Is it the players or the management?

[jona77]

To be honest I would consider myself to be one of those stay away supporters. Through my job unfortunately I can only attend week day matches which is restricting! I have supported Morecambe for over 30 years and I never ever missed a mid week game at home. However like others this Tuesday just gone I weighed up the option of watching champions league football on tv or attending the Port Vale game and parting with £18 ( which too me is a lot of money!) Thankfully I chose the former! Unfortunately Jim can only work with the players at his disposal but as others have pointed out I still think he doesn’t know his best starting 11 if every one is fully fit or the best formation. He certainly does make some strange substitutions and appears to play players out of position. You can count on one hand the home performances at the globe where you can honestly say the team have performed well. I think that the current crop of players don’t seem to be motivated and are certainly not playing to their full potential. This may be partly down to the management but also the lack of pressure on their own place in the team as the quality in our squad is a bit thin. I like Jim he is Morecambe through n through however I think he should take some responsibility for the crap being offered up at home for a few seasons now.

[Phil Anderer]

I'd have to agree in principle with the Marksman here. There is no single party to blame, but there are a number of factors, some of which could be addressed without the need for money. As I see the problems, they are:

1. Budgetary constraints - We do have a small budget, hampered significantly by the lack of bums on seats, and I do agree that lack of entertainment impacts on the latter (more of which later). Without a new 'sugar daddy', this is not going to change;

2. Management - I don't believe there is any lack of commitment from the management team, but I do start to worry when the manager blames the players. If you care to look back at my posts from Sammy Mac's time, when he started slagging off the players, I more than once pointed out that: a) he trains the team, b) he chooses the tactics, c) he picks the players, and d) he's responsible for motivating the players. Those are the manager's 4 key responsibilities in my opinion, so if the players are underperforming in his eyes, then surely he is failing in at least 1 of those 4. Therefore the sub-categories of Item 2 are:

2a. Training - Someone has suggested that they team train for barely more than an hour a day on Turner's Field. I'm not saying this is true, as I have absolutely no knowledge of this, I'm merely referring to someone else's post. If, however they are having as little as 1 to 1.5 hours' training at actual football a day, with the remainder being gym-based fitness training, plus some 'classroom'- based theory/tactical training, then I would be worried. One thing in particular we seem poor at dealing with is sides that close us down when on the ball, leading (in my opinion) to much of the hoofball we see;

2b. Tactics - Unlike some, and as noted above and in other posts, I'm not convinced hoofball is a tactic, but rather our default 'panic-mode' setting. Again as above, I think this could be because the players are not being trained to deal with this. If they were, and being trained to do it effectively, then they would not only deal with it much better, but by training for it, we would also be able to dish it out to others when necessary. I actually think that part of not doing it is precisely because they are being trained for a more open, entertaining style, but thereby not being able to cope when they can't play that way. That is why we get such huge contrasts between the recent games and, say, Newport & Luton. I could, of course, be completely wrong, as I have no knowledge of what is actually being trained for, or what the actual tactics are;

2c. Team choice - We will all have our differences of opinion on what is the best team if everyone's fit. The big worry is the amount of chopping and changing that goes on, which surely doesn't help;

2d. Motivation - Different people respond differently to different management styles, but clearly if the players look undisciplined and lacklustre, something is wrong in that department;

3. Players - We can only get the players we can afford, and who are willing either to travel to Morecambe or relocate there. That limits our choices, so playing at our level, with our budget, it's always going to be a struggle to get decent players, and for all our expectations, I think we as fans should at least accept that as a fact;

4. Fans - Yes, we have a responsibility as well, encouraging from the sidelines, spending our money to help the club's finances, and expressing our opinions, whether we agree or disagree, as if nobody said anything the club's owner/management would think nothing was wrong and carry on regardless. If the results and performances are poor, as recent ones have been, fans are going to vote with feet and pockets, and the club will lose money, reducing further the money in the coffers. I'm not being judgemental, merely stating fact. We as fans want to be entertained, and if we aren't attendances will continue to fall, and as stated by others, we will fall down the league(s).

Sorry for the long-winded tome, but just setting out where I see the issues we face. I think the evidence is there that we can do a lot better with what we have (I refer again to Newport & Luton), but something clearly isn't working fully. I do think the management could improve things, but then I also accept that Jim Bentley knows more about football than my little toe, so all I can do is express my opinion, and keep spending my money up to the point where I no longer feel it is worthwhile.

[Shrimpy]

2a. Training - Someone has suggested that they team train for barely more than an hour a day on Turner's Field. I'm not saying this is true, as I have absolutely no knowledge of this, I'm merely referring to someone else's post. If, however they are having as little as 1 to 1.5 hours' training at actual football a day, with the remainder being gym-based fitness training, plus some 'classroom'- based theory/tactical training, then I would be worried. One thing in particular we seem poor at dealing with is sides that close us down when on the ball, leading (in my opinion) to much of the hoofball we see;

I don't think you can completely blame Jim for this one. I walk past the training ground every day and at the moment it's an absolute state. Most days there are large areas where it's completely water logged.

One morning last week there were about 40 birds making the sudden lake that was running half the length of one of the pitches their home.

[Phil Anderer]

2a. Training - Someone has suggested that they team train for barely more than an hour a day on Turner's Field. I'm not saying this is true, as I have absolutely no knowledge of this, I'm merely referring to someone else's post. If, however they are having as little as 1 to 1.5 hours' training at actual football a day, with the remainder being gym-based fitness training, plus some 'classroom'- based theory/tactical training, then I would be worried. One thing in particular we seem poor at dealing with is sides that close us down when on the ball, leading (in my opinion) to much of the hoofball we see;

I don't think you can completely blame Jim for this one. I walk past the training ground every day and at the moment it's an absolute state. Most days there are large areas where it's completely water logged.

One morning last week there were about 40 birds making the sudden lake that was running half the length of one of the pitches their home.

The bit I forgot to mention with this is that someone else said they've got 3G pitches to train on as well, whether behind the ground or at the college, so I would hope these are being used supplementary to any training on Turner's Field.

[Freez]

After a home game like the Pork Vale one, its little wonder there is unrest. They played a high line and worked hard, it appeared to flummox us completely! But they weren't exactly Brazil 1970 were they?

Some good points Phil, however I don't believe the training for an hour a day is accurate, possibly on inclement days, maybe, but certainly not every day from what I know.
As for chopping and changing, TBF we only dropped WIldig for Turner the other night, but we have had some daft reds and injuries to contend with recently, but I think squad rotation tends to be the way these days.

Onwards and hopefully upwards.

Oh and I think our main stand was modelled on Shrewsbury, as Burtons is one tier and far smaller than ours, but could be wrong.

[Phil Anderer]

After a home game like the Pork Vale one, its little wonder there is unrest. They played a high line and worked hard, it appeared to flummox us completely! But they weren't exactly Brazil 1970 were they?

Some good points Phil, however I don't believe the training for an hour a day is accurate, possibly on inclement days, maybe, but certainly not every day from what I know.
As for chopping and changing, TBF we only dropped WIldig for Turner the other night, but we have had some daft reds and injuries to contend with recently, but I think squad rotation tends to be the way these days.

Onwards and hopefully upwards.

Oh and I think our main stand was modelled on Shrewsbury, as Burtons is one tier and far smaller than ours, but could be wrong.

Freez, I know you're not really picking holes, but to clarify I didn't state that as my belief, only that someone else on here had suggested it. My comments were more to do with my fears if that were accurate, not saying it was. In respect of changes to the side, I put that in more because it seems to be a common complaint on here from certain quarters, and was not referring specifically to the most recent game(s).

[marky No.1]

It beggars belief that with our multi million pound move to a new FOOTBALL stadium, with all its main stand fancy bits, didn't put a training ground facility for the FOOTBALLERS very high up the pecking order - unbelievable !

I know Jim looks out of his window every morning hoping for a clear sky!

[Freez]

Phil, was just answering on the thread as a whole not just your post.
I do feel that squad rotation is the modern way. The days of Villa winning the league are gone never mind with 13 players!!

[thedoc]

We need action to halt the decline in our beloved club. We need change. If nothing is done we will be relegated and slip into football oblivion.

Saying `we need change' doesn't take anyone anywhere. Never heard the phrase `a change for the worse'? Who is going to do a better job of keeping a football club whose ownership have lost interest in it and have fewer people watching the team live than most clubs in the National League could expect to show up? Jim Bentley is by far the best asset Morecambe Football club have. Who - and let's live in the real world here - is going to do a better job than him? We need to support him, not constantly snipe at him from the safety of these pages: he's done an impossible job brilliantly for year after year on a shoestring budget with inadequate resources. In my opinion, the single thing that will indeed guarantee that the Shrimps `will be relegated and slip into football oblivion' is if he leaves for whatever reason. Be careful what you wish for...

[Freez]

Sticks head over parapet.........

"Agreed",

Retreats back down......


cue backlash.............

[fulwoodshrimp]

Another change would be investing in the team at the approaching transfer window. The club is apparently for sale currently at around 4.5million. If relegated its value probably would be a tenth of this figure. It would make economic sense to allow management to invest in a couple of players to halt the decline.

[BerlinWaller]

There are 72 football league clubs. Take away the 24 Championship clubs who will have their pick of Manager and you are left with 48 possible management jobs. I am pretty sure there are a lot more than 48 out of work managers who are looking for a club. I do not buy in to this "who could do a better job?". Who else could survive with such an awful record that over 1000 fans have stopped coming? We have settled for the piss poor because it is Jim, no other reason.

Nobody could do a better job than Jimmy Harvey until Sammy turned up and got us promoted within 18months. Who could do a better job, becareful what you wish for is nothing but scaremongering. Plenty of Managers would apply for the job and drag us out of this sorry state we find ourselves in.

[Westgate Wanderer]

It beggars belief that with our multi million pound move to a new FOOTBALL stadium, with all its main stand fancy bits, didn't put a training ground facility for the FOOTBALLERS very high up the pecking order - unbelievable !

I know Jim looks out of his window every morning hoping for a clear sky!

So if it rains on a matchday we are unable to play? I find it funny that whenever we go on a bad run of results (about every other month) the ground move and poor training facilities comments always appear along with it's the chairmans fault! In Jim (teflon) Bentley you trust!

[mfcbro]

Got to agree with Shrimpy,the training facilities are dire.Not long ago both thommo and oliver were injured on the training pitch and missed the next match thommo 2 matches.The state of the training pitch not only leads to injuries but affects potential signings.Who would want to train on a pitch more suited to water polo.Getting to the point players or management we had 4 good chances on tuesday night in the 1st 20 mins then they go up and score their 1st chance.Like has been said on this thread i think a lot of things contribute to our present plight.Lets get behind management and players and give them our support in which is going to be a difficult season.If it wasnt for abdull we wouldnt be in the footbll league imo.Come on you shrimps