with a doodle of the WG on a poor A4 photocopy of one diagram - blinkered, biased and it can hardly be called informative. I wouldn't have minded if everyone had a chance to sign, for or against, so she could genuinely monitor the opinion of the majority. As for you being a ratepayer, so am I and I am unfortunate enough to have Councillor Archer as my ward councillor. I was in the Midland the day it opened, I've seen the views from the top, I've seen the online plans and I've even been to the planning office and Yes, I still want the development to go ahead.

Councillor Archer's signature is on the legal docs for the WG and she's chair of the friends. She told you that when she talked about the development, didn't she?

So you've talked to Evelyn have you? Strange how you haven't actually mentioned once any of the major points she raised e.g. View from the WG and road narrowing.

Please don't quote Wayne H, as you have already stated non-rate-paying out-of-towners aren't allowed to have a say about the development. The problem with your attitude is they will always stay out-of-towners. According to Councillor Archer, your opinion isn't valid because you are a faceless nickname on a football forum. That's the petty mindedness we are up against.

I agree, the views from the Midland (but not the WG) may disappear BUT we'll get more viewing places where Joe Public doesn't feel they need permission to go. Stop thinking about what we have now and what will disappear, think about the finished product and how it will open up the incredible view of the lakes to more people. The promenade isn't disappearing, we're getting a new one with more than the view and some kids swings to encourage people to use it.

Maybe that's what local businesses and theatre owners are really worried about, a bit of competition. It's about time their attempts to stifle growth of my town were stopped.

At the moment, there are 347 members of the pro-US facebook group. All with opinions as valid as anyone else on this forum that chooses to have an opinion yet remain nameless. However on facebook, the majority use their real name.

Finally Truth, you claim "disinfo" on this thread yet haven't corrected anything that has been typed so far. Instead you have chosen to raise other topics around the development. Either tell us what we have got wrong or shut up about it.

[Truth]

And if a marina were to be built... atracting £1,000`s of pounds worth of watercraft - each mostly in excess of £30,000 most likely - where are the owners likely to shop - hitchins and woolworths? - I think not
That is where the new development comes in surely.
Upmarket shops,restaurants, hotels and entertainment venues to either attract or service existing well healed clientele.

Chicken and egg here. Exactly my point. Build the marina first then that creates the commercial viability for the shops, restaurants, hotel etc. Building the marina is investment in Morecambe but US dont appear to want to do that. Why not?

I've seen the views from the top, I've seen the online plans and I've even been to the planning office and Yes, I still want the development to go ahead

OK Phoenix (odd name that ) you've had your vote but what about the other 129,000 people/shareholders/ ratepayers in the area covered by the local authority of Lancaster City Council? I suspect that the majority of them are oblivious to US proposals due to a Council and local press which fails in its responsibilities to act in the public interests and ensure that we are fully and properly informed.

Looking at the Planning website entry the deadline for receipt of objections for the full application is 4th August and for the Outline application it is 7th August. Mine is on its way.

If you want to influence people to support US present proposals Phoenix why not get yourself to the Arndale, replicate the Councils display and start a petition with real names and addresses on it. I'd wager that you would not need many pages.

Does anyone know how many phases there are going to be and the timescale US are working to for completion of the development? Also I didnt spot a public loo on the US proposals.

BTW I've not used Councillor Archers blank page format, but got the correct address from it of where to send it. I've used my own.

The council have already turned what was a beautiful colourful landscaped promenade into a maintenance free revenue collecting car park, so are housing estates the next phase?

Respect

[Phoenix]

I'm glad you find my name funny, I find yours patronising. If you bothered to put as much time into the discussions on this forum as you did the planning applications, you'd know why I use that name. In this thread you'll also find I have the balls to print my full name. Now there's a challenge for you.

I don't see how the local press are failing, both papers have made it headline news in print and online.

what about the other 129,000 people/shareholders/ ratepayers in the area covered by the local authority of Lancaster City Council?

Yee gods, still harping on about tight boundaries. I have yet to see a council rule which stops ANYONE from expressing an opinion about a planning application.

BTW I've not used Councillor Archers blank page format, but got the correct address from it of were to send it. I've used my own.

You might not have used the form but you obviously took it. Very clever that, make it look like you've got an opinion of your own.

I still look forward to some genuine critiscism from you of anything I have said.

[Truth]

I don't see how the local press are failing, both papers have made it headline news in print and online

I suggest that you read this weeks letters page in the Visitor Phoenix, and before you make any further allegations on a public forum please make sure its true.

Look forward to meeting you in the Arndale with your petition and then you can substantiate your claim that US are investing in Morecambe, because in my opinion based on their present proposals, the amount they've splashed on the Midland, its a travesty of the truth.

BTW what protection is there of the £9 million of public money in the Midland? i.e if they decide to sell in future do they keep all the cash and do they own all the fixtures and furniture?

Peace, truth & respect