Ukrainian National Anthem.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

hmmm maybe we should keep politics out if Football.

two sides to a story.

if i was an ordinary Russian i wouldn't people next door to me potentially pointing Nuclear Missiles at me? (Cuban Missile crisis anyone) ?

and also if i was an ordinary Russian would be thinking who the hell do the Yanks think they are to tell us about throwing our military weight about?

also story's about Russians living in the Ukraine being discriminated against?

also Politically the Ukraine have had corruption problems and use hitmen to take out political enemy's, just like Russia?

Andy, just to clear up an apparent misunderstanding in your post, Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994 in an agreement whereby NATO promised to come to their defence if they were ever threatened with invasion.

Also, in terms of the Russian people, there are mass protests throughout Russia against Putin's actions, so they would not appear to be in favour on this war.

Dear Andy D whoever you are? I'm watching the news day after day now with tears welling up in my eyes. I also watch RT TV but can't stand much of the blatant lies and propaganda from the Russian regime. Not sure how you can add support to the brutal Russian regime which is committing war crimes as we speak. Thermobaric missiles fired indiscriminately (effectively mini nuclear missiles), families massacred, residential areas cluster bombed. Anyone who has seen my historic posts will know that sometimes I wear my heart on my sleeve and therefore I can't let your support for the gangster Putin go unanswered.
[Edit: Keith]
I have no affiliations to the Ukraine I am just a decent UK 'Sandgrown' citizen who is appalled by Putin and his henchmen and what amounts to mass murder! Keith you appear to be the only active moderator on this forum so please ban me immediately if you feel I have gone OTT! My support for the club will never diminish but my support of this forum which I love may end this evening!

UTS.

[Keith]

Keith you appear to be the only active moderator on this forum so please ban me immediately if you feel I have gone OTT! My support for the club will never diminish but my support of this forum which I love may end this evening!

UTS.

I won't ban, but would ask that you avoid swearing. This is obviously, and understandably, an emotive subject.

[Andy D]

Dear Andy D whoever you are? I'm watching the news day after day now with tears welling up in my eyes. I also watch RT TV but can't stand much of the blatant lies and propaganda from the Russian regime. Not sure how you can add support to the brutal Russian regime which is committing war crimes as we speak. Thermobaric missiles fired indiscriminately (effectively mini nuclear missiles), families massacred, residential areas cluster bombed. Anyone who has seen my historic posts will know that sometimes I wear my heart on my sleeve and therefore I can't let your support for the gangster Putin go unanswered.
[Edit: Keith]
I have no affiliations to the Ukraine I am just a decent UK 'Sandgrown' citizen who is appalled by Putin and his henchmen and what amounts to mass murder! Keith you appear to be the only active moderator on this forum so please ban me immediately if you feel I have gone OTT! My support for the club will never diminish but my support of this forum which I love may end this evening!

Propaganda?? thats exactly why i don't just watch the likes of the BBC and watch both(like Al Jazeera when there’s trouble in the middle east) searching information, its just like two people having a row i wont take sides unless i know the facts.

also this thread was started days ago before things escalated with Russia already accountable for war crimes going by film footage by civilians being bombed.


I don't know who you are and couldn't care if you stood at 6.6ft, hiding behind a user name online swearing and insulting somebody for having a different perception, i’ m not hard to find and normally on my own match day.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

On your own. Why does that not surprise me with an attitude like yours? You accuse me of hiding behind a user name LOL. There are a few on here who may know me from over the years and they would confirm that I have never hid from anybody or anything. If you would like to know my name and where to find me at the next game then PM me. I would love to meet your challenge face to face and give you a few home truths. Long live Ukraine I hope they smash the Russian scum.

I will also add that I will be at Bolton on the 8th March prior to the next home game. If you are that eager to know my identity and speak with me I would be happy to get it done there! Just PM me pal and it’s as good as done.

[halfwayprawn]

Another view on the ongoing troubles between Ukraine and Russia by the Aussie Cossack who's being interviewed by Zeee Media on Youtube.

[marky No.1]

On your own. Why does that not surprise me with an attitude like yours? You accuse me of hiding behind a user name LOL. There are a few on here who may know me from over the years and they would confirm that I have never hid from anybody or anything. If you would like to know my name and where to find me at the next game then PM me. I would love to meet your challenge face to face and give you a few home truths. Long live Ukraine I hope they smash the Russian scum.

I will also add that I will be at Bolton on the 8th March prior to the next home game. If you are that eager to know my identity and speak with me I would be happy to get it done there! Just PM me pal and it’s as good as done.

Andy is not a bad guy, Phoenix, I'm sure you will get on face to face

[Keith]

I don't know who you are and couldn't care if you stood at 6.6ft, hiding behind a user name online swearing and insulting somebody for having a different perception, i’ m not hard to find and normally on my own match day.

On your own. Why does that not surprise me with an attitude like yours? You accuse me of hiding behind a user name LOL. There are a few on here who may know me from over the years and they would confirm that I have never hid from anybody or anything. If you would like to know my name and where to find me at the next game then PM me. I would love to meet your challenge face to face and give you a few home truths.

Come on fellas, keep it civil or you'll both be on the naughty step. I don't want to start banning people, nor do I want to lock the thread, although it is now moving 'O/T'.

[Sakhalin Shrimp]

Really don’t want to be reading any pro Russian rhetoric on this site, I had enough of the drivel on their TV when I worked over there.
Please stop making excuses for Russia invading a sovereign country, targeting civilians, latest reports are over 2000 civilians killed so far plus almost 1 million displaced.

Anyone who is spouting anything pro Russian at the moment needs to take a long hard look of themselves and also maybe take a sabatical from posting.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

On your own. Why does that not surprise me with an attitude like yours? You accuse me of hiding behind a user name LOL. There are a few on here who may know me from over the years and they would confirm that I have never hid from anybody or anything. If you would like to know my name and where to find me at the next game then PM me. I would love to meet your challenge face to face and give you a few home truths. Long live Ukraine I hope they smash the Russian scum.

I will also add that I will be at Bolton on the 8th March prior to the next home game. If you are that eager to know my identity and speak with me I would be happy to get it done there! Just PM me pal and it’s as good as done.

Andy is not a bad guy, Phoenix, I'm sure you will get on face to face

OK Marky lets just call him 'misguided' with some of his views and comments. I'm open minded but I really can't understand any right minded person uttering anything which could be conceived as support for, or understanding of a Russian regime which is undemocratic, brutal and has absolutely no respect for human rights and that includes how they deal with their own populace. His redeeming feature is he's a Morecambe fan and for me that gets him many brownie points. I probably would like him...... as long as he kept his thoughts about sympathy for Putin and his people to himself.

UTS.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

Really don’t want to be reading any pro Russian rhetoric on this site, I had enough of the drivel on their TV when I worked over there.
Please stop making excuses for Russia invading a sovereign country, targeting civilians, latest reports are over 2000 civilians killed so far plus almost 1 million displaced.

Anyone who is spouting anything pro Russian at the moment needs to take a long hard look of themselves and also maybe take a sabatical from posting.

Thankyou Sak!! I was hoping I would get some form of moral support and you have provided it. At the end of the day this is a football forum and we should probably try and keep politics out of it, but this is such a massive issue threatening the whole of Europe and possibly the planet, that it's being discussed everywhere and it's not easy to keep politics out of sport in this particular instance.

In a nutshell anything we can throw at the Putin regime may help. I'm watching the news nowadays with my mouth open with shock and horror at what's developing in the Ukraine. You have to wonder at their trapped citizens who can be seen preparing 'Molotov Cocktails' in the vain hope that they will help their cause. In my previous life I've been trained to combat petrol bombs. Simples as long as your clothing is fire resistant and someone in the vicinity has a fire extinguisher in case of a direct hit, then they really are not a problem. They look spectacular but will have no effect against the military might of a well trained and equipped Russian Army who will stand back and laugh....I kid you not. In fact anyone trying to throw one will probably be gunned down before they can release it. Against that the Russians have Thermobaric Missiles, Cluster Bombs and a whole range of advanced weapons of mass destruction.

Anyway rant over. I could literally go on and on about Putins barbaric regime but I optimistically hope that sanctions and punitive measures against his regime will bring him down before he can inflict too much damage against the citizens of Eastern Europe.

[Posh]

Some of the pomposity on here about the war is hilarious. Threatening other Morecambe fans because they take an alternative view is embarrassing. Where were you when the Russians destroyed the Syrian city of Aleppo, for example?

No we shouldn’t play the Ukrainian national anthem at a home game, because it would be gesture politics of the worst kind. If you’re that bothered about the war then do something practical.

- There are collections of clothing and toys across the council area for Ukrainian refugees in Poland. Donate something.

- The City Council have a meeting tonight (Thursday) to co-ordinate a meaningful community response to the situation https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/bringing ... 8567462047. Get yourself along.

- Stop voting Conservative. Over £13 million in donations from Russians to the Tories; a Tier 1 Visa system that enabled Russians ultra rapid back door British nationality for as little as £80k; sold access to government ministers for tiny sums to the likes of Putin’s judo instructor and the wife of Putin’s former Finance Minister; blocked the Russia Report because it revealed how we’ve sold this country down the river to oligarchs who stole from their own people and now do Putin’s bidding; and lastly allowed these billionaires to use tax havens to buy up vast swathes of London property that only harms ordinary Londoners (they call London the Laundry in Moscow) and use our legal system, even non-Russians, to pump millions at lawyers to wipe out opposition to their actions.

The Tories have supported dirty Russian money to corrupt this country and is a part of why we are where we are. Stop voting for this trash that values corrupt billionaire as more important than ordinary Britains, Ukrainians and Syrians.

Lastly, all the above happened AFTER the illegal invasion of Crimea and the proxy war in Luhansk and the Donbass. You voted for the Tories, you accepted one illegal invasion of the Ukraine.

- Read more so we can be better aware of what lies behind all this so we can avoid WW3. Most American strategists have predicted this conflict for a long time (as early as 1998), so why have we done nothing about it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/statu ... 62592?s=21

I’m utterly appalled by what the Russians are doing in the Ukraine and we need to do everything we can other than provoke WW3 to hit Putin politically and economically.

But let’s bear in mind that Putin claims he’s gone into the Ukraine to protect Russian interests and bring about regime change. Anyone care to tell me how this is any different to what we did in Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, over 20 million refugees, famine, corruption and destabilisation that has come to our door in terrorism and an asylum crisis.

Organise, raise funds, do things but spare me the hypocrisy and gesture politics.

[Posh]

P.S. Morecambe’s MP, David Morris chose not to fund his office from the donations of his constituents but instead decided to do it with a £10,000 donation from Russian oligarch Alexander Temerko, who has spent the last decade buying MPs and the Tories to allow his company to build an ‘interconnector’ from France to the UK to bring electricity produced from Russian gas to our shores.

[Phoenix Shrimp 2017]

Some of the pomposity on here about the war is hilarious. Threatening other Morecambe fans because they take an alternative view is embarrassing. Where were you when the Russians destroyed the Syrian city of Aleppo, for example?

No we shouldn’t play the Ukrainian national anthem at a home game, because it would be gesture politics of the worst kind. If you’re that bothered about the war then do something practical.

- There are collections of clothing and toys across the council area for Ukrainian refugees in Poland. Donate something.

- The City Council have a meeting tonight (Thursday) to co-ordinate a meaningful community response to the situation https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/bringing ... 8567462047. Get yourself along.

- Stop voting Conservative. Over £13 million in donations from Russians to the Tories; a Tier 1 Visa system that enabled Russians ultra rapid back door British nationality for as little as £80k; sold access to government ministers for tiny sums to the likes of Putin’s judo instructor and the wife of Putin’s former Finance Minister; blocked the Russia Report because it revealed how we’ve sold this country down the river to oligarchs who stole from their own people and now do Putin’s bidding; and lastly allowed these billionaires to use tax havens to buy up vast swathes of London property that only harms ordinary Londoners (they call London the Laundry in Moscow) and use our legal system, even non-Russians, to pump millions at lawyers to wipe out opposition to their actions.

The Tories have supported dirty Russian money to corrupt this country and is a part of why we are where we are. Stop voting for this trash that values corrupt billionaire as more important than ordinary Britains, Ukrainians and Syrians.

Lastly, all the above happened AFTER the illegal invasion of Crimea and the proxy war in Luhansk and the Donbass. You voted for the Tories, you accepted one illegal invasion of the Ukraine.

- Read more so we can be better aware of what lies behind all this so we can avoid WW3. Most American strategists have predicted this conflict for a long time (as early as 1998), so why have we done nothing about it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/statu ... 62592?s=21

I’m utterly appalled by what the Russians are doing in the Ukraine and we need to do everything we can other than provoke WW3 to hit Putin politically and economically.

But let’s bear in mind that Putin claims he’s gone into the Ukraine to protect Russian interests and bring about regime change. Anyone care to tell me how this is any different to what we did in Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, over 20 million refugees, famine, corruption and destabilisation that has come to our door in terrorism and an asylum crisis.

Organise, raise funds, do things but spare me the hypocrisy and gesture politics.

First of all I apologise if my comments came across as a threat to Andy d. I must admit I was very angry when I was posting and had probably had a drink too many immediately prior. This is never a good idea! I'd recently watched a Russian tank veer across a road and crush a saloon car containing an old guy and I flipped and used bad language on here, for which I have since apologised. I think it escalated when he quite rightly responded to my initial comments directed at him. However rightly or wrongly I took his comments of response as an implied threat to me and I subsequently responded in an inappropriate way! Childish really but as previously mentioned this is a really emotive subject and being an emotional type of person I sometimes engage mouth before brain.

In respect of Middle Eastern wars I have watched it all unfold since the days when Blair and the Americans decided to invade Iraq on the flawed pretext that Saddam was constructing weapons of mass destruction. I must admit that like many I was 'suckered in' and thought that the invasion was for the general good and stability of that part of the World. Events proved that the allies 'flawed intelligence' or more likely a tissue of lies to support their own agenda was to unleash years of instability and barbarity in the whole region. In defence of the allies I don't think Iraq's invasion of Kuwait helped their situation and contributed massively towards their decision to unleash the sadly named 'Shock and Awe' campaign. At the end of the day many of these wars are about money and who controls the diminishing oil reserves! Unfortunately we witnessed the aftermath which was in general extremist such as ISIS and many others seizing the opportunity for insurrection and the subsequent wars which broke out in Syria and Libya and across the region.

Everything else followed on from there and yes I watched horrified as Syria and Russia barrel Bombed the suburbs of Aleppo. Why was it never commented about on this forum? I don't know. I guess at the end of the day we are a football forum and shouldn't introduce politics hereon. I certainly know I'm not going there again because it's far too touchy and can quickly descend into histrionics. In the past the forum has been used by some as a platform to give opinion about local political matters. That's their choice but as an exile I certainly won't be getting heavily involved because I don't feel I have enough of a vested interest in the area anymore. That said I still love my home town and would really like to see Eden Garden North be built because it would do so much for the area.

In respect of 'Gesture Politics of the worst kind.' I made my initial suggestion merely as a show of solidarity to the Ukraine immediately after the Russians had invaded. Possibly in my own mind to galvanise folk for any subsequent fundraising or relief efforts. In hindsight it was probably ill judged because the uprising of public support for the Ukraine in the following days has been superb and my suggestion wouldn't have made a jot of difference. On a side note I did notice a Ukrainian flag hung from in front of the media box. Gesture Politics? You decide.

In respect of fundraising for the Ukraine I applaud any and all efforts to help them. My exile status makes attending meetings in the Bay area difficult but thankyou for the invitation and I wish you all the best with your efforts. I will of course be making personal donations to the cause and doing anything else I can to support the people of the Ukraine.

[redrobo]

Just hope that somebody in Russia has the guts to challenge the dictator or better still that some overseas special forces takes him out.

From the expressions of his military generals they looked uneasy with the call for nuclear weapons to be put on alert.-

Just watched his latest rant. 15 minutes of utter tripe and out and out lies. Whoever is providing him with the information must be as mad as he is. The sooner he is put out of existence the better.

[black morse]

Just hope that somebody in Russia has the guts to challenge the dictator or better still that some overseas special forces takes him out.

From the expressions of his military generals they looked uneasy with the call for nuclear weapons to be put on alert.

World Wars have been started for less RR. Be careful what you wish for.

[Phil Anderer]

Just a little note for a few people, and it's no criticism for 2 reasons:
1. Until recently I thought the same, and
2. My info may be wrong (I think it was the Guardian)
Anyway, it's Ukraine- the 'the', as I understand it, is originally an Americanism, and is incorrect.

Posh, I agree with the vast majority of what you've said, including about the Tories and Russian money, but don't forget it was Labour PM Tony Blair took us into the disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, including potentially deliberately fabricating the fake WMD intelligence.

[Andy D]

First of all I apologise if my comments came across as a threat to Andy d. I must admit I was very angry when I was posting and had probably had a drink too many immediately prior.

No worries ive been guilty of this myself, even on here years ago, and next day been like but learned from it.

But let’s bear in mind that Putin claims he’s gone into the Ukraine to protect Russian interests and bring about regime change. Anyone care to tell me how this is any different to what we did in Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, over 20 million refugees, famine, corruption and destabilisation that has come to our door in terrorism and an asylum crisis.

Absolutely! since 9/11 we should all know what the rest of the world think of America, i’m fairly well traveled and in some ways embarrassed when meeting and speaking to other travellers globally when asked what i think about following America and being involved with them makes us just as bad.

PS i edited the latter as i’m now on a bigger screen, and quoted the wrong bit.

[Bristol Shrimp]

"Ukraine" means borderland in Slavic languages, think a lot of confusion with the while "The Ukraine" probably stems from people who knew this so called it "The Ukraine" like "The Borderland" don't know but this is the only way that that could make sense to me as to why people call it that.

[marky No.1]

"I sometimes engage mouth before brain"

Don't worry Phoenix that applies to a lot of folk on line, if not in our daily lives

I can write down a list of names if ya like

[jbc.shrimp]

Liz Truss on Marcus Rashford campaigning to feed children...
"footballers should keep out of politics".

Liz Truss on the European Cup final in Russia...
English teams should "boycott it".

Come on Liz, are footballers in or out of politics?

I agree that football shouldn't be making political statements. That said, if MarkS played this, it is a pretty rousing pre-match tune!

Ruslana: Wild Dances.
Ukraine's 2004 Eurovision Song Contest Winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10XR67NQcAc

Keith, I totally agree with you that sports should not be making political statements, but I thought you agreed with taking the knee before games. Surely this is in support of a political movement (BLM), which I do not support. If I am in error, happy to be corrected.

[Keith]

Liz Truss on Marcus Rashford campaigning to feed children...
"footballers should keep out of politics".

Liz Truss on the European Cup final in Russia...
English teams should "boycott it".

Come on Liz, are footballers in or out of politics?

I agree that football shouldn't be making political statements. That said, if MarkS played this, it is a pretty rousing pre-match tune!

Ruslana: Wild Dances.
Ukraine's 2004 Eurovision Song Contest Winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10XR67NQcAc

Keith, I totally agree with you that sports should not be making political statements, but I thought you agreed with taking the knee before games. Surely this is in support of a political movement (BLM), which I do not support. If I am in error, happy to be corrected.

Yup, good point and guilty as charged. In fact my own hypocrisy is even closer, in this thread I advocated boycotting the World Cup due to the lack of human rights in Qatar.

[Andy D]

On the Radio this week there was a good debate about politics and Football.

one making a point about double standards with Celtic getting fined £130.000 by Uefa because supporters were flying Palestine flags in support of civilians being bombed by Isreal in 2016.