Disability and football stadia.

[thedoc]

I’m indebted to the editor of D3D4 football for posting my article about Carlisle http://d3d4football.com/rain-trains-and ... er-fitton/
onto their own fans’ website earlier today.

You can see their reaction here:

https://www.thecumbrians.net/cufc-forum ... o-carlisle

It caused such anger among their own fans that they started up a separate thread here:

https://www.thecumbrians.net/cufc-forum ... a-s#185410

This started with the response:

“Evening, seems to be snowballing after that picture appeared of the young chap getting soaked in our embarrassment of facilities.

I’m not technology minded and at the risk of sounding all talk and no action is there a appetite for a crowdfunded disabled shelter.

I’d happily donate if someone had the drive to do it.

100% this should be the club and they shouldn’t have to be embarrassed into doing it.

BUT the shame it would bring on the club that the fans have had to step in would surely set alarm bells ringing.”

If you can’t be bothered to wade through it all, let’s take just one response:

“Replied by munchymagic on topic A Trip to Carlisle
NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
munchymagic wrote: This debacle should not need pointing out to them.

None of this crap that the club has no money, these disabled folk sit in full view of the nice and cosy Jenkins and chums and he chooses to ignore what he sees whilst sitting on millions.

Each to their own but my conscience wouldn't allow it, says a lot about Jenkins for allowing this to happen and anyone trying to defend him anymore should question themselves.

Does Nixons pals at the FA know about this situation I wonder?

THEY DO NOW I'VE HAD A HUNDRED COPIES SENT TO VARIOUS FOOTBALL AND DISABILITY ORGANISATIONS AS WELL AS A NUMBER OF FAN ACTIVISM WEBSITES INCLUDING THE DISABILITY OFFICER AT THE FSF WHO I UNDERSTAND IS ALREADY ON IT.

Good for him.

Any thoughts?

[Andy D]

Our disabled facilties at our new ground are one of the things i think they did get right, look at the home end we have 2 decent size areas, plus main stand when you go into E&D section, and Posh Bar where you have a lift at reception, then leading outside onto the Balcony, aswell as Toilets, and Stewards and Staff who look out for people, better than at most grounds at our level?

[mrpotatohead]

Agreed, Andy, our disabled facilities must be some of the best in the league , as you say , they are actually a credit to the club.

[Bare bum]

I went to talk to Sam and Jordan at half time a couple of seasons ago. It was also heaving it down with rain. I went principally to offer Sam the chance to go to the loo (while I stood with Jordan) but the stewards refused me access to that part of the ground. On the basis of me being old and stubborn and my notion that the restriction was ridiculous, and bearing in mind my principle purpose, I chose to ignore the steward. While chatting to Sam I was immediately approached by a chief steward who aggressively told me I would be expelled from the ground if I didn't return to the stand - he added that I had pushed the steward to one side - (which I hadn't). I argued reasonably that the publicity surrounding my expulsion would be very damaging to CUFC and carried on talking. The police then came and told me that the steward was very keen to remove me from the ground if I didn't return immediately. Sam didn't need the loo so I complied. A horrible attitude at Carlisle and it seems it hasn't changed at all.

[thedoc]

Interesting what Bare Bum had to say: the Steward I spoke to also seemed to be suffering from a Hitler Complex and too many of their number seemed to be looking for trouble. Poor reflection on the club but probably representative of an attitude which clearly doesn't give two hoots about disabled fans either. On the positive side, though, CUFC's fans seem to be collectively embarrassed by their club. One of them sent one of the photos I took to the BBC and Radio 5 Live have picked-up on it and will be doing a piece about Disability and football grounds sometime tomorrow which will apparently feature Sam. Let's hope something changes as a result...

[P/T Indie]

Wasn't there a story about a week or two ago where someone had taken action against a club for discrimination as the disabled person had to sit in an all seater stand all by themselves. Wonder if radio 5 have been looking for similar cases.

[Andy D]

Wasn't there a story about a week or two ago where someone had taken action against a club for discrimination as the disabled person had to sit in an all seater stand all by themselves. Wonder if radio 5 have been looking for similar cases.

I think newly built stadiums should have no excuses.

But old grounds, small clubs who are skint could have a genuine excuse for having poor disabled facilities by pleading poverty.

Think its something the Sports Minister with FL should be looking at in improving, by giving out Grants to Clubs to bring Disabled Facilities up to a certain standard.

[P/T Indie]

It was a st Johnstone fan at Kilmarnock not clever enough to put a link up but it was on the BBC

[Westgate Wanderer]

I thought Football League rules would stipulate facilities for disabled in their ground certificate. At Christie Park i think the small covered Disabled stand was funded wit the help of the then supporters club. We have to conform to the rules and regulations about ground criteria and we are assessed in the same bracket as Man Utd,City etc. Perhaps it's different in Cumbria as they don't have any bigger clubs!

[Andy D]

I thought Football League rules would stipulate facilities for disabled in their ground certificate. At Christie Park i think the small covered Disabled stand was funded wit the help of the then supporters club. We have to conform to the rules and regulations about ground criteria and we are assessed in the same bracket as Man Utd,City etc. Perhaps it's different in Cumbria as they don't have any bigger clubs!

There might be but to what standard?

Cant recall Accrington Stanley having stand out disabled facilities, and just think they're in L1 now and could be in the Championship via the play offs soon.

[Posh]

Firstly, well done Roger on another really good read. And clearly they are being read because having woken up Crewe, it’s mayor and many others you’ve now done the same at Carlisle. It’s great that you’ve widened the subject matter with an honest view of the club and town visited.

Boring to keep mentioning Andy Holt at Accrington but as it is quoted by Carlisle fans in those threads here we go:

"The difference is the club belongs to the town and its fans.When I'm done here it’ll be better than when I came in and it’ll still belong to the town and its fans" Andy Holt. May 2017

There should never be an us and them mentality in small football clubs like ours, Carlisle and the other lower league clubs. However, it is evident with us and at Carlisle. While we’ve got better disabled facilities the yawning gap between the upper tier of our main stand and the inferior home end is ridiculously palpable. It’s even been acknowledged but 10 years on and not even the most simplest of improvements except a Legends Wall, paid for by fans, and a smoking area, sorted by fans.

Most Carlisle fans I’ve met are great but their club are appalling. Away fans are treated like criminals not customers. Many will remember the flags put on the open terrace that were stolen and not returned. No apology, no acknowledgement, nothing. Others will remember the fat steward at the 50 police game where “intelligence” led to overkill and he and a couple of others felt emboldened by so many police that they would try and wind up fans on the way in and out to get them ejected. So, the disability issue is no surprise to anyone from a club where the owners think they’re doing you a favour just by their presence and look at fans as a problem rather the solution, as lower than them rather than equals, and with contempt rather than as customers.

Slowly but surely people wake up and take it into their own hands because apathy or anger is no longer enough.

[Bare bum]

Radio 5s Anna Foster has just introduced the issue of poor facilities for disabled people (great) and spoke of pictures of a disabled fan under an umbrella at ............................Morecambe

[Seasider9601]

At Christie Park i think the small covered Disabled stand was funded wit the help of the then supporters club.

It certainly was and was officially opened by Clive Tyldesley.

Fund raising was initiated with a sponsored walk from Christie Park to the Giant Axe arriving in time for the pre season Lakeland Soft Drinks Cup Tie way back in July 1994

Got a newspaper clipping somewhere with a photograph showing us setting off from Christie.
Faces from the photo I remember (before I find it) were Paul and Ian Dewhurst, Paul and Roger Peacock, Lammy, Paul Morgan, Lukey and his son, Roy the window cleaner (last name escapes me sorry), the much missed Len from Thornton Lodge and myself.

[Gone_Shrimping]

At Christie Park i think the small covered Disabled stand was funded wit the help of the then supporters club.

It certainly was and was officially opened by Clive Tyldesley.

Fund raising was initiated with a sponsored walk from Christie Park to the Giant Axe arriving in time for the pre season Lakeland Soft Drinks Cup Tie way back in July 1994

Got a newspaper clipping somewhere with a photograph showing us setting off from Christie.
Faces from the photo I remember (before I find it) were Paul and Ian Dewhurst, Paul and Roger Peacock, Lammy, Paul Morgan, Lukey and his son, Roy the window cleaner (last name escapes me sorry), the much missed Len from Thornton Lodge and myself.

Roy Hankey ?

[Seasider9601]

That's the gentleman.

Embarrassed to say it escaped me.

[redrobo]

Firstly, well done Roger on another really good read. And clearly they are being read because having woken up Crewe, it’s mayor and many others you’ve now done the same at Carlisle. It’s great that you’ve widened the subject matter with an honest view of the club and town visited.

Boring to keep mentioning Andy Holt at Accrington but as it is quoted by Carlisle fans in those threads here we go:

"The difference is the club belongs to the town and its fans.When I'm done here it’ll be better than when I came in and it’ll still belong to the town and its fans" Andy Holt. May 2017

There should never be an us and them mentality in small football clubs like ours, Carlisle and the other lower league clubs. However, it is evident with us and at Carlisle. While we’ve got better disabled facilities the yawning gap between the upper tier of our main stand and the inferior home end is ridiculously palpable. It’s even been acknowledged but 10 years on and not even the most simplest of improvements except a Legends Wall, paid for by fans, and a smoking area, sorted by fans.

Most Carlisle fans I’ve met are great but their club are appalling. Away fans are treated like criminals not customers. Many will remember the flags put on the open terrace that were stolen and not returned. No apology, no acknowledgement, nothing. Others will remember the fat steward at the 50 police game where “intelligence” led to overkill and he and a couple of others felt emboldened by so many police that they would try and wind up fans on the way in and out to get them ejected. So, the disability issue is no surprise to anyone from a club where the owners think they’re doing you a favour just by their presence and look at fans as a problem rather the solution, as lower than them rather than equals, and with contempt rather than as customers.

Slowly but surely people wake up and take it into their own hands because apathy or anger is no longer enough.

Yawn.....

[Seasider9601]

Yawn.....

But very, very, VERY true ..............

[Seasider9601]

And sadly redrobo, the "Yawn" statement makes it sound like you are aware of the obvious gulf in standards between the two stands, and are not overly bothered by it or about it.

We never had a "them and us" divide at Christie Park. We were all one.

And yes, before you all jump on me, I know this has been covered until we're blue in the face but sadly some still cannot see where the problems and issues lie.

[Keith]

[b]the yawning gap

Yawn.....

No, "yawning" not "yawn". Yawning gap, as in 'huge' gap, rather than "yawn" as in 'boring'.

I'm guessing anyone who doesn't think there is a huge gap in the facilities between the 'haves' and 'have nots' is probably one of the 'haves'. Where do you sit or stand Redrobo?

I have taken photographs for the club at many venues since I became disabled. I won't comment upon the worst places as I was there as a club official of sorts, but there is one ground I will simply never visit again due to their dreadful attitude towards me as a person with a disability. However, in my experience, Carlisle were among the more helpful, offering me assistance where needed. Admittedly, when I was there (twice) it wasn't raining!

The most helpful & decent was actually Mansfield.

As a wheelchair user, I think The Globe is pretty decent for people with disabilities.

[redrobo]

The constant whinging about the The Globe is getting boring....hence Yawn....

As for where i sit or stand is irrelevant.

[Seasider9601]

The constant whinging about the The Globe is getting boring....hence Yawn....

That's just dismissing the issue though.

I know of people who sit in the PMG who even acknowledge there is a definite "us and them" feel.

Anyway, this thread is about Disabled facilities which, at The Globe Arena, are excellent.

That bit, was done correctly.

[thedoc]

Interesting responses. And thanks, Posh. Bare Bum mentioned that Sam was interviewed on Radio 5 Live this morning. If you start at about 39.50 minutes into the broadcast, you will hear what he said followed by a Chesterfield supporter talking about his own experiences as a disabled supporter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000q3c

Well done Sam - proud of you mate! Credit to the club; credit to yourself.

[Bare bum]

Yes, well done Sam. You came over really well - balanced, fair and reasonable.

[redrobo]

Yes, well done Sam. You came over really well - balanced, fair and reasonable.

Although I don't know you in person Sam, you are a credit to both yourself and to our club.

[mrpotatohead]

Yawn all you like Peter's child , but don't be surprised if you get flak for it, Posh is right , the facilities for the majority of our fans are embarrassing , the away end is also a joke, your hero Peter has done nothing about things apart from his token, walkabout , at a match several years ago with his then ,General manager, the promises about improvement have become an annual lie, followed by crap excuses.

I have always used the excellent facilities the big house with the rest of the pigs, because the alternative in the rest of "animal farm" is unappealing and contributes hugely to our lack of fans.