O/T We'll fight them on the prom

[North Stand Shrimp]

Marky from the "Toon" states

Morecambe NEEDS to attract the kind of young professionals who will spend money in the town.

Young professionals reside in places were there is top quality and well paid employment.To find that in Lancaster & Morecambe most workers do that by commuting to Preston and Manchester. There are very few such opportunities in the district like that (unlike Manchester, Liverpool and the Toon). Check out the advertised jobs in the local press for proof.

I bet if you look in most local rags the jobs aren't brill at the moment! I don't know if you noticed but we are in uncertain times at the moment.
I am a young professional and would love one of these new apartments. I also think that if a community of young proffesionals moved into that area then Businesses would relocate too. it would all take time but in the mean time a comute to Lnacaster, Preston or Manchester is still viable with the train station not being far.

The market for these properties is going to be as a second home, retirement flat or an investment.

Are you Kirsty or Phil? if not then I don't believe your qualified to make that assumtion

[Phoenix]

Young professionals reside in places were there is top quality and well paid employment.To find that in Lancaster & Morecambe most workers do that by commuting to Preston and Manchester. There are very few such opportunities in the district like that (unlike Manchester, Liverpool and the Toon). Check out the advertised jobs in the local press for proof.

Take those damned blinkers off. I live in Morecambe, work in Lancaster and I'm in the minority in my office of 30. People travel to work here every day from around the north west, I think the furthest away are Penrith and Burnley.

Young professionals reside where it's pleasant to live and commute to work. Fact is one person I work with spends less time on the train from Preston than I do sat in the car on Carlisle bridge.

Manchester, Preston, Carlisle and Liverpool are well within commuting distance of Morecambe by train and by car if they could get to the motorway quickly. Please don't start the distance argument about the bypass going to the northern junction, anyone driving to that junction now is already going 2 miles further than they need to if they're heading south and no one's complained in all the years it's been open.

I think by now Truth's official objection to the council will be online (if it's been sent), time for a bit of light reading tonight. I'm sure it won't be hard to find.

[Keith]

Marky from the "Toon" states

Morecambe NEEDS to attract the kind of young professionals who will spend money in the town.

Young professionals reside in places were there is top quality and well paid employment.To find that in Lancaster & Morecambe most workers do that by commuting to Preston and Manchester. There are very few such opportunities in the district like that (unlike Manchester, Liverpool and the Toon). Check out the advertised jobs in the local press for proof.

Creating 533 residential box units will not create top quality and well paid employment to entice young professionals to come to Morecambe.

The market for these properties is going to be as a second home, retirement flat or an investment.

why aren't there oportunities that provide well paid employment? Could it be because it is such a nightmare to get in and out of? Perhaps someone could build a road so people coming in to the area could bypass the bottle necks? They could even call it something catchy like... ohh, err... 'a bypass'!!! Did you notice that Peel Holdings took out a full page advert in the Visitor encouraging the building of the bypass? Peel Holdings want the bypass? Why would that be? Why would the owners of the Trafford Centre and John Lennon Airport be interested in the bypass? Could it be that the owners of Liverpool Dock and the Manchester Ship Canal would like to see increased development around Heysham Port?

Decent road network M6 to Heysham Port, area of land zoned for industry in Heysham, sea access, decent housing... Do you see how this all starts to come together? Do you see how the whole area could be developed? Can you spot the potential for Morecambe to become a fantastic place to live?

Is it possible, from the view from the Winter Gardens restaurant, to see a bit further than the buckets and spades on the beach?

[maggy]

Just re read what was published in the visitor to start this thread.
Evelyn Archer did not say she was for or against the development, i think most of you have had a gripe about this because she is a Morecambe bay councillor?

Evelyn Archer thinks the proposals would ruin what she calls "the most sacred piece of land we have in Morecambe".
Her main concerns - similar to those expressed by Wayne in The Visitor two weeks ago - are the number and the height of the proposed buildings on the former Harbour Band Arena and Bubbles site.
Evelyn said the flats - at least one of which is seven storeys high - would block the views across the Bay and said the entire development was "too high and too dense".
Evelyn will be in the Arndale Centre on Monday, July 7 to canvass public opinion on the proposed development
at the end of the day it is on her ward so what is wrong with canvassing public opinion in the arndale on her own ward.

[Christies Child]

Evelyn will be in the Arndale Centre on Monday, July 7 to canvass public opinion on the proposed development[/quote]

July 7.....

Next year?

[maggy]

quote what was in the press
july 7

[campdave]

Evelyn will be in the Arndale Centre on Monday, July 7 to canvass public opinion on the proposed development
at the end of the day it is on her ward so what is wrong with canvassing public opinion in the arndale on her own ward.

Except it's faitly obvious from Phoenix's experience that while she may be "canvassing opinion", the only "opinions" she is passing to the council are those objecting.

Far from representitive.

[maggy]

but has she handed them in yet she may have both for and against i did not go into the arndale so i dont know.

[marky]

If you read Brian's many posts on this issue, he made it quite clear what said councillor told him. To summarise, she said she wouldn't be forwarding his positive views on the subject to the council. He was there, see.

[maggy]

but was she not waiting for him as she had read all his post,

[Keith]

Evelyn will be in the Arndale Centre on Monday, July 7 to canvass public opinion on the proposed development
at the end of the day it is on her ward so what is wrong with canvassing public opinion in the arndale on her own ward.

So just to clarify Maggy, was Evelyn "canvassing" public opinion, which means she was trying to guage the majority view which she would then represent or was she "campaigning" for objections, refusing to represent motions of support? Brian appears to be suggesting that she was campaigning and refusing to take note of people who support the development.

I would suggest it is very reasonable to canvass opinion of the electorate on an important issue like this. By canvassing opinion she can truly represent those voters.

Spoil the view 'from where' I wonder? Is Evelyn concerned that the view from the Hitchens store room will be ruined? Because the view from street level is pretty poor already, unless you are on the sea-ward side which will still be majestic. I guess the view from above Coopers Amusement arcade may be restricted but I've never been up there and would guess that close to 100% of the people reading this message board haven't either. So this 'spoilt view' that she's canvassing about, could it, possibly be the view from a restaurant that isn't open, in a building that isn't open?

And, returning like a broken record, if there isn't to be a development of this type, what exactly do you, Truth & Evelyn suggest instead to revitalise the town? It can't be that difficult surely? If you want to stop this kind of development you must have something else in mind surely?

Oh, and how long did it take to build the Winter Gardens compared to the length of time it's taken to fix them?

I have no gripe about Evelyn being a Morecambe Bay Councillor, quite the opposite, I would always be glad that there are people who are willing to stand up and be elected. But once you are elected, you have to listen to people rather than doggedly pursue only one agenda. And if you ARE going to pursue that one agenda, it helps if it's delivered before trying to knock back other projects.

[maggy]

i am only quoting what was in the press,
She may be chairperson to the winter gardens ,or a ward councillor doing what her electorate wanted her to

[Phoenix]

Maggy, horses mouth time. It wasn't July 7 as you mention, no local morecambe paper is published on a Monday. To quote from the front page of the Visitor, July 2 2008.

A leading resort activist has said plans for redeveloping the Morecambe's central promenade would ruin "the most sacred piece of land" in the resort

block the views across Morecambe Bay

Finally, Evelyn would be in the Arndale on Monday to canvass opinion. My first point was if my own ward councillor wants to canvass opinion, Monday in the Arndale isn't the best place to go. Most definitely it doesn't give me, a poulton ward resident, chance to air my views.

So Evelyn extends it to the saturday and yes, she was waiting for me. I can't repeat most of what I said to my partner when I had finished with Evelyn. For the record, Evelyn's stall in the Arndale consisted of a poor A4 copy of an aerial plan view with the Winter Gardens drawn on in red felt pen. The stall also contained a few stacks of letters, every single one containing "I Object". Most of what happened and said is well documented if you read the early part of this thread but Evelyn Archer did not have any means by which I could record my vote of support. Evelyn Archer said she would put the view of the majority forward. I challenge Evelyn Archer to prove what the majority view is. I question how the majority can be proved if there was no means to record I Support comments.

Evelyn is not in print saying she will object however she said she was "against the development" to my face and she only offered I Object letters to anyone passing the stall. Make your own mind up on that one.

She may be chairperson to the winter gardens ,or a ward councillor doing what her electorate wanted her to

To sum up. Evelyn made no note of anyone's details on the stall, either for or against. All she did was encourage people to send in the I Object letters - I wasn't stupid enough to walk straight up to her, I had a coffee in the middle of the Arndale and watched for a while. No notes taken whatsoever. Yet again Evelyn, prove your majority view, either way.

At no time did Evelyn ask what ward I belonged to. She didn't even know if I was one of her electorate, or not.

And that's all fact, whether you like it or not.

I have no gripe about Evelyn being a Morecambe Bay Councillor, quite the opposite, I would always be glad that there are people who are willing to stand up and be elected. But once you are elected, you have to listen to people rather than doggedly pursue only one agenda. And if you ARE going to pursue that one agenda, it helps if it's delivered before trying to knock back other projects.

Me neither but Evelyn's situation goes beyond normal council duties with her regeneration position on the council. She is responsible for leading the town forward, FFS.

[maggy]

quote
Evelyn will be in the Arndale Centre on Monday, July 7 to canvass public opinion on the proposed development.
thats what was published in the visitor 2 july2008

[Phoenix]

Maggy, I fail to see why you are being so picky about what has been said in the press. However I am willing to play along to see where you take this.

The Citizen, July 9 2008

Cllr Archer set up a stall in the resort's Arndale Centre on Monday to present details of the plan to shoppers and canvass opinion - but had so much interest she now plans to run the stall all this week.

Is that better?

I'll take the liberty of re-printing some actual quotes from Evelyn Archer;

There is no one more determined to see the regeneration of Morecambe than I am, but this is not regeneration. It goes further than that - it is redevelopment

The present plan is for buildings that are five storeys high right on the seafront and trhe second phase goes even higher. It's quite simply too much

The best actual quote is

We do not need this many new apaertments - and quite frankly we hae not got the infrastructure to support them anyway

Damned right we haven't, Evelyn Archer voted against the bypass.

Apologiers for any typos, trying to concentrate and not spill curry on the laptop.

[maggy]

...nobody is playing games
It is a open forum my opinions should be welcomed.
And I agree with a lot of what she said in the citizen, it is too much on the housing side and not enough on leisure.

[Keith]

the problem is, neither Maggy or Truth are answering the basic point, if not this, then what can be done instead?

People don't want 'leisure', they want housing. Broad generalisation yes, but having a swimming pool that no one will use (for example) results in added expense, then decay. It doesn't bring money in to the town either. And even if it is a successful business, it is still a relatively small turn over. How many people visit the Bowling Alley for example? I've been in there twice in the last couple of years. Last time was a Saturday night and it was busy, the time before that though, was a Sunday afternoon and I was the only person bowling. I don't know if they are doing well but I think they'll be struggling on a few hours of bar & bowl money one or two nights per week.

Almost any 'entertainment' fits the business model that I mentioned regarding the marina comment. It will bring in a minimal amount of money and not regenerate the town.

THAT GOES FOR THE MIDLAND HOTEL TOO!!!

The Midland was a 'way in', the housing is the real deal. THEN the town will naturally develop a service industry that caters to locals and visitors alike and that will include entertainment.

[Posh]

BTW Why did the Council Director of Regeneration, John Donnellon resign from his position and leave in December 2007.

Firstly the offer of a better paid job. And also the opportunity to work in an authority where opposition didn't exist to every plan put forward. John was a council officer who understood Morecambe's needs but couldn't get deliver because of the naysayers.

The MBI are also in danger of pissing other investors off too. The planning decisions on the new Morecambe FC stadium have been put back now to September because of constant deferments by MBI councillors. I think if it was to be put back again serious questions will need to be raised about the motives behind it.

[Posh]

It stinks of a jobs for the boys set up.

Oh the irony. Too many examples to mention of local politicians over-ruling council officers recommendations so their friends and family can benefit.

[Mark S]

When are the next elections?

[maggy]

The reason the football club was deferred, was lack of information from the officers and the football club. Cabinet came to a decision it was the officers and the football club that did not follow all the requirement and at least this cabinet have a backbone and don’t jump if all the information is not in front of them.
The morecambe bay independents voted for the football club.

[maggy]

BTW Why did the Council Director of Regeneration, John Donnellon resign from his position and leave in December 2007.

Firstly the offer of a better paid job. And also the opportunity to work in an authority where opposition didn't exist to every plan put forward. John was a council officer who understood Morecambe's needs but couldn't get deliver because of the naysayers.

The MBI are also in danger of pissing other investors off too. The planning decisions on the new Morecambe FC stadium have been put back now to September because of constant deferments by MBI councillors. I think if it was to be put back again serious questions will need to be raised about the motives behind it.

So are you saying John Donnellon went because of the Morecambe bay independents

[Phoenix]

...nobody is playing games
It is a open forum my opinions should be welcomed.

Questions, of which you have asked many, aren't opinions. I have done my best to bring together answers to all your questions you put this afternoon, most of which were already in this thread if you'd bothered to read them. Only in your latest message have you actually expressed an opinion and no one has attacked it.

[Phoenix]

The independents voted for the football club.

As already asked, please do not be so ambiguous when referring to Independents and clarify whether you mean real Independents or the Morecambe Bay Independents. Two completely different things and one which should be made clear when discussing a specific group of people.

[Phoenix]

The MBI are also in danger of pissing other investors off too. The planning decisions on the new Morecambe FC stadium have been put back now to September because of constant deferments by MBI councillors. I think if it was to be put back again serious questions will need to be raised about the motives behind it.

While this is a football forum, it's unofficial. No club official or employee has any control over the running of it or it's content which is entirely attributable to the individual author. It just happens to be Morecambe's most popular forum, football or otherwise.

Any negative attitudes towards the club from councillors and/or council officials based on the content of this thread are entirely un-justified and un-reasonable.

Message not aimed at Posh but at anyone thinking otherwise. Posh just put the thought in my mind.