Hitting Rock Bottom

[Seasider9601]

It was poor on Saturday, particularly in the first half. I think we can all understand the general gloom which seems to have settled over club and supporters. It's also understandable that the gut reaction is to blame the Manager for the apparent lack of fitness of our players and for their seeming lack of motivation at times. But - however crap the performances are of late - I come back to the question I have asked myself for years: who will do a better job than Jim? How can anyone expect the players to be fully fit when they have nowhere reliably to train? This fact in itself is absolutely pathetic: even Sunday League clubs often have reliable locations at which to practice.

And what do our friends from Essex say about it all? Burble inanities about how their share in a Rugby Union club miles away from here actually directly benefits the Shrimps. How does that work? Then make muffled hints that something might actually be done about the training facilities at the Globe which have been unavailable for god knows how long. Or maybe at another rugby club somewhere (presumably) the British Isles or at least our solar system.

Maybe we should just give up now and ask Vale of Lune to take over at the Globe. No wonder Jim sounded depressed after the game: I think anybody would be with the cards he has been dealt by a succession of hopeless Chairmen during his entire tenure as the man who ultimately carries the can...

Superb post.

[BerlinWaller]

It was poor on Saturday, particularly in the first half. I think we can all understand the general gloom which seems to have settled over club and supporters. It's also understandable that the gut reaction is to blame the Manager for the apparent lack of fitness of our players and for their seeming lack of motivation at times. But - however crap the performances are of late - I come back to the question I have asked myself for years: who will do a better job than Jim? How can anyone expect the players to be fully fit when they have nowhere reliably to train? This fact in itself is absolutely pathetic: even Sunday League clubs often have reliable locations at which to practice.

And what do our friends from Essex say about it all? Burble inanities about how their share in a Rugby Union club miles away from here actually directly benefits the Shrimps. How does that work? Then make muffled hints that something might actually be done about the training facilities at the Globe which have been unavailable for god knows how long. Or maybe at another rugby club somewhere (presumably) the British Isles or at least our solar system.

Maybe we should just give up now and ask Vale of Lune to take over at the Globe. No wonder Jim sounded depressed after the game: I think anybody would be with the cards he has been dealt by a succession of hopeless Chairmen during his entire tenure as the man who ultimately carries the can...

Superb post.

Your points are valid and we all share your concerns on the ownership and the direction of the club. However, PMG, Lemos and the new boys can't be blamed for the horror shows we pay to see on the pitch. Jim is accountable for that. He signed the new contract, he knows what kind of club we are so he can't keep blaming the shortfalls within the club for the crap performances. Posh said that Jim is out of ideas and I totally agree. We need to stop with the smoke and mirrors and hold Jim accountable for the position we are in.

[Shrimpy]

who will do a better job than Jim?

This has been a long running question for a few years now but we're surely getting to the stage where we need to be asking "is it possible for anyone to do a worse job than Jim?". If the answer to that is no then we may as well pull the trigger and appoint someone else, doesn't really matter who, in the hope that a fresh face and a new manager bounce would be enough to drag us to safety come May.

[Slanester]

It was poor on Saturday, particularly in the first half. I think we can all understand the general gloom which seems to have settled over club and supporters. It's also understandable that the gut reaction is to blame the Manager for the apparent lack of fitness of our players and for their seeming lack of motivation at times. But - however crap the performances are of late - I come back to the question I have asked myself for years: who will do a better job than Jim? How can anyone expect the players to be fully fit when they have nowhere reliably to train? This fact in itself is absolutely pathetic: even Sunday League clubs often have reliable locations at which to practice.

And what do our friends from Essex say about it all? Burble inanities about how their share in a Rugby Union club miles away from here actually directly benefits the Shrimps. How does that work? Then make muffled hints that something might actually be done about the training facilities at the Globe which have been unavailable for god knows how long. Or maybe at another rugby club somewhere (presumably) the British Isles or at least our solar system.

Maybe we should just give up now and ask Vale of Lune to take over at the Globe. No wonder Jim sounded depressed after the game: I think anybody would be with the cards he has been dealt by a succession of hopeless Chairmen during his entire tenure as the man who ultimately carries the can...

Superb post.

Your points are valid and we all share your concerns on the ownership and the direction of the club. However, PMG, Lemos and the new boys can't be blamed for the horror shows we pay to see on the pitch. Jim is accountable for that. He signed the new contract, he knows what kind of club we are so he can't keep blaming the shortfalls within the club for the crap performances. Posh said that Jim is out of ideas and I totally agree. We need to stop with the smoke and mirrors and hold Jim accountable for the position we are in.

Jim can only be held as responsible( as I have said many times, not my opinion,) but accountability rests firmly with those that ultimately pull the strings, and make the biggest decisions.

[parceldave]

So who is pulling the strings especially the purse strings as Jim's requests seem to be falling on deaf ears at the moment, surely anyone in authority can see how big the injury list is and if they have the slightest intention of trying to keep our League status intact they would be acting faster than at the moment.
You only have to look at the stats on the Bentley out thread from Marky No1 to show what a precarious position we are in , YET the silence from above is deafening . If we keep on with the same lose/win/draw ratio as at present then we are surely relegated which is something none of us have or want to witness.

[Seasider9601]

So who is pulling the strings especially the purse strings as Jim's requests seem to be falling on deaf ears at the moment, surely anyone in authority can see how big the injury list is and if they have the slightest intention of trying to keep our League status intact they would be acting faster than at the moment.

Nail hit bang on head there. My sentiments exactly.

[Slanester]

So who is pulling the strings especially the purse strings as Jim's requests seem to be falling on deaf ears at the moment, surely anyone in authority can see how big the injury list is and if they have the slightest intention of trying to keep our League status intact they would be acting faster than at the moment.
You only have to look at the stats on the Bentley out thread from Marky No1 to show what a precarious position we are in , YET the silence from above is deafening . If we keep on with the same lose/win/draw ratio as at present then we are surely relegated which is something none of us have or want to witness.

Not so much the “who” pd, but what, when and why?

[thedoc]

So who is pulling the strings especially the purse strings as Jim's requests seem to be falling on deaf ears at the moment, surely anyone in authority can see how big the injury list is and if they have the slightest intention of trying to keep our League status intact they would be acting faster than at the moment... YET the silence from above is deafening .

Couldn't have put it better myself. If the bus is broken-down, getting a new driver isn't going to make it go, is it? No it isn't: particularly if half of the mechanics who could fix it are on the sick list and the management are sitting on their hands (and their wallets...) and won't hire any new ones.

[glagys]

But on the other side : e.g.
Last season Leeds were mid table bumbling along, new head coach, same players now top of the league and probs the fittest team in the league,
This season Man U bumbling along under the special one, in comes Ole, same players and win 7 in 7 is it ??
Just an observation

[Slanester]

But on the other side : e.g.
Last season Leeds were mid table bumbling along, new head coach, same players now top of the league and probs the fittest team in the league,
This season Man U bumbling along under the special one, in comes Ole, same players and win 7 in 7 is it ??
Just an observation

They are two clubs, that were examples of over spend, under achieve. On the other hand Morecambe are an example of under spend, over achieve.

[KenH]

We have the biggest squad we've had for years. Despite all the injuries, we've not had a bench full of youngsters like we did for a few games back in 2013(?). Almost every game, our bench has been full of first teamers (except Hedley who's there as a necessity as our "own" player, but he's the reserve captain so must be good).

To criticise the owners for not spending is a little unfair. It's clear Jim's player budget is more than it's been in the recent past seasons. Pretty sure Jim has been on record saying himself he has a bigger budget this year.

We've already brought in 3 players this transfer window. Did we bring in any last January transfer window - I don't think we did or was it the year before when we didn't?

Yes, injuries have impacted, but our teams put out are still pretty good quality - mostly players that Jim has gone out to target and sign and let go others to bring in. He had a pretty good clear out end of last season!

Personally, I don't think it's the player quality that's the problem. Formations and team selection continues to be erratic. We went through a period of losing but Jim kept starting with the same 11, same formation. Then we start winning and he changes it (for no apparent reason that we know about).

When something isn't working, he does a substitute at 50 minutes (i.e. Mandy last Saturday) - why didn't he do it at half time - what difference did that 5 minutes make - it just complicates and confuses by making a sub and changing formation 5 minutes in when they could have come out to start the second half in the new formation. Same with a final substitution at 90 minutes - again, changing the formation at a critical time where we keep conceding in extra time - why not do the final substitution at 80/85 so the new formation is bedded in for the critical extra time period.

On substitutions generally, why keep changing formation with every substitution - why not just like for like and leave others alone? He's being done it for years. I remember Parrish was once in 4 different positions in a single game (right back, left back, centre back and right midfield). He did it with Moly too (left back, left mid, right mid, centre mid). Last Saturday, they were all over the place. It's no wonder they don't look as if they've ever played together before - they just don't know where their team mates are!

Don't get me started on going defensive to salvage a draw. 9 defensive minded players on the pitch is a travesty, moreso when he then puts a centre back like Old (and before him it was Edwards) up front as a striker! (When did it ever work?).

Then there's his "head in his hands" feeling sorry for himself period in the final minutes when he just gives up and stops giving any direction/encouragement to the players. He's the manager, their leader, he should be up beat, positive and encouraging them to the final whistle.

Sorry, but he needs to take a long hard look at himself and stop the "little old morecambe" attitude - if he can't do that, he needs to resign (although he's just said in his Radio lancashire inteview he's going nowhere)!

[marky No.1]

Hitting Rock Bottom just about sums up that interview. A person in charge of staff, shouldn't come out all defeatist in public even if he/she feels that way, it gives no inspiration whatsoever.

He says it's hard, very hard and it will be difficult to stay in the League - we know that, but the players need to be told they can do it, it is in our own hands after all.

As you say, he's not giving up or 'walking away from the challenge, even if some say he should'

[RedRampage]

We have the biggest squad we've had for years. Despite all the injuries, we've not had a bench full of youngsters like we did for a few games back in 2013(?). Almost every game, our bench has been full of first teamers (except Hedley who's there as a necessity as our "own" player, but he's the reserve captain so must be good).

To criticise the owners for not spending is a little unfair. It's clear Jim's player budget is more than it's been in the recent past seasons. Pretty sure Jim has been on record saying himself he has a bigger budget this year.

We've already brought in 3 players this transfer window. Did we bring in any last January transfer window - I don't think we did or was it the year before when we didn't?

Yes, injuries have impacted, but our teams put out are still pretty good quality - mostly players that Jim has gone out to target and sign and let go others to bring in. He had a pretty good clear out end of last season!

Personally, I don't think it's the player quality that's the problem. Formations and team selection continues to be erratic. We went through a period of losing but Jim kept starting with the same 11, same formation. Then we start winning and he changes it (for no apparent reason that we know about).

When something isn't working, he does a substitute at 50 minutes (i.e. Mandy last Saturday) - why didn't he do it at half time - what difference did that 5 minutes make - it just complicates and confuses by making a sub and changing formation 5 minutes in when they could have come out to start the second half in the new formation. Same with a final substitution at 90 minutes - again, changing the formation at a critical time where we keep conceding in extra time - why not do the final substitution at 80/85 so the new formation is bedded in for the critical extra time period.

On substitutions generally, why keep changing formation with every substitution - why not just like for like and leave others alone? He's being done it for years. I remember Parrish was once in 4 different positions in a single game (right back, left back, centre back and right midfield). He did it with Moly too (left back, left mid, right mid, centre mid). Last Saturday, they were all over the place. It's no wonder they don't look as if they've ever played together before - they just don't know where their team mates are!

Don't get me started on going defensive to salvage a draw. 9 defensive minded players on the pitch is a travesty, moreso when he then puts a centre back like Old (and before him it was Edwards) up front as a striker! (When did it ever work?).

Then there's his "head in his hands" feeling sorry for himself period in the final minutes when he just gives up and stops giving any direction/encouragement to the players. He's the manager, their leader, he should be up beat, positive and encouraging them to the final whistle.

Sorry, but he needs to take a long hard look at himself and stop the "little old morecambe" attitude - if he can't do that, he needs to resign (although he's just said in his Radio lancashire inteview he's going nowhere)!

Great post!

[sandgrown]

We have the biggest squad we've had for years. Despite all the injuries, we've not had a bench full of youngsters like we did for a few games back in 2013(?). Almost every game, our bench has been full of first teamers (except Hedley who's there as a necessity as our "own" player, but he's the reserve captain so must be good).

To criticise the owners for not spending is a little unfair. It's clear Jim's player budget is more than it's been in the recent past seasons. Pretty sure Jim has been on record saying himself he has a bigger budget this year.

We've already brought in 3 players this transfer window. Did we bring in any last January transfer window - I don't think we did or was it the year before when we didn't?

Yes, injuries have impacted, but our teams put out are still pretty good quality - mostly players that Jim has gone out to target and sign and let go others to bring in. He had a pretty good clear out end of last season!

Personally, I don't think it's the player quality that's the problem. Formations and team selection continues to be erratic. We went through a period of losing but Jim kept starting with the same 11, same formation. Then we start winning and he changes it (for no apparent reason that we know about).

When something isn't working, he does a substitute at 50 minutes (i.e. Mandy last Saturday) - why didn't he do it at half time - what difference did that 5 minutes make - it just complicates and confuses by making a sub and changing formation 5 minutes in when they could have come out to start the second half in the new formation. Same with a final substitution at 90 minutes - again, changing the formation at a critical time where we keep conceding in extra time - why not do the final substitution at 80/85 so the new formation is bedded in for the critical extra time period.

On substitutions generally, why keep changing formation with every substitution - why not just like for like and leave others alone? He's being done it for years. I remember Parrish was once in 4 different positions in a single game (right back, left back, centre back and right midfield). He did it with Moly too (left back, left mid, right mid, centre mid). Last Saturday, they were all over the place. It's no wonder they don't look as if they've ever played together before - they just don't know where their team mates are!

Don't get me started on going defensive to salvage a draw. 9 defensive minded players on the pitch is a travesty, moreso when he then puts a centre back like Old (and before him it was Edwards) up front as a striker! (When did it ever work?).

Then there's his "head in his hands" feeling sorry for himself period in the final minutes when he just gives up and stops giving any direction/encouragement to the players. He's the manager, their leader, he should be up beat, positive and encouraging them to the final whistle.

Sorry, but he needs to take a long hard look at himself and stop the "little old morecambe" attitude - if he can't do that, he needs to resign (although he's just said in his Radio lancashire inteview he's going nowhere)!

Fantastic post KenH, you've nailed all JB's failings

[BoroRedShrimp]

We have the biggest squad we've had for years. Despite all the injuries, we've not had a bench full of youngsters like we did for a few games back in 2013(?). Almost every game, our bench has been full of first teamers (except Hedley who's there as a necessity as our "own" player, but he's the reserve captain so must be good).

To criticise the owners for not spending is a little unfair. It's clear Jim's player budget is more than it's been in the recent past seasons. Pretty sure Jim has been on record saying himself he has a bigger budget this year.

We've already brought in 3 players this transfer window. Did we bring in any last January transfer window - I don't think we did or was it the year before when we didn't?

Yes, injuries have impacted, but our teams put out are still pretty good quality - mostly players that Jim has gone out to target and sign and let go others to bring in. He had a pretty good clear out end of last season!

Personally, I don't think it's the player quality that's the problem. Formations and team selection continues to be erratic. We went through a period of losing but Jim kept starting with the same 11, same formation. Then we start winning and he changes it (for no apparent reason that we know about).

When something isn't working, he does a substitute at 50 minutes (i.e. Mandy last Saturday) - why didn't he do it at half time - what difference did that 5 minutes make - it just complicates and confuses by making a sub and changing formation 5 minutes in when they could have come out to start the second half in the new formation. Same with a final substitution at 90 minutes - again, changing the formation at a critical time where we keep conceding in extra time - why not do the final substitution at 80/85 so the new formation is bedded in for the critical extra time period.

On substitutions generally, why keep changing formation with every substitution - why not just like for like and leave others alone? He's being done it for years. I remember Parrish was once in 4 different positions in a single game (right back, left back, centre back and right midfield). He did it with Moly too (left back, left mid, right mid, centre mid). Last Saturday, they were all over the place. It's no wonder they don't look as if they've ever played together before - they just don't know where their team mates are!

Don't get me started on going defensive to salvage a draw. 9 defensive minded players on the pitch is a travesty, moreso when he then puts a centre back like Old (and before him it was Edwards) up front as a striker! (When did it ever work?).

Then there's his "head in his hands" feeling sorry for himself period in the final minutes when he just gives up and stops giving any direction/encouragement to the players. He's the manager, their leader, he should be up beat, positive and encouraging them to the final whistle.

Sorry, but he needs to take a long hard look at himself and stop the "little old morecambe" attitude - if he can't do that, he needs to resign (although he's just said in his Radio lancashire inteview he's going nowhere)!

Fantastic post KenH, you've nailed all JB's failings

Fantastic post agree with you & Sandgrown. Shame a few on facebook can't see this.

[Posh]

A good post Ken and there’s a lot of fair criticism in there. For me the defeatist negative interviews are the worst bit. Shit happens, but don’t dwell, just get on with it positively.

However, I’ve been specifically told by two people who should know that the playing budget is exactly the same as last season. While we’ve brought in three new players, we’ve let four go, including one for a fee. He is clearly balancing the books. While it doesn’t detract from most of your comments it isn’t accurate to say he’s got more money. Kieran Maguire, the football finance expert says our average wage is under £1,000 a week and we’re the only club in League 2 to do so that he’s aware of.

[marky No.1]

It was Jim himself earlier in the season that said he had a 'bit more'

[redrobo]

....and it was JB who said we'd agreed a fee for a striker but no explanation as to what went wrong. Did he decide to go elsewhere....

Rumour had it that it was Chris Dagnell but I understand that Wrexham then came in but to date he's still with Bury.

For me our priority is in midfield. Yes without doubt we've missed Fleming and thankfully Cranston has proved a more than an able deputy BUT on Saturday he was stuck out on the wing where for me he isn't effective especially as like others his crossing is poor. So an additional midfield, creative player is a priority alongside a player like Yard Dog Grimshaw who we haven't replaced all those seasons ago. As much as I like Tutt his fitness is an issue and at times I wonder about his commitment as his body language appears to be questionable.

Also can't see any reason why JB doesn't bring back Thommo. At least he's a wing man that could supply the crosses for our striker.

ATTACK the best form of DEFENCE....

[Gone_Shrimping]

To have a chance of safety we need at least 7 wins from our 17 matches remaining. A huge ask if Jim is in defensive mode but not impossible if we went out and played positively. I fear he won't change and attempt to grind out results with "game management" !

[KenH]

Perhaps Jim should be the one up in the box watching the game and leave Ken on the sidelines giving directions. Sometimes, I really wonder whether Jim really knows what's going on during the game due to a poor view (yes I know all managers have the same view, but I', clutching at straws!). More importantly with not really having a proper captain on the pitch who Jim can rely on, directions from the sidelines need to be more accurate/relevant.

[Shrimpy]

....and it was JB who said we'd agreed a fee for a striker but no explanation as to what went wrong. Did he decide to go elsewhere....

I would have thought that this was Bennett? Deal agreed but then Sheridan decided he was leaving which was the hold up. As soon as they appointed their new manager and he was ok with Bennett leaving that's when we made the signing.

[Dirk]

Sorry, but he needs to take a long hard look at himself and stop the "little old morecambe" attitude - if he can't do that, he needs to resign (although he's just said in his Radio lancashire inteview he's going nowhere)!

Poor track record. There'll be no other takers after MFC. There's loads of good managers out of work who have far better win ratios. In the circumstances, you can understand his attitude. He won't walk away from his last decent pay-packet. What else is on the cards? Driving for Uber? Who gives a damn about relegation? The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. Needs must.

[Freez]

That’s your opinion, maybe he stays because he is loyal and wants to see the job through??
Just a thought.
And the budget was supposedly up by 15% according to our new owners, quoted in the Visitor.
However, talk to the other directors, there has been no increase on last season, despite this claim.
It’s a shit show.

[HALMA 1983]

That’s your opinion, maybe he stays because he is loyal and wants to see the job through??
Just a thought.
And the budget was supposedly up by 15% according to our new owners, quoted in the Visitor.
However, talk to the other directors, there has been no increase on last season, despite this claim.
It’s a shit show.

I bet Jim wishes this was all a bad dream at times, the guy has performed miracles year after year with the shit cards he's been dealt and has yet to be found wanting.
Many a lesser man would have crumbled and fell by the wayside, his loyalty and commitment to the cause are beyond comprehension and I truly hope that we can find a manager with the same integrity at Oldham but I won't hold my breath

[marky No.1]

So where has this 15% gone then, Freez?

'Driving for Uber' , should that not be in the 'taxi for Bentley' thread?