Realism debate

[mfcbro]

The problem is fulwood shrimp is we don't have adequate training facilities.Last season we didn't train on grass from October to march.simply not good enough.I would invite any fans to go and have a look at our training facilities.Disgraceful.Its like a swimmer not been able to train in a pool.

[fulwoodshrimp]

I accept we have to improve our training facilities but we have to be careful that we don't use this as an excuse for poor organisation. Poor training facilities for instance doesn't excuse not marking opposition players like we witnessed yesterday at Bury. It doesn't excuse hoof ball all the time like we saw yesterday. I will happily contribute to new training facilities if the new owners find appropriate land but meanwhile we have to get the basics right and that we are not doing.

[Westgate Wanderer]

I accept we have to improve our training facilities but we have to be careful that we don't use this as an excuse for poor organisation. Poor training facilities for instance doesn't excuse not marking opposition players like we witnessed yesterday at Bury. It doesn't excuse hoof ball all the time like we saw yesterday. I will happily contribute to new training facilities if the new owners find appropriate land but meanwhile we have to get the basics right and that we are not doing.

I believe that most of last season Accy were begging and borrowing any area they could to train, didn't seem to do their playing style any harm!

[mrpotatohead]

Yes and my grandad smoked 80 Capstan full strength a day and lived to be 115...

[BerlinWaller]

Postby BerlinWaller » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:52 am

"I was a bit dubious about getting involved as this thread was created by Jim's number one fan but sod it...

New owners making very little impact.
PMG staying on the BoD's was the worst thing that could have happened to the club.
A Manager who has knocked any ambition we had out of us and is tactically inept.
Horrible tactics and team selections. Can someone tell Jim that we are getting hammered down the flanks every game and if possible, could he do something about it?
No evidence of any planning or coaching.
Some good signings but important positions overlooked. Wildig and Flemmo were bench warmers last season but are the midfield this season.
League 2 whipping boys"
I was a bit dubious as jims number1 fan about replying but sod it here goes,I agree new owners have made very little impact apart from steadying the ship ie wages etc.I also agree about pmg staying.But comments about knocking ambition , tactics, planning and coaching are totally wrong.Have you been down to look at our training facilities lately?How anybody is meant to plan coach and prepare a side is beyond me.Not excuses by the way fact.My back lawn is in better nick.As for signings and important positions being overlooked,no money to offer,wages not being paid,crap training facilities what players would want to come to Morecambe.

Looks like I walked in to your cunningly laid trap there mate

We all know the issues the Club has regarding training facilities, budget (even though it is a bigger budget than last season) and the planets not being in the right place every Saturday at 3pm. Old news isn't it? Sammy had the same issues about training but he did something about it. Jim Harvey never complained about it and he produced some of the best players we have had. Accrington don't sign players who can't train on 4G.

My advice is, if you don't like the answers then don't be asking the questions.

[shrimperteer]

Postby BerlinWaller » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:52 am

"I was a bit dubious about getting involved as this thread was created by Jim's number one fan but sod it...

New owners making very little impact.
PMG staying on the BoD's was the worst thing that could have happened to the club.
A Manager who has knocked any ambition we had out of us and is tactically inept.
Horrible tactics and team selections. Can someone tell Jim that we are getting hammered down the flanks every game and if possible, could he do something about it?
No evidence of any planning or coaching.
Some good signings but important positions overlooked. Wildig and Flemmo were bench warmers last season but are the midfield this season.
League 2 whipping boys"
I was a bit dubious as jims number1 fan about replying but sod it here goes,I agree new owners have made very little impact apart from steadying the ship ie wages etc.I also agree about pmg staying.But comments about knocking ambition , tactics, planning and coaching are totally wrong.Have you been down to look at our training facilities lately?How anybody is meant to plan coach and prepare a side is beyond me.Not excuses by the way fact.My back lawn is in better nick.As for signings and important positions being overlooked,no money to offer,wages not being paid,crap training facilities what players would want to come to Morecambe.

Looks like I walked in to your cunningly laid trap there mate

We all know the issues the Club has regarding training facilities, budget (even though it is a bigger budget than last season) and the planets not being in the right place every Saturday at 3pm. Old news isn't it? Sammy had the same issues about training but he did something about it. Jim Harvey never complained about it and he produced some of the best players we have had. Accrington don't sign players who can't train on 4G.

My advice is, if you don't like the answers then don't be asking the questions.

I reckon we should hire you and WestgateWanderer as joint managers.

[BerlinWaller]

Postby BerlinWaller » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:52 am

"I was a bit dubious about getting involved as this thread was created by Jim's number one fan but sod it...

New owners making very little impact.
PMG staying on the BoD's was the worst thing that could have happened to the club.
A Manager who has knocked any ambition we had out of us and is tactically inept.
Horrible tactics and team selections. Can someone tell Jim that we are getting hammered down the flanks every game and if possible, could he do something about it?
No evidence of any planning or coaching.
Some good signings but important positions overlooked. Wildig and Flemmo were bench warmers last season but are the midfield this season.
League 2 whipping boys"
I was a bit dubious as jims number1 fan about replying but sod it here goes,I agree new owners have made very little impact apart from steadying the ship ie wages etc.I also agree about pmg staying.But comments about knocking ambition , tactics, planning and coaching are totally wrong.Have you been down to look at our training facilities lately?How anybody is meant to plan coach and prepare a side is beyond me.Not excuses by the way fact.My back lawn is in better nick.As for signings and important positions being overlooked,no money to offer,wages not being paid,crap training facilities what players would want to come to Morecambe.

Looks like I walked in to your cunningly laid trap there mate

We all know the issues the Club has regarding training facilities, budget (even though it is a bigger budget than last season) and the planets not being in the right place every Saturday at 3pm. Old news isn't it? Sammy had the same issues about training but he did something about it. Jim Harvey never complained about it and he produced some of the best players we have had. Accrington don't sign players who can't train on 4G.

My advice is, if you don't like the answers then don't be asking the questions.

Good shout. He can sit in the directors box and i can sit writing things down as we get raided down the flanks time after time.

[P/T Indie]

Look at bpool their training ground is shocking and the manager was paying to hire somewhere else out of his own pocket

What is the issue with turners field I thought we had done a lot of work to it. However I do believe the lack of equipment the ground staff have is a rather comical.

[mfcbro]

You didn't walk into a trap berlinwaller you didn't even answer the question.I ask again where would you realistically expect us to be ?Apart from league 2 whipping boys.Sorry the question should be where do you want us to be? You talk about Sammy who by the way had a far bigger squad/budget,1st thing when jim took over was to have his budget cut.Season after season by the way.If you think we have a lot bigger budget this season I don't think so.Were you on holiday when we played well and beat Northampton ? Didn't see you post then , again you wouldn't would you.Alot of people on here only post when we get beat.Were all Morecambe fans and should stick together win or lose.

[black morse]

You didn't walk into a trap berlinwaller you didn't even answer the question.I ask again where would you realistically expect us to be ?Apart from league 2 whipping boys.Sorry the question should be where do you want us to be? You talk about Sammy who by the way had a far bigger squad/budget,1st thing when jim took over was to have his budget cut.Season after season by the way.If you think we have a lot bigger budget this season I don't think so.Were you on holiday when we played well and beat Northampton ? Didn't see you post then , again you wouldn't would you.Alot of people on here only post when we get beat.Were all Morecambe fans and should stick together win or lose.

I think most of us think that Jim probably still has quite a small budget and he appears to have put together a good squad with the money available. Baring one or two exceptions many would agree with the actual starting line ups. It's the way that those players are told to play that is the problem.

[mfcbro]

I understand what you are saying black morse but I don't think the players are told to play that way.Spurs got beat yesterday,pochettino didn't tell them to play that way I am sure.Lets not forget morecambes players are league 2 players for a reason,they don't go out to play badly,they are not consistent enough week in week out.

[fulwoodshrimp]

I post when we play well and indeed posted after the good performance against Northampton but it upsets me when we turn in poor performances like against Bury as I know we can do better. Out tactics are wrong. Giving Bury's wide men the freedom of the park is a crazy tactic probably intended to bolster our midfield and stop the opposition's midfield bursting through but it allows a team's wide men to get to the by line and cross for strikers to score. There is no future in that kind of tactic just as there is no future in hoof ball to a big striker with no support. We need fresh thinking in our approach to games if we are to become a decent mid-table league 2 side. The occasional good performance is not good enough for survival.

[mfcbro]

And your answer is fulwood shrimp ? Sometimes you have to hold your hand up and say the opposition is better than you,Which will be unfortunately the most part of this season.We are what we are,and once again in a relegation battle.Until things change off the pitch being a Morecambe fan is going to be tough.That was the reason for my original post.We arnt going to win every game,we arnt going to push for promotion but I think the last 3 performances suggest we are heading in the right direction.Sam Lavelle,tuitte and aj to come back will certainly help.COY Shrimps

[fulwoodshrimp]

I agree that the return of Lavelle, Tutte and AJ will boost the side but I think we have to accept that it was a very average Bury side and points were there for the taking. Work on marking wide men would also help our cause. COYS

[Moose]

And your answer is fulwood shrimp ? Sometimes you have to hold your hand up and say the opposition is better than you,Which will be unfortunately the most part of this season.We are what we are,and once again in a relegation battle.Until things change off the pitch being a Morecambe fan is going to be tough.That was the reason for my original post.We arnt going to win every game,we arnt going to push for promotion but I think the last 3 performances suggest we are heading in the right direction.Sam Lavelle,tuitte and aj to come back will certainly help.COY Shrimps

Sometimes... sorry... pretty much every week... you have to hold your hands up and say your tactics, set up and selection were wrong. I do seem to be one of the people who only posts when we lose, not intentional... just that we lose an awful lot and nothing has changed and nothing at all is looking like changing.

[mfcbro]

Sorry Moose I think that's going to be the case for quite a while.

[Gone_Shrimping]

The worrying aspect for me is that of the 6 teams we have played so far its hard to see any of them with the possible exception of Northampton being any higher than mid-table and probably lower than that.

We still have the powerhouses like Lincoln , MK Dons , Mansfield etc to play.

As others have said we allow opposition wide players the freedom of the flanks. Cranston looked good in the friendlies but then had a 'mare against Exeter. Conlan IMHO just isn't good enough and maybe Cranston should be reinstated against Swindon.

[mfcbro]

I think that Oldham will be up there at the end of the season and we played really well against them.

[RapidShrimp]

In my opinion, our main tactical problem is simply that our players don’t look drilled.

The defence is all over the place with us hardly ever having a solid defensive line.

Both centre midfielders run forward, without one dropping deep to provide cover for the defence, so when we get counter-attacked, it is not just their forward line vs our defence, there is actually a midfielder who could win back possession (or at least slow down the attack) to allow other players to get back into their positions.

The forward line keeping swap positions really does not help us, what they should be doing instead, is always making short darting runs across each other to create pockets of space, because we have the 4 forwards who can successfully operate in tight spaces. This was seen in AJ’s goal vs Northampton.

[KenH]

The problem is fulwood shrimp is we don't have adequate training facilities.Last season we didn't train on grass from October to march.simply not good enough.I would invite any fans to go and have a look at our training facilities.Disgraceful.Its like a swimmer not been able to train in a pool.

But that is no excuse for the unfathomable team selections, substitutions, formations and "tactics" that have been seen for a few seasons now. You can look back a number of seasons to see "preferred" players always starting but being consistently poor, and players with potential never getting more than 10 mins as a substitute if they're lucky and even then out of position.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I think that Oldham will be up there at the end of the season and we played really well against them.

I agree we played well against them but our shocking defence gave them 2 goals and that leaves a mountain for the forward/attacking players to climb.

Jim was a centre half and he really should be able to organise a back line that can defend better than it has so far. Lavelle and Old playing together again should help but left back is a real problem position.
If we did try and sign Danny Grainger it is a pity it was publicised and then fell through.

[BerlinWaller]

You didn't walk into a trap berlinwaller you didn't even answer the question.I ask again where would you realistically expect us to be ?Apart from league 2 whipping boys.Sorry the question should be where do you want us to be? You talk about Sammy who by the way had a far bigger squad/budget,1st thing when jim took over was to have his budget cut.Season after season by the way.If you think we have a lot bigger budget this season I don't think so.Were you on holiday when we played well and beat Northampton ? Didn't see you post then , again you wouldn't would you.Alot of people on here only post when we get beat.Were all Morecambe fans and should stick together win or lose.

The lengths you go to protect Jim are admirable and I know that you are closer to Jim than 99% of the fans on here. I am not having a go at you for your stance on Jim and the job he is doing at the club. Just want to clear that up. as for posting after the Northampton game, I thought it best not to get involved with the we have won a game Jim is great again tit for tat. I was there. as I am every home game and I thought we played well. What annoys me is how we are told to be cock a hoop because we have won one game between numerous losses. This is what I mean about how Jim has limited our expectations and the rut we find ourselves in.

As for the Sammy comment, I wasn't on about his playing budget. I was on about the training ground situation. I think I am right in saying Sammy relocated the training to Preston and used better facilities. When Jim got the job, he made a big issue about bringing the training back to the town as he felt it was important. His choice. Going back to the budget for this season, the new owners confirmed it was a larger budget this season. I was there, I saw their mouths moving and heard the words coming out.

Jim's tactics are horrible. We get hammered down the flanks. Teams work us out in two minutes but we never react. Look at the 2nd goal on Saturday. Mills. the right back was tucked in to the corner of the 18 yard box giving their winger 10 yards. Conlan does it every week. It is a tactic, how Jim sets up. We defend with 4 CB's as the FB's tuck in so tight, We never ever stop a cross. PNE was a horror show. These are facts and visible are every week.

Look we could sit and debate the pro's and con's of Jim's management for hours and never agree. I am a Morecambe FC fan. I support the club, I would support them if we dropped to the West Lancs and played on Acre Moss. I know we are overachieving and lucky to have a club never mind League football. My own view(it will differ from yours but others agree) is that Jim is done and we will continue to suffer whilst he is in charge. It is time for change and Jim's record proves this. Sorry if that is not what you want to hear but we all don't get given coats.

[mfcbro]

So funny berlinwaller so now its down to the issue of free coats,laughable.We are bitching now.You are right about relocating training to preston.Cost ? We cant even train on the pitches behind the globe,suppose that's Jims fault as well.The problems at Morecambe go far deeper than the management team.As for the new owners,you were there,and believe everything they say ? Lets hang fire and see what they say and do.

[BerlinWaller]

So funny berlinwaller so now its down to the issue of free coats,laughable.We are bitching now.You are right about relocating training to preston.Cost ? We cant even train on the pitches behind the globe,suppose that's Jims fault as well.The problems at Morecambe go far deeper than the management team.As for the new owners,you were there,and believe everything they say ? Lets hang fire and see what they say and do.

No, it wasn't bitching at all mate don't take it that way. Just an example of your personal friendship with Jim which others on here don't have. This makes your judgement different from mine. You see it as an attack on a friend where as I see Jim as a Manager of a football club. One thing I have never done as a Morecambe fan is cross over from a fan to being emotionally tied to the club. I love the club, it's my club but I have never been involved(except for a stint as a ball boy in '95).

I have no idea how much the training in Preston cost, it's not my job as a fan to know so. We all know about the 3g pitches, old ground and no it isn't Jim's fault. I never said it was, you are putting words in my mouth there.

I do believe the new owners when they said the budget was increased. I think the evidence is there to see in the calibre of player we signed. I object to your attitude of we have only scraped the barrel in players, a tad offensive to the lads we have signed but like Jim. you seem willing to throw them under the bus to protect.

I notice you have no counter argument regarding tactics and style of play? The things that Jim is accountable for?

[mfcbro]

Not putting words in your mouth its fact.All whats been going on at our club over the last couple of years the staff and management have worked miracles to keep us in league 2.As for tactics and style of play,you can only play the cards that you are dealt.ie Kenyon centre half for 1st couple of games.Lavelle injured is a big blow.We were playing 3 centre halves with attack minded wing backs which give cover on the flanks.Tutte a big blow,Leich Smith was just starting to play well and got injured.As for calibre of players we have signed,which ones have we burst the bank to get ? As friendship with Jim are us as fans not allowed friends ? As a matter of fact my wife said would I have the same view if I wasn't friendly with Jim.I said defo because I realise the predicament we are in.That was the purpose of my post." I object to your attitude of we have only scraped the barrel in players, a tad offensive to the lads we have signed but like Jim. you seem willing to throw them under the bus to protect."Dont see anywhere in my post saying weve scraped the barrel,indeed the opposite given time I thing they will prove to be good signings.However we will have to agree to disagree thats what footballs all about opinions.