The hole in midfield

[fulwoodshrimp]

It is only fair to recognise the improvement in our defence. Sam Lavelle is beginning to look like a quality defender and with Muller and Old is forming a formidable combination. However, midfield is largely absent despite Rose's best endeavours and its good to see him returning to something like last season's form. Opposing teams seem to enjoy the freedom of the midfield and our tactics still rely on long balls to Oliver who lays the balls off regularly to empty space or an opposition defender. I'm not blaming Oliver as he seems to have no support for much of the time and ploughs a lone furrow. Our side is heavily defensively focused and concentrated on not conceding. Yesterday we shut up shop for most of the second half and encouraged Stevenage to come at us. They gladly did this. I believe if we had gone looking for a second goal the points would have been ours. A positive minded midfielder would have ensured we kept moving forward and stopped the opposition throwing too many players forward. Any chance of us signing one in the transfer window?

[marky No.1]

Most of the holes were made by the opposition players leaping around like salmon as if they had been shot

[fulwoodshrimp]

They certainly were diving around. They quickly realised an incompetent official would fall for it! I thought yesterday's referee was abysmal and not fit to referee in the Football League.

[Gone_Shrimping]

It is only fair to recognise the improvement in our defence. Sam Lavelle is beginning to look like a quality defender and with Muller and Old is forming a formidable combination. However, midfield is largely absent despite Rose's best endeavours and its good to see him returning to something like last season's form. Opposing teams seem to enjoy the freedom of the midfield and our tactics still rely on long balls to Oliver who lays the balls off regularly to empty space or an opposition defender. I'm not blaming Oliver as he seems to have no support for much of the time and ploughs a lone furrow. Our side is heavily defensively focused and concentrated on not conceding. Yesterday we shut up shop for most of the second half and encouraged Stevenage to come at us. They gladly did this. I believe if we had gone looking for a second goal the points would have been ours. A positive minded midfielder would have ensured we kept moving forward and stopped the opposition throwing too many players forward. Any chance of us signing one in the transfer window?

Elliot Osborne was such a player but Southport (yes Southport from Conference North) offered Fleetwood a fee and signed him.

[BerlinWaller]

The team set up with 3 CB 2 DEF MIDS and 2 WB's. That is 7 defensive players. There was no midfield as such. The ploy was to get it up to Oliver and try and get Lang and Ellison near him for the knock downs. Our goal came from a rare attacking run from Conlan.

We got what we deserved for sitting back and being ultra negative. I felt the game was crying out for McGurk who would get at them.

Totally agree about the back 3, they are looking solid. Lavelle is really coming on so credit to Jim for the work done there.

[George Dawes]

The team set up with 3 CB 2 DEF MIDS and 2 WB's. That is 7 defensive players. There was no midfield as such. The ploy was to get it up to Oliver and try and get Lang and Ellison near him for the knock downs. Our goal came from a rare attacking run from Conlan.

We got what we deserved for sitting back and being ultra negative. I felt the game was crying out for McGurk who would get at them.

Totally agree about the back 3, they are looking solid. Lavelle is really coming on so credit to Jim for the work done there.

Tricky position the Wing back job, fullbacks when asked to play there tend to play as fullbacks, Wingers when asked tend to Attack, be interesting to see Rose(left footed) do a job there, delivers a good ball.

Also Fleming who's a good engine as the potential as right wing back.

[Christies Child]

I suspect that Jim's priority this transfer window will be an experienced attacking midfielder and a defensive one subject to the availability of money that MAY be forthcoming with the departure of 2 players with possibly a couple more to follow in the near future.

The defence is well covered and the striking options depend very much on the level of service from midfield which could be better hence why I feel Jim will be concentrating his efforts on the midfield areas.

[BerlinWaller]

The team set up with 3 CB 2 DEF MIDS and 2 WB's. That is 7 defensive players. There was no midfield as such. The ploy was to get it up to Oliver and try and get Lang and Ellison near him for the knock downs. Our goal came from a rare attacking run from Conlan.

We got what we deserved for sitting back and being ultra negative. I felt the game was crying out for McGurk who would get at them.

Totally agree about the back 3, they are looking solid. Lavelle is really coming on so credit to Jim for the work done there.

Tricky position the Wing back job, fullbacks when asked to play there tend to play as fullbacks, Wingers when asked tend to Attack, be interesting to see Rose(left footed) do a job there, delivers a good ball.

Also Fleming who's a good engine as the potential as right wing back.

It is a none position for me. They are neither an attacker or a defender. It must be a horrible place to play as you have to cover the length of the pitch. I think Conlan and AJ are good for the role. They are young and athletic lads but in the last few minutes their legs had totally gone.

I don't think Rose will thank you for suggestion.

[parceldave]

Agree with Fulwood in the fact that we were far too defensive in the second half and no pressure at all on their defence, had we done so i think the chances would have developed. I also think we need to vary our going forward approach by using the wing-backs in a more attacking mode rather than lumping the ball up to Oliver's head for him to flick it on to Mr Nobody, when you've used this tactic a couple of times the defence wise up to it and keep him quiet . Another reason for playing the wing=backs further up field is that it give the defensive midfielders an option of a 5-10 yard pass rather than a 30 yard pass in to touch or straight back to the opposition which was what was happening yesterday.

[Little Shrimp]

I felt we started with the midfield that should have maybe ended the game yesterday. I think we need Fleming in the centre with Kenyon/Rose to maintain some fluidity or we'll just get bogged down with long balls. I know we beat Grimsby with the Kenyon/Rose duo but our goals came from a shoddy defensive lapse and a goalkeeping error and we were playing a Grimsby side who have struggled for goals this season. Our goal yesterday was a brief moment of inspiration from Conlan and Kev's goal nose but other than that, we created very little.

Rose can ping a good pass around but is well into his 30s and can't consistently keep chasing and running like he does in flashes all game. The less said about Kenyon's ball playing the better. I know he's gritty and wins stuff in the air but he can't pass at all, and for a CDM he's way way way too easy to turn/beat.

We have three good CBs who are all big guys, and seem pretty comfortable with their feet. Surely they don't need two CDMs sitting in front of them all game? Just have one (my pick would be Rose) and then Fleming in there to offer a bit more movement between defence and attack. I realise that Jim's introduction of Fleming for Rose when we were sitting on a lead was to get someone on to carry/pass the ball a bit more as we were losing the ball within seconds of us winning it, but surely having Fleming or even Wildig in the middle from the start instead of Kenyon/Rose would have helped us create a bit more?

[George Dawes]

Defensive midfield as always been a problem position since we've been in the FL.

Name a decent consistent D/M we've had in the FL?

In my opinion the best we've had but only very briefly and he looked the part was Paul Scott the ex Bury Captain, but sadly fallen out with Sammy and then got a bad injury soon into his Morecambe career.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I like the team better when Fleming , McGurk and Wildig are in it. They give the opposition defence far more to think about. I thought Kenyon had a 'mare yesterday.

[BerlinWaller]

I like the team better when Fleming , McGurk and Wildig are in it. They give the opposition defence far more to think about. I thought Kenyon had a 'mare yesterday.

That is the sort of line up you should be putting out at home. Not 7 defenders! How attacking was the bench yesterday? Wildig, Thommo, Campbell and McGurk! I think the term is "Parking the Bus".

[parceldave]

I like the team better when Fleming , McGurk and Wildig are in it. They give the opposition defence far more to think about. I thought Kenyon had a 'mare yesterday.

Im normally a fan of Wildig but yesterday for the brief period he was on , i thought he was poor and didn't seem to know what his job was, in fact all down the left was in total disarray in the last ten minutes.

[underbank]

Im normally a fan of Wildig but yesterday for the brief period he was on , i thought he was poor and didn't seem to know what his job was, in fact all down the left was in total disarray in the last ten minutes.

He made a bright start, but then fell away. Can't remember if it was a throw in or free kick off the Berlin Wall, but he just stood, not marking anyone, and barely moved when the ball was played around him. Just didn't seem to know what to do, who to mark, etc. Perhaps it was just cobwebs due to not playing the last few games?

[parceldave]

Im normally a fan of Wildig but yesterday for the brief period he was on , i thought he was poor and didn't seem to know what his job was, in fact all down the left was in total disarray in the last ten minutes.

He made a bright start, but then fell away. Can't remember if it was a throw in or free kick off the Berlin Wall, but he just stood, not marking anyone, and barely moved when the ball was played around him. Just didn't seem to know what to do, who to mark, etc. Perhaps it was just cobwebs due to not playing the last few games?

They will all need to be cobweb less against Luton , if we play the same formation then Oliver will be bladdy freezing.

[sandgrown]

It is only fair to recognise the improvement in our defence. Sam Lavelle is beginning to look like a quality defender and with Muller and Old is forming a formidable combination. However, midfield is largely absent despite Rose's best endeavours and its good to see him returning to something like last season's form. Opposing teams seem to enjoy the freedom of the midfield and our tactics still rely on long balls to Oliver who lays the balls off regularly to empty space or an opposition defender. I'm not blaming Oliver as he seems to have no support for much of the time and ploughs a lone furrow. Our side is heavily defensively focused and concentrated on not conceding. Yesterday we shut up shop for most of the second half and encouraged Stevenage to come at us. They gladly did this. I believe if we had gone looking for a second goal the points would have been ours. A positive minded midfielder would have ensured we kept moving forward and stopped the opposition throwing too many players forward. Any chance of us signing one in the transfer window?

unfortunately its the same old Jimbo thinking !

[Bplshrimps]

I also agree with the comments on Lavelle and the back 3. All good efenders who are quite mobile so against the so called lesser oppositions in the league, I don’t think we need a decent midfielder playing in front of them. I agree sometimes Kenyon gives them really good protection.
I think in this window a real goal scorer is needed or I’d like to see a good winger brought in as I believe Mcgurk could be our goal scorer if he stays fit.

[seasonsinthesun]

When I watch other teams, plus on television, they always appear to pack their midfield areas, with both defensive and offensive type players.
So it looks like teams set up with four sometimes five across the midfield.
Is that what we try to do with our wing backs making up the number in midfield?
Premier league and championship teams seem to do this, and league two teams as well.
Which presumably is a safeguard against being overrun in midfield which SVers on here often mention.

[Posh]

Interesting debate but question some of the comments.

To criticise Alex Kenyon who was outstanding against Yeovil and delivered the cross after a surging run for Kev’s winner seems ridiculous to me. The problem is making best of use of him in the side.

I also think McGurk is very over-rated. His style of play is similar to Callum Lang, yet Lang seems hungrier, fitter and faster.

The fundamental issue is formation. Jim has varied between four and three at the back all season. The reason I think he keeps changing is to keep the opposition guessing.

Three at the back works if Aaron, as he’s done well all season, and Conlon are allowed to push up, effectively making either four or five across the middle.

Up front Oliver is poor as a lone striker. While he’s got pace and energy his first touch with head or feet isn’t great. Jim has countered this in some games by playing Thommo and Kev, but they’ve both pushed out wide leading to Vadaine getting no support. He has to play in a front two and ideally with a man behind him. Alongside Kev both have done well but it needs Lang (or Campbell or Wildig) behind them in support. That then leaves two places and I agree that it’s these roles that are critical. At the moment they rotate between Rose, Kenyon and Fleming. Personally, with a back three I don’t think they should need an out and out defensive midfielder in there. I’d have Fleming and Rose but the weak points has been Rose’s form (need a Brian Healy in there). In a four at the back though Alex is a must for me in front of defence because he protects and allows the other midfielders to push on. He could also be part of a three at the back.

[marky No.1]

Interesting debate but question some of the comments.

To criticise Alex Kenyon who was outstanding against Yeovil and delivered the cross after a surging run for Kev’s winner seems ridiculous to me. The problem is making best of use of him in the side.

I also think McGurk is very over-rated. His style of play is similar to Callum Lang, yet Lang seems hungrier, fitter and faster.

The fundamental issue is formation. Jim has varied between four and three at the back all season. The reason I think he keeps changing is to keep the opposition guessing.


Up front Oliver is poor as a lone striker. While he’s got pace and energy his first touch with head or feet isn’t great.

Alex isnt great at distribution, but I like him in the thick of it, he is proud to wear the shirt.

I cant believe McGurk is only 28, was chuffed to get him here and thought he would really show the others what to do. He does a great thing now and again, but does appear lazy or bothered about injury?

If we are changing formation to keep the other team guessing, then I think it confuses ourselves more. Play to our strengths and let them worry about us!

Oliver needs a partner within 5-7 yards of him, shame he can't turn, shoot and score, he would be worth £125M

[Christies Child]

Interesting debate but question some of the comments.

To criticise Alex Kenyon who was outstanding against Yeovil and delivered the cross after a surging run for Kev’s winner seems ridiculous to me. The problem is making best of use of him in the side.

I also think McGurk is very over-rated. His style of play is similar to Callum Lang, yet Lang seems hungrier, fitter and faster.

The fundamental issue is formation. Jim has varied between four and three at the back all season. The reason I think he keeps changing is to keep the opposition guessing.


Up front Oliver is poor as a lone striker. While he’s got pace and energy his first touch with head or feet isn’t great.

Alex isnt great at distribution, but I like him in the thick of it, he is proud to wear the shirt.

I cant believe McGurk is only 28, was chuffed to get him here and thought he would really show the others what to do. He does a great thing now and again, but does appear lazy or bothered about injury?

If we are changing formation to keep the other team guessing, then I think it confuses ourselves more. Play to our strengths and let them worry about us!

Oliver needs a partner within 5-7 yards of him, shame he can't turn, shoot and score, he would be worth £125M

I've been a long time advocate of Oliver needing someone to capitalise on his lay offs especially with his head. If he knew he had someone to aim for his heading would be far more productive.

Posh reckons that his first touch is poor and to some extent I agree but his close control in tight situations is good...in my opinion.

As for Alex, his distribution is terrible but his enthusiasm can't be questioned.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Interesting debate but question some of the comments.

To criticise Alex Kenyon who was outstanding against Yeovil and delivered the cross after a surging run for Kev’s winner seems ridiculous to me. The problem is making best of use of him in the side.

I also think McGurk is very over-rated. His style of play is similar to Callum Lang, yet Lang seems hungrier, fitter and faster.

The fundamental issue is formation. Jim has varied between four and three at the back all season. The reason I think he keeps changing is to keep the opposition guessing.

Three at the back works if Aaron, as he’s done well all season, and Conlon are allowed to push up, effectively making either four or five across the middle.

Up front Oliver is poor as a lone striker. While he’s got pace and energy his first touch with head or feet isn’t great. Jim has countered this in some games by playing Thommo and Kev, but they’ve both pushed out wide leading to Vadaine getting no support. He has to play in a front two and ideally with a man behind him. Alongside Kev both have done well but it needs Lang (or Campbell or Wildig) behind them in support. That then leaves two places and I agree that it’s these roles that are critical. At the moment they rotate between Rose, Kenyon and Fleming. Personally, with a back three I don’t think they should need an out and out defensive midfielder in there. I’d have Fleming and Rose but the weak points has been Rose’s form (need a Brian Healy in there). In a four at the back though Alex is a must for me in front of defence because he protects and allows the other midfielders to push on. He could also be part of a three at the back.

I only mentioned Alex having a poor game against Stevenage , his passing at times was aimed at a guy on the Berlin Wall. He was excellent against Yeovil as were his colleagues once they had got over a dreadful first half.

[parceldave]

Interesting debate but question some of the comments.

To criticise Alex Kenyon who was outstanding against Yeovil and delivered the cross after a surging run for Kev’s winner seems ridiculous to me. The problem is making best of use of him in the side.

I also think McGurk is very over-rated. His style of play is similar to Callum Lang, yet Lang seems hungrier, fitter and faster.

The fundamental issue is formation. Jim has varied between four and three at the back all season. The reason I think he keeps changing is to keep the opposition guessing.


Up front Oliver is poor as a lone striker. While he’s got pace and energy his first touch with head or feet isn’t great.

Alex isnt great at distribution, but I like him in the thick of it, he is proud to wear the shirt.

I cant believe McGurk is only 28, was chuffed to get him here and thought he would really show the others what to do. He does a great thing now and again, but does appear lazy or bothered about injury?

If we are changing formation to keep the other team guessing, then I think it confuses ourselves more. Play to our strengths and let them worry about us!

Oliver needs a partner within 5-7 yards of him, shame he can't turn, shoot and score, he would be worth £125M

Cole Stockton -125m wow.

[Keith]

Am I the only one who always sees this thread title and reads it in the style of the Waterboys?
'you saw the whole of the moon...'
becomes
'you saw the hole in mid-field, the hole in mid-field... nah...nah..nah...'


I bet I WAS the only one.
I bet I've implanted that in someone elses' head now!

[For our younger views, here's what music was like thirty+ years ago]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TON3PORRDQ
Now sing along 'you saw the hole in midfield'