4th official at Accy

[glagys]

Mr Robert Madden

Surly he cannot cause mayhem on the sidelines can he??

[Gone_Shrimping]

Mr Robert Madden

Surly he cannot cause mayhem on the sidelines can he??

Well he could , but it's better than him refereeing.

[glagys]

I wonder if he told the ref it was a sending off
Mayhem continues

[fulwoodshrimp]

The standard of officiating week after week is truly awful. The refereeing is deciding who goes up and who is relegated. English football has to get its act together if football is to remain the beautiful game.

[Born again Bill]

“Ended up being 10 v12” among other things was the comment made by Connor Ripley on Radio Lancashire , well done to him I’m fed up of people not speaking up about these clowns !

[Keith]

From 'The Laws of the Game'

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

I think that's how the linesman saw it. Gnahoua didn't intend to hit their player, but 'intent' isn't mentioned in the laws of the game. His elbow got there before the rest of him and hit their player in the face/head. Gnahoua missed the ball, their lad headed it. He just completely mistimed his jump, but I think the officials got it right. Doesn't excuse Accrington players surrounding the ref like they did or their player making a meal of it.

[CityShrimp]

From 'The Laws of the Game'

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

I think that's how the linesman saw it. Gnahoua didn't intend to hit their player, but 'intent' isn't mentioned in the laws of the game. His elbow got there before the rest of him and hit their player in the face/head. Gnahoua missed the ball, their lad headed it. He just completely mistimed his jump, but I think the officials got it right. Doesn't excuse Accrington players surrounding the ref like they did or their player making a meal of it.

I think there’s some subjectivity there. If a player accidentally kicks the head of a defender who is making a diving header, then you could say the kick endangered the opponent but it shouldn’t be a red - sometimes it’s just an unfortunate accident.

Having said all that, I agree that we’re unlikely to be successful with an appeal. You’ve usually got to prove that the ref was blatantly wrong beyond all doubt which isn’t really the case here.

[Keith]

I think there’s some subjectivity there. If a player accidentally kicks the head of a defender who is making a diving header, then you could say the kick endangered the opponent but it shouldn’t be a red - sometimes it’s just an unfortunate accident.

Having said all that, I agree that we’re unlikely to be successful with an appeal. You’ve usually got to prove that the ref was blatantly wrong beyond all doubt which isn’t really the case here.

I agree, 100%. But that is the issue, we have to understand that the subjectivity of the linesman, including their position, relative to the incident, affects their decision making. I don't think they were 'wrong' because the incident could be interpreted, in accordance with the law of the game.

We've seen them given as red cards, we've seen the game play on with no offence. I don't think that makes the decision 'wrong'. I'll be surprised if we appeal, I'll be amazed if we do appeal, then win.

[Gone_Shrimping]

An appeal would be a waste of time. The video suggests an elbow even if it was unintentional.

They will always back the referee.

Be interesting to know how many players we have had sent off against Accrington since gaining EFL status.

I remember Barry Roche sliding out and catching the ball only to be red-carded.

Have Accrington ever had any red cards against us , can't remember any.

[fulwoodshrimp]

All this debate about intent and subjectivity is in danger of exonerating an official that was very biased and one -sided. You knew as soon as the player rolled around like he had been shot and a bunch of Accrington players surrounded the referee that a red card would be produced. Lets be frank, in my opinion Saturday's referee and several others we have had this season shouldn't be anywhere near the EFL. We are promoting abysmal referee after abysmal referee and change is needed. You look at some of the referees and it's quite obvious they have never really played the game and have no feel for the game but now are officiating. Many referees are biased in favour of the big boys so its likely next Saturday Ipswich will get the key decisions in their favour. I still believe we should be recruiting people who have played the game and know it and have a feel for it. We can't go on pretending all is well with the beautiful game, we have a refereeing crisis!

[black morse]

The problem in recruiting better refs may well be that not many people would want to do it. Be interesting to know how much they get paid. I suspect it isn't a big sum when you think of the abuse they have to take.

The other aspect is that we, as Morecambe fans, are bound to be biased over close decisions. Does anyone think that fans of all clubs do not feel exactly the same as us? You only have to listen to many coaches after match interviews!

[Little Shrimp]

All this debate about intent and subjectivity is in danger of exonerating an official that was very biased and one -sided. You knew as soon as the player rolled around like he had been shot and a bunch of Accrington players surrounded the referee that a red card would be produced. Lets be frank, in my opinion Saturday's referee and several others we have had this season shouldn't be anywhere near the EFL. We are promoting abysmal referee after abysmal referee and change is needed. You look at some of the referees and it's quite obvious they have never really played the game and have no feel for the game but now are officiating. Many referees are biased in favour of the big boys so its likely next Saturday Ipswich will get the key decisions in their favour. I still believe we should be recruiting people who have played the game and know it and have a feel for it. We can't go on pretending all is well with the beautiful game, we have a refereeing crisis!

The issue with recruiting people from within the game who have played etc is that it takes a very long time to get to a level in refereeing where you actually get paid a decent amount. Premier League referees get very good money (not the same as players of course but generally speaking very good), but I think many refereeing in L1/L2 are semi-pro. I don't think you get a proper retainer until Championship level, although I'm happy to be corrected. Also takes a number of years to get to this point - slogging it in non-league for £30 or so a match.

It's not an easy route but more manageable if you're younger, got a job/career going and don't need to immediately rely on income as a referee. But if you're 35 with a knackered body and no immediate job/career to necessarily fall back on, then I imagine the prospect of a few years faffing around refereeing for peanuts in the non-league system is not a tempting one.

[vvm]

The abuse dished out to the refs at the lower levels is abysmal also. Generally around our level they are well protected, they might catch some abuse and boos but nothing like the personal threats I've seen from fans and even players in the lower divisions when there are no stewards or anyone around to protect them.

I don't understand how anyone could be arsed putting up with that so it doesn't surprised me that the standard higher up the divisions suffers for it.

[Keith]

The abuse dished out to the refs at the lower levels is abysmal also. Generally around our level they are well protected, they might catch some abuse and boos but nothing like the personal threats I've seen from fans and even players in the lower divisions when there are no stewards or anyone around to protect them.

I don't understand how anyone could be arsed putting up with that so it doesn't surprised me that the standard higher up the divisions suffers for it.

It's a problem with football that could be reasonably easily solved. In hockey & rugby, the refs/umpires don't take any abuse, players get carded very quickly, and 'sin-binned', so they know not to do it. If refs in football had a green 'sin-bin' card, specifically for situations of 'badgering' then players would stop doing it. On Saturday, the ref would have been able to 'sin-bin' half a dozen Accrington players. It would have been 10 v 5 for five minutes or so! We still wouldn't have had any shots on target, but that's not the point!

[CityShrimp]

All this debate about intent and subjectivity is in danger of exonerating an official that was very biased and one -sided. You knew as soon as the player rolled around like he had been shot and a bunch of Accrington players surrounded the referee that a red card would be produced

This has always been a problem in games against Accrington. Year after year we come up against an Accrington side who dive, cheat and foul their way through the game and we never seem prepared for it.

If I had the time or inclination, I’d go back and check this but I genuinely think that we’ve either had a player sent off or a penalty conceded in at least 50% of our games against Accy over the last say 20 years (with most of those decisions being controversial ones). And virtually no penalty/red card decisions going in our favour during that period.

[Gone_Shrimping]

All this debate about intent and subjectivity is in danger of exonerating an official that was very biased and one -sided. You knew as soon as the player rolled around like he had been shot and a bunch of Accrington players surrounded the referee that a red card would be produced

This has always been a problem in games against Accrington. Year after year we come up against an Accrington side who dive, cheat and foul their way through the game and we never seem prepared for it.

If I had the time or inclination, I’d go back and check this but I genuinely think that we’ve either had a player sent off or a penalty conceded in at least 50% of our games against Accy over the last say 20 years (with most of those decisions being controversial ones). And virtually no penalty/red card decisions going in our favour during that period.

I think we got 1 penalty against Accrington. The score was 0-0 after we battered them without scoring and we got a penalty in the 3rd minutes of 3 added minutes of added time. Richard Brodie stepped up and the keeper saved it and we had to wait a couple more years to beat them when Wildig scored.