O/T Eden Project North

[redrobo]

Wonder if the request for Government Money for the above could well be in jeopardy following the horrendous mess that Truss has put our country in....

The sooner she goes the better.....however not sure that the alternatives to a Tory Government would be that much better....

[Scouseport_Shrimp]

Have a General Election asap, let Liebour win by a landslide.....give it 12 months, and it'll be come back Boris, all is forgiven.

[twosheds]

I emailed Eden a couple of week ago and asked them for an update, this was their response....

"I have contacted our project leads to get you an answer to your enquiry as I felt that such an important enquiry deserved the best possible answer. I was communicated to me that, a £50m bid to the Levelling Up Fund was submitted by Lancaster City Council for Eden Project North in August and we await the Government’s decision on whether the bid has been successful. We are confident that the bid makes a strong case for investment and that Eden Project North will provide an economic, environmental and cultural boost to the North West region, providing excellent value for money for the taxpayer.

It should also be said we are hugely grateful to all our friends and supporters, much like yourself Keith, who have backed this project from the beginning. Should you have any further questions, I will endeavour to answer as best as I can!"

I also emailed our representative in the Houses of Parliament...here is his reply...

"The funding bid was submitted at the beginning of August and is being assessed by Civil Servants in the Department for Levelling Up and we need to wait for the announcement, which should come in the next couple of months. We have an extremely strong bid in and we expect a positive outcome."

[Keith]

...however not sure that the alternatives to a Tory Government would be that much better....

Other than a 'never liked Labour and can't bring myself to do so', why don't you think they wouldn't be a good alternative?

Keir Starmer is clearly a clever bloke (don't get to be Director of Public Prosecution without being intelligent). He comes from a working class background (mum was a nurse, dad a toolmaker). His leadership is 'left of centre', rather than far left, more Blair than Corbyn. Unlike the Tories, all their plans are costed and explained.

I also like Angela Raynor, who despite the way some elements of the national press try to portray her, is another intelligent, caring person. I particularly liked a story about her. She was being shadowed by a reporter. Once a week, after her team had lunch together, Raynor sneaked off for some 'private time'. The reporter found out that many years ago, before she was in politics, Rayner had signed up to a charity that befriended elderly people, who were socially isolated, so they had a regular 'telephone chat'. Despite her political position, Raynor kept this relationship going, with the weekly phone call. The old lady who she has been chatting to for years is a die-hard Tory, who has no idea that she's talking to the Deputy Leader of the Labour party. Apparently, after a public hustings & campaigning in Stockport, the lady said something like, "I saw that Angela Raynor woman in town, what an awful woman!" She still doesn't know that her friend is 'that awful woman' She was also a 'Samaritan' for many years, although she had to give that up. I can't imagine any of the senior Tories volunteering their time like that?

As for Eden, I'm much less confident now than a few months ago.

[Gone_Shrimping]

...however not sure that the alternatives to a Tory Government would be that much better....

Other than a 'never liked Labour and can't bring myself to do so', why don't you think they wouldn't be a good alternative?

Keir Starmer is clearly a clever bloke (don't get to be Director of Public Prosecution without being intelligent). He comes from a working class background (mum was a nurse, dad a toolmaker). His leadership is 'left of centre', rather than far left, more Blair than Corbyn. Unlike the Tories, all their plans are costed and explained.

I also like Angela Raynor, who despite the way some elements of the national press try to portray her, is another intelligent, caring person. I particularly liked a story about her. She was being shadowed by a reporter. Once a week, after her team had lunch together, Raynor sneaked off for some 'private time'. The reporter found out that many years ago, before she was in politics, Rayner had signed up to a charity that befriended elderly people, who were socially isolated, so they had a regular 'telephone chat'. Despite her political position, Raynor kept this relationship going, with the weekly phone call. The old lady who she has been chatting to for years is a die-hard Tory, who has no idea that she's talking to the Deputy Leader of the Labour party. Apparently, after a public hustings & campaigning in Stockport, the lady said something like, "I saw that Angela Raynor woman in town, what an awful woman!" She still doesn't know that her friend is 'that awful woman' She was also a 'Samaritan' for many years, although she had to give that up. I can't imagine any of the senior Tories volunteering their time like that?

As for Eden, I'm much less confident now than a few months ago.

His Dad owned the factory.

[Keith]

His Dad owned the factory.

As far as I can gather, his father was a toolmaker who eventually set up his own, 'sole-trader' company, where he continued to be a specialist toolmaker. I don't think he was ever a 'factory owner', in the sense of employing many/any people. Happy to be corrected if there is evidence to the contrary?

[Gone_Shrimping]

His Dad owned the factory.

As far as I can gather, his father was a toolmaker who eventually set up his own, 'sole-trader' company, where he continued to be a specialist toolmaker. I don't think he was ever a 'factory owner', in the sense of employing many/any people. Happy to be corrected if there is evidence to the contrary?

His dad owned the factory. That's all I said , I didn't suggest it was the size of a multi national. Happy to be corrected if there is evidence to the contrary,

[redrobo]

...however not sure that the alternatives to a Tory Government would be that much better....

Other than a 'never liked Labour and can't bring myself to do so', why don't you think they wouldn't be a good alternative?

Keir Starmer is clearly a clever bloke (don't get to be Director of Public Prosecution without being intelligent). He comes from a working class background (mum was a nurse, dad a toolmaker). His leadership is 'left of centre', rather than far left, more Blair than Corbyn. Unlike the Tories, all their plans are costed and explained.

I also like Angela Raynor, who despite the way some elements of the national press try to portray her, is another intelligent, caring person. I particularly liked a story about her. She was being shadowed by a reporter. Once a week, after her team had lunch together, Raynor sneaked off for some 'private time'. The reporter found out that many years ago, before she was in politics, Rayner had signed up to a charity that befriended elderly people, who were socially isolated, so they had a regular 'telephone chat'. Despite her political position, Raynor kept this relationship going, with the weekly phone call. The old lady who she has been chatting to for years is a die-hard Tory, who has no idea that she's talking to the Deputy Leader of the Labour party. Apparently, after a public hustings & campaigning in Stockport, the lady said something like, "I saw that Angela Raynor woman in town, what an awful woman!" She still doesn't know that her friend is 'that awful woman' She was also a 'Samaritan' for many years, although she had to give that up. I can't imagine any of the senior Tories volunteering their time like that?

As for Eden, I'm much less confident now than a few months ago.

As if 'windfall taxes' are going to pay for everything AND if they tax a company's profits that leaves LESS for companies to invest in new technology etc.

Simply put I don't trust them nor do I like some of their MP's (Raynor in particular nor their Shadow Chancellor) just as you don't trust or like the current Government....but hey that's life and we can't change the system however corrupt it may be thanks to both the Blues and Reds at all levels of National and Local Government....

[Wild Bill]

...however not sure that the alternatives to a Tory Government would be that much better....

Other than a 'never liked Labour and can't bring myself to do so', why don't you think they wouldn't be a good alternative?

Keir Starmer is clearly a clever bloke (don't get to be Director of Public Prosecution without being intelligent). He comes from a working class background (mum was a nurse, dad a toolmaker). His leadership is 'left of centre', rather than far left, more Blair than Corbyn. Unlike the Tories, all their plans are costed and explained.

I also like Angela Raynor, who despite the way some elements of the national press try to portray her, is another intelligent, caring person. I particularly liked a story about her. She was being shadowed by a reporter. Once a week, after her team had lunch together, Raynor sneaked off for some 'private time'. The reporter found out that many years ago, before she was in politics, Rayner had signed up to a charity that befriended elderly people, who were socially isolated, so they had a regular 'telephone chat'. Despite her political position, Raynor kept this relationship going, with the weekly phone call. The old lady who she has been chatting to for years is a die-hard Tory, who has no idea that she's talking to the Deputy Leader of the Labour party. Apparently, after a public hustings & campaigning in Stockport, the lady said something like, "I saw that Angela Raynor woman in town, what an awful woman!" She still doesn't know that her friend is 'that awful woman' She was also a 'Samaritan' for many years, although she had to give that up. I can't imagine any of the senior Tories volunteering their time like that?

As for Eden, I'm much less confident now than a few months ago.

As if 'windfall taxes' are going to pay for everything AND if they tax a company's profits that leaves LESS for companies to invest in new technology etc.

Simply put I don't trust them nor do I like some of their MP's (Raynor in particular nor their Shadow Chancellor) just as you don't trust or like the current Government....but hey that's life and we can't change the system however corrupt it may be thanks to both the Blues and Reds at all levels of National and Local Government....

With a windfall tax you are taxing unexpected profits. Shell's profits have doubled recently with rising energy prices, but its a very weak argument to say that you will reduce their investment if you tax their unexpected profits. There is obvious vested interest at play though currently, where oil and gas companies have given the Conservatives £1.5m since the last election and the current PM is a former employee of Shell.

If you are saying you don't trust or like a particular MP, you should have some justification for it. For example I didn't like Cameron and Osborne, as they cut the top rate of tax by 5p when they came to office and then introduced massive austerity that lead to the decline in public services. If you have no justification, then you need to consider what is making you distrust or dislike them. Really politics should be about policies, indicating what you value and think the priorities for spending should be.

[Freez]

The evidence for Starmer’s father owning a factory is there, however the evidence that it was more than a one man band is compelling. The local business directory lists the company in the 60’s onwards but it appears that there were no other employees.
So the suggestion that he owned a factory is correct, though from some basic research it is stretching it a little as it seems likely to be owner operated.
And the private school thing, Starmer won a scholarship to a grammar school that became fee paying after he had been attending for three years, with his fees being paid for by the local council as he was already a pupil.
Hope this helps.

[CityShrimp]

I find it bizarre that the same people who criticise Starmer for the slightest sign of privilege were happy to vote for Boris ‘man of the people’ Johnson, who is the absolute embodiment of elitism and privilege.

[Wild Bill]

I find it bizarre that the same people who criticise Starmer for the slightest sign of privilege were happy to vote for Boris ‘man of the people’ Johnson, who is the absolute embodiment of elitism and privilege.

Very odd isn't it.

[Keith]

I find it bizarre that the same people who criticise Starmer for the slightest sign of privilege were happy to vote for Boris ‘man of the people’ Johnson, who is the absolute embodiment of elitism and privilege.

Starmer has intelligence and integrity... ...he's 'boring'.
Johnson is a thick, liar, 'but we like him'.

And we wonder why the country is a mess?

[mrpotatohead]

Anyway , back to the eden project ....not happening in the near future, not a chance, in a new era of massive cuts and hardship it wouldn't make sense to splash out on a luxury item , as for "providing employment for 300 people " ..blah blah blah, most places in the local service and hospitality industries struggle to find staff since brexit.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Anyway , back to the eden project ....not happening in the near future, not a chance, in a new era of massive cuts and hardship it wouldn't make sense to splash out on a luxury item , as for "providing employment for 300 people " ..blah blah blah, most places in the local service and hospitality industries struggle to find staff since brexit.

Eden is more likely to happen now. The money has already been allocated to the Levelling up fund and Eden is probably the best case to have been put forward for money. Also it is regarded as being of educational value , (not "luxury") so you can imagine school parties making trips from all Lancashire and beyond.

You could change your business name to "Eden Antiques". It has a nice ring to it

[redrobo]

Anyway , back to the eden project ....not happening in the near future, not a chance, in a new era of massive cuts and hardship it wouldn't make sense to splash out on a luxury item , as for "providing employment for 300 people " ..blah blah blah, most places in the local service and hospitality industries struggle to find staff since brexit.

Eden is more likely to happen now. The money has already been allocated to the Levelling up fund and Eden is probably the best case to have been put forward for money. Also it is regarded as being of educational value , (not "luxury") so you can imagine school parties making trips from all Lancashire and beyond.

You could change your business name to "Eden Antiques". It has a nice ring to it

I sure hope you are right but recent actions by this Government show that a U Turn cannot be ruled out.....

[Gone_Shrimping]

Anyway , back to the eden project ....not happening in the near future, not a chance, in a new era of massive cuts and hardship it wouldn't make sense to splash out on a luxury item , as for "providing employment for 300 people " ..blah blah blah, most places in the local service and hospitality industries struggle to find staff since brexit.

Eden is more likely to happen now. The money has already been allocated to the Levelling up fund and Eden is probably the best case to have been put forward for money. Also it is regarded as being of educational value , (not "luxury") so you can imagine school parties making trips from all Lancashire and beyond.

You could change your business name to "Eden Antiques". It has a nice ring to it

I sure hope you are right but recent actions by this Government show that a U Turn cannot be ruled out.....

The money has already gone into the levelling up fund. There should be news in the next month.

[Keith]

Simply put I don't trust them nor do I like some of their MP's (Raynor in particular nor their Shadow Chancellor) just as you don't trust or like the current Government...

But is there a reason for not trusting them? Things that they've done or said, that lead you to that conclusion? Or, is it simply 'gut feeling'?

The hydrocarbon companies are creaming in excess profits, that they are paying to shareholders. There is zero evidence that they have increased research & development of renewable energy due to the excess, unplanned for profit. Also, did anyone notice the price of fuel coming down when the VAT on fuel was reduced? Or did that simply add directly to profit?

My dislike of Johnson was because he was a known, proven liar. He lied throughout the 'Leave' campaign, he lied about 'COVID parties', he is still under investigation by the Parliamentary Standards for misleading Parliament. I dislike Truss because she believes in 'trickle down economics', something that has never worked. She believes if you make rich people, richer, they contribute more to society, when the evidence shows, they simply have a bigger bank account and she believes that making poor people poorer, incentivises them to work harder and longer. She's been. apart of the government for more than a decade and she has supported cuts to benefits etcetera throughout.

[marky No.1]

How long ago in the distant past was the budget of £50M?
If you go by price rises in everything else including the building trade, that figure must be 50% higher by now

[Gone_Shrimping]

Simply put I don't trust them nor do I like some of their MP's (Raynor in particular nor their Shadow Chancellor) just as you don't trust or like the current Government...

But is there a reason for not trusting them? Things that they've done or said, that lead you to that conclusion? Or, is it simply 'gut feeling'?

The hydrocarbon companies are creaming in excess profits, that they are paying to shareholders. There is zero evidence that they have increased research & development of renewable energy due to the excess, unplanned for profit. Also, did anyone notice the price of fuel coming down when the VAT on fuel was reduced? Or did that simply add directly to profit?

My dislike of Johnson was because he was a known, proven liar. He lied throughout the 'Leave' campaign, he lied about 'COVID parties', he is still under investigation by the Parliamentary Standards for misleading Parliament. I dislike Truss because she believes in 'trickle down economics', something that has never worked. She believes if you make rich people, richer, they contribute more to society, when the evidence shows, they simply have a bigger bank account and she believes that making poor people poorer, incentivises them to work harder and longer. She's been. apart of the government for more than a decade and she has supported cuts to benefits etcetera throughout.

When was the V.A.T. on fuel reduced , I think I missed that one. Petrol has come down about 30 pence a litre or by about £1-35p per gallon. I am glad I no longer have a diesel car as that fuel is 20 or 30p more per litre.

[Phil Anderer]

Other than a 'never liked Labour and can't bring myself to do so', why don't you think they wouldn't be a good alternative?

Keir Starmer is clearly a clever bloke (don't get to be Director of Public Prosecution without being intelligent). He comes from a working class background (mum was a nurse, dad a toolmaker). His leadership is 'left of centre', rather than far left, more Blair than Corbyn. Unlike the Tories, all their plans are costed and explained.

I also like Angela Raynor, who despite the way some elements of the national press try to portray her, is another intelligent, caring person. I particularly liked a story about her. She was being shadowed by a reporter. Once a week, after her team had lunch together, Raynor sneaked off for some 'private time'. The reporter found out that many years ago, before she was in politics, Rayner had signed up to a charity that befriended elderly people, who were socially isolated, so they had a regular 'telephone chat'. Despite her political position, Raynor kept this relationship going, with the weekly phone call. The old lady who she has been chatting to for years is a die-hard Tory, who has no idea that she's talking to the Deputy Leader of the Labour party. Apparently, after a public hustings & campaigning in Stockport, the lady said something like, "I saw that Angela Raynor woman in town, what an awful woman!" She still doesn't know that her friend is 'that awful woman' She was also a 'Samaritan' for many years, although she had to give that up. I can't imagine any of the senior Tories volunteering their time like that?

As for Eden, I'm much less confident now than a few months ago.

As if 'windfall taxes' are going to pay for everything AND if they tax a company's profits that leaves LESS for companies to invest in new technology etc.

Simply put I don't trust them nor do I like some of their MP's (Raynor in particular nor their Shadow Chancellor) just as you don't trust or like the current Government....but hey that's life and we can't change the system however corrupt it may be thanks to both the Blues and Reds at all levels of National and Local Government....

With a windfall tax you are taxing unexpected profits. Shell's profits have doubled recently with rising energy prices, but its a very weak argument to say that you will reduce their investment if you tax their unexpected profits. There is obvious vested interest at play though currently, where oil and gas companies have given the Conservatives £1.5m since the last election and the current PM is a former employee of Shell.

If you are saying you don't trust or like a particular MP, you should have some justification for it. For example I didn't like Cameron and Osborne, as they cut the top rate of tax by 5p when they came to office and then introduced massive austerity that lead to the decline in public services. If you have no justification, then you need to consider what is making you distrust or dislike them. Really politics should be about policies, indicating what you value and think the priorities for spending should be.

Just a further point about the windfall tax. These companies are making huge profits through Putin's illegal war in Ukraine and the Opec + group restricting oil supplies to help prop up the Russian economy and fill their own pockets in the process. A windfall tax would only be on the 'excess' profits, so would not have any impact whatsoever on the respective companies' normal profits and inward investment to improve their own operations. The only objection to any such tax is ideological - there is no logical government or, indeed, business case against it. The Doris/Sunak government was willing to impose such a tax. Hopefully now Jeremy Hunt's in charge he'll force another u-turn on 'Liability Liz'.

[redrobo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the problems with a windfall tax is that it would only apply to a British registered company so the amount raised would only fund a small proportion of Labours alternative budget plans. The rest would come from an increase in tax and as is usual with Labour a huge borrowing requirement.....

[Gone_Shrimping]

How long ago in the distant past was the budget of £50M?
If you go by price rises in everything else including the building trade, that figure must be 50% higher by now

The Levelling up money of £50m (this is not the budget , Eden have investors for the rest of the cost) was decided only a few months ago when planning permission was granted . They will probably have built a contingency into the budget.

Announced today by the Levelling Up Secretary Simon Clarke that a decision will be made before the end of 2022.

[Freez]

We can but hope!!
As for Labour as usual borrowing, you do know Neil, that this current Conservative government have borrowed three times as much as every Labour government put together??
So dont spout nonsense unless it’s football

[Gone_Shrimping]

We can but hope!!
As for Labour as usual borrowing, you do know Neil, that this current Conservative government have borrowed three times as much as every Labour government put together??
So dont spout nonsense unless it’s football

And the borrowing has been to keep people in work during the pandemic , the grants to the Self Employed and the payment of 80% of the net wages which was a great scheme when some on the Left were predicting Unemployment at massive levels and yet the UK unemployment is the lowest it has been for 50 years and much lower then the EU. Another Brexit bonus.