O/T who is to blame

[steve mfc]

Here we go again nobody has said we should be playing like Brazil or challenging for the play offs or beating teams like Forest Green we all know they have a bigger budget and our training facilities are crap, its not even about success its about the decisions made by the manager the way the team is set up, players playing out of position and the time it takes to make changes during the course of the game in both formation and personal.

You may or may not agree with the criticism but please can we stop having the same excuses trotted out every time any criticism is directed at Jim Bentley, its a football forum surely we should be able to discuss matters on the pitch without the criticism being twisted and turned into something its not even about just to defend the manager.

Its not about being positive or negative, we all want the same thing but the constant defence of Jimbo when there is any criticism at all only has the effect of making people more polarised in their opinions.

Freez you say "we went for it and it paid off" but my argument would be why did it take so long to make the changes when it was obvious after the first ten minutes that it wasn't working if the changes had been made sooner just maybe we would have picked up all three points, now that has nothing to do with the budget or any of the other reasons that constantly get brought up, its all about opinions but I just find it frustrating when so many people on here get so defensive and start bringing up issues that have nothing to do with the points raised.

The defence only comes up when the same old ignorant bollocks is spouted time and time again. It works both ways. Or does only one side of the argument have to shut up?

Well i did say we shoud be able to discuss matter's on the pitch nowhere did i say that i didn't want anyone to defend the managers decision's in fact i was trying to encourage debate only without people bringing up the budget ownership issues when it had nothing to do with the points being discussed.

Now if you think im spouting the same old ignorant bollocks please feel free to point out to me where im going wrong.

[BerlinWaller]

The pro Jim fans usually admit openly that he makes mistakes , most anti Jim fans are blinkered , hateful, and full of disrespect, not all of them, just the same old half a dozen.

But turn up every week supporting the players, the club and the town? The usual guff from you my friend. Remember, there was a club before Jim and hopefully there will be one after him.

I hope none of this post offended you but i am.sure your support network will be on hand to console you.

[mrpotatohead]

Someone open a window it stinks in here.

[red shrimp]

The pro Jim fans usually admit openly that he makes mistakes , most anti Jim fans are blinkered , hateful, and full of disrespect, not all of them, just the same old half a dozen.

With the group of players we have in the squad, we should be higher up the table. We have good individual players who can do a job. Unfortunately we look beaten before we've even started. The players don't look motivated to me, they just pass through games. No drive, no urgency, and that's down to the way we set up, Not to concede. We should have gone at Forest Green from the 1st min. The players and management have got themselves in this relegation battle, but from that showing on Saturday, they don't seem to be up to the fight. I think luckily there are 2 teams worse than us this season in Chesterfield and Barnet , and it's a bloody good job. The draw flattered us on Saturday, and papered over a load of cracks. We were very poor, and if we carry on playing like that then it's only a matter of time before we go down. This is a football Forum, and believe it or not MPH, not everything you say is right. You talk ****

[Ntini]

Ok. It's my fault. According to Mrs O, everything is my fault. So might as well add this to the list.

Nope, definitely my fault...

[Little Shrimp]

Back on topic, who to blame? Don't think there is a sole person behind it all. McGuigan seems to have not done a great job on the ground and acted naively/selfishly. McIlroy wasted the money, playoff momentum and new ground feel good factor completely leaving Jim with a tough job. Jim's failed miserably to find any kind of home form which is the real reason we have lost fans. People come to ground to watch football, a bad pint is an inconvenience and if we were a pub then I could see how that would lose punters but we're not, we're a football team. Bad football loses the punters. And let's not forget Diego!

What a load of rubbish about the 'anti-Jim' crew. Honestly, I am probably more anti-Jim than pro-Jim as I'm sick of his tactics this season. Does that mean I can't objectively view his positives? Of course not! While I find him tactically lacking, some of his signings have been inspired. To name a good few, Ellison, Fenton, Beeley, Price (I liked him!), Wildig, Devitt, Redshaw, Barkhuizen, Miller, Stockton, McGurk, Lang, Old, Muller, Edwards, Lavelle. However, this season the negative hoofball has just been ridiculous.

[red shrimp]

What a load of rubbish about the 'anti-Jim' crew. Honestly, I am probably more anti-Jim than pro-Jim as I'm sick of his tactics this season. Does that mean I can't objectively view his positives? Of course not! While I find him tactically lacking, some of his signings have been inspired. To name a good few, Ellison, Fenton, Beeley, Price (I liked him!), Wildig, Devitt, Redshaw, Barkhuizen, Miller, Stockton, McGurk, Lang, Old, Muller, Edwards, Lavelle. However, this season the negative hoofball has just been ridiculous.[/quote]

I feel there are more 'anti Jim' fans than certain people believe! Agree about the signings as he has made some brilliant ones.

As for the long ball hoof game, it's been like this for 5 years. nothing changes.

[Keith]

Does that mean I can't objectively view his positives?

Unfortunately, there are some people who can’t objectively view Jim’s management. My view is that he’s worked miracles just keeping us in the Football League without a pot to piss in every season. If he had Sammy’s budget and we were in the same position, playing the same style of football, then I’d agree with others that he’s failing. But to have a budget that wouldn’t compete with most of the Conference and keep us in League Two is outstanding.

Now, if ‘nice football’ at a lower league is the preference, then fair enough. I tend to agree it was more fun going to Woking than Mansfield, but that isn’t the target that he’s set each season.

I’d love to see Jim given a season with a decent pitch and a decent budget, then we’d really know.

Back to your quote, likewise, there are some people who are anti-Peter McGuigan in the same way. They blame him for everything, forgetting where we were before he came along. I’d agree that The Globe was a cock-up in so many areas, but there was a lot more before then too.

[Christies Child]

This constant theme posted by many that The Globe is a cock up begs the question as to where were they when the stadium opened I don't recall many complaining about the stadium when it was opened to the public.

It is what it is, far from perfect but given the circumstances around the cost to redevelop Christie Park both inside and outside the stadium area what choice did PMcG and the Board have at the time

And as for those constantly having a pop at PMcG given his financial backing of the club at the time, he was perfectly at liberty to take back some of the money he'd invested because I'm bloody certain the majority would have done the same.

Nobody is perfect and PMcG is far from perfect, but without his financial backing it's quite possible we would now be playing at a level below the National League.

I don't see many money men stepping forward to take over our club at the moment so maybe PMcG deserves a bit of thanks, although the usual suspects will still continue to have a pop at him.

[Keith]

I don't recall many complaining about the stadium when it was opened to the public.

I said on the open day that I thought the wall behind the rear of the away end is an accident waiting to happen and I still maintain that it is. If we were getting large enough away crowds on a regular basis, at some point there will be a crush or an accident that the emergency services will struggle to get to. I also thought the view from behind the home end goal was restricted, although at the time many of us were mourning the old North Stand at Christie Park. Finally, my opening day criticism was why were the crush barriers round? At Christie Park, they were perfect for balancing a pie and Boveril on!

What concerns me now, that didn't then, is that my belief was that all the money raised from the sale of Christie Park was being spent on The Globe and that this would all be transferred to The Christie Trust. Now, I'm not so sure that has happened, only the land is held by the trust?

Ultimately, [as someone else has already said], it wasn't simply one thing that led us to this point, it has been a series of occurrences.

The real question shouldn't be how did we get here, but how do we move forwards?

[Potted Shrimp]

There have been a lot of posts regarding the drop in attendances but I think the reason why fans don't turn up in numbers is simply down to the cost. £16 at the cheapest for an adult is expensive and Morecambe isn't exactly an affluent town that is why attendances at the at the moment are similar to those when the club was a solid conference club. The board should be doing more to attract the fans, not only from the local area but particularly north Lancs and south Lakes where there is no competition from other clubs, the nearest being Carlisle. Of course other factors come into play, chiefly results and performances on the pitch.

I hope the club doesn't fall out of the league because once you fall through that trap door it would be very difficult to get back up, especially when you look at the big ex-football league clubs down there, eg Tranmere and Wrexham, and the sugar daddy clubs with money aiming for football league status such as Salford, Fylde, Ebbsfleet and Billericay. The likes of Stockport and York have slipped further and struggled....only then would people be saying 'remember the good old days' etc.

[Christies Child]

Never let a cup of Boveril or should that be Bovril stand in the way of a fair reply with some valid points.

As for where do we go from here....like you and all others, I haven't a clue and am getting increasingly concerned what will happen as and when our current benefactor's good will runs out.

All previous talk of new investors in the frame has gone very quiet from both parties concerned.

[Potted Shrimp]

Relegation would be a disaster for the club, could take many years to get back without significant financial backing. There are many clubs below with a much better financial backing, support and facilities.

As has been pointed out the fact the club has survived so long is a fantastic achievement, the fans are clearly there, but the club needs to find a way of bringing them back in.

[Keith]

I hope the club doesn't fall out of the league because once you fall through that trap door it would be very difficult to get back up, especially when you look at the big ex-football league clubs down there, eg Tranmere and Wrexham, and the sugar daddy clubs with money aiming for football league status such as Salford, Fylde, Ebbsfleet and Billericay. The likes of Stockport and York have slipped further and struggled....only then would people be saying 'remember the good old days' etc.

Totally agree. I think if we get relegated, we wouldn't be back again. If a sugar daddy was out there, he'd have come in for us by now I think. It's easily forgotten that we've been peers to ex-Premiership clubs in recent years, and hosted the likes of Newcastle United. That won't happen very often if we fall through the trap door.

[Posh]

What a grim and self-destructive thread.

Loads of criticism of Jim but no mention of a pitch, which has been awful since we moved to the Globe. I always remember Andy Parrish explaining that after a couple of months it was almost impossible to play the ball first time because you couldn’t trust the bounce.

Comments about a good squad, yet we’ve got the lowest budget that few mention. How do we build a good side for promotion when every gem we dig up leaves to double their salary (Barkhuizen, Redshaw, Edwards, Miller etc.).

I agree that Jim’s tactics annoy the hell out of me but we’ve survived in the League every season when we’ve consistently been the favourites to go down. And every year it means we get the chance to get a decent side in the League Cup or FA Cup or find a sugar daddy willing to take a punt on a League club.

Ditching Jim would be shit or bust. If it went wrong and got relegated then I don’t think we’ll have a football club. Survive and it may happen anyway.

[Christies Child]

The pitch certainly leaves a lot to be desired but why is it that some teams are able to play it on the deck with some success

Nobody disputes that Jim and Co produce a miracle every season on limited funds. Maybe one season we could see us playing the ball to feet. It's quite possible that the result would not see us in a perpetual battle to stave of relegation.

[marky No.1]

They will play the ball predominantly on the deck on Saturday, you watch

[Gone_Shrimping]

Relegation would be a disaster for the club, could take many years to get back without significant financial backing. There are many clubs below with a much better financial backing, support and facilities.

As has been pointed out the fact the club has survived so long is a fantastic achievement, the fans are clearly there, but the club needs to find a way of bringing them back in.

Dagenham & Redbridge , often called a "Southern Morecambe" are in financial difficulties.

[shrimperteer]

Someone on here, I can't remember who, said that they would do a better job of managing the team.

If that's not the complete definition of ignorant bollocks then I don't know what is.

[Christies Child]

Someone on here, I can't remember who, said that they would do a better job of managing the team.

If that's not the complete definition of ignorant bollocks then I don't know what is.

We are all armchair managers thinking that we could do a better job....IF your team is struggling to avoid relegation.

However IF your manager's team is near the promotion spot, then he / she is bloody brilliant

Just love for us to sample some of the latter....

[sandgrown]

As has been pointed out the fact the club has survived so long is a fantastic achievement, the fans are clearly there, but the club needs to find a way of bringing them back in.

Dagenham & Redbridge , often called a "Southern Morecambe" are in financial difficulties.[/quote]



read in the press today that West Ham are to play D&R in a friendly during the March International break with 100% of the gate going to D&R to help with their financial problems.

would be nice if we could get a similar gesture from one of our many neighbours !

[cyprus-shrimp]

Let's at least stop blaming the pitch. Take a look at the Reserves beating Port Vale (see my post on the TRIALIST thread). They played good football "on the deck" and scored 4 goals. And several of those playing were members of the "first team squad". Work it out guys!!!!

[Christies Child]

Let's at least stop blaming the pitch. Take a look at the Reserves beating Port Vale (see my post on the TRIALIST thread). They played good football "on the deck" and scored 4 goals. And several of those playing were members of the "first team squad". Work it out guys!!!!

Hallelujah.....

[Gone_Shrimping]

Let's at least stop blaming the pitch. Take a look at the Reserves beating Port Vale (see my post on the TRIALIST thread). They played good football "on the deck" and scored 4 goals. And several of those playing were members of the "first team squad". Work it out guys!!!!

And the Port Vale website said that Vale had a very experienced side. They were not kids that we beat.

The first goal was a superb move which left Adam Campbell with time to pick his spot and stroke it into the net.

[Westgate Wanderer]

Let's at least stop blaming the pitch. Take a look at the Reserves beating Port Vale (see my post on the TRIALIST thread). They played good football "on the deck" and scored 4 goals. And several of those playing were members of the "first team squad". Work it out guys!!!!

Shhhhh you will get Drummy into trouble