Club finances

[redrobo]

Wonder how much DA would realistic want to improve his team and if money was available in what areas

I know nothing about how much players want in wages but would a further £200K be a reasonable sum to get a couple of decent players in on good money in addition to transfer fees.

[KenH]

Wonder how much DA would realistic want to improve his team and if money was available in what areas

I know nothing about how much players want in wages but would a further £200K be a reasonable sum to get a couple of decent players in on good money in addition to transfer fees.

The 20/21 accounts showed total wages bill £2.3m for 163 staff, 42 of which were "players/management". So, by a simple average, that's just £14k per employee, but lots will be "behind the scenes" part time staff, so not really too helpful. But if, say, half that total was for the 42 players/management, that averages at £27,380 per player/manager, and, considering the youngsters who'll be on low wages, maybe the "average" for older/experienced players maybe £50,000 or roughly £1,000 per week. No doubt our "top" earning players like Cole are more likely to be on £2,000 per week.

So, an extra £200k would probably pay for 1 top quality player and maybe 1 or 2 experienced players, based on the kind of player we already have (i.e. Cole standard, so good standard but not the kind of "top" players the moneybag L1 teams can afford). So, maybe a couple of decent quality/experienced players if we were lucky and John/Derek could sell the club to them.

Of course, aren't there financial limits imposed by FIFA as to wages costs in proportion to club income etc? Or have they been scrapped now? I thought at one time, there were limits to stop clubs "buying" players from debt/loans etc?

[redrobo]

I suspect that any financial rules are being swerved by a good number of clubs who put players onto the wage bills of their club owners.

Nothing to suggest I know this for a fact but it was rumoured a few seasons ago that Fleetwood had put certain players onto the wage bill of the clubs owner to 'get round' these financial rules.

[fulwoodshrimp]

Useful information KenH. My worry is we are skint but a lot of our staff expenditure is off the field building up the infrastructure for League 1. As a consequence the manager hasn't enough to strengthen the playing side especially given he inherited players from the previous manager on two year contracts when they are nowhere near good enough for the league. At the end of the season this will be corrected as several will be released at the end of their contracts. Meanwhile we have to hope that funds will be found from somewhere to help the manager avoid the dreaded drop!

[BerlinWaller]

I suspect that any financial rules are being swerved by a good number of clubs who put players onto the wage bills of their club owners.

Nothing to suggest I know this for a fact but it was rumoured a few seasons ago that Fleetwood had put certain players onto the wage bill of the clubs owner to 'get round' these financial rules.

Nothing new, we did it with Jacko.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Useful information KenH. My worry is we are skint but a lot of our staff expenditure is off the field building up the infrastructure for League 1. As a consequence the manager hasn't enough to strengthen the playing side especially given he inherited players from the previous manager on two year contracts when they are nowhere near good enough for the league. At the end of the season this will be corrected as several will be released at the end of their contracts. Meanwhile we have to hope that funds will be found from somewhere to help the manager avoid the dreaded drop!

Derek says he has identified some targets but doesn't know yet whether we will be able to sign them. Depends on whether club is sold and also on some players being moved on.

[Redalert1970]

We must sign another striker in January or we will go down it`s pretty simple (but most teams will be looking for strikers)

[redrobo]

We must sign another striker in January or we will go down it`s pretty simple (but most teams will be looking for strikers)

....or bring in another loan striker who is currently with a Championship or Premier League club.

Think the latest to leave Man Utd could do with some game time......

[Dave (Barra)]

Do we utilise all the clubs facilities to make money? Accrington seem to be making the most of their new bar and Holt says any money raised boosts Coleys budget.

I agree. I've mentioned before how Accrington appear to keep a large number of fans at the ground after the game, spending money. We're pretty much shut-up shop by 7pm. I put my head in the door of the Wright & Lord suite for the MotM award a while back, there were about twenty-five people in there, most of them I'd guess were the sponsors' party. Why not try stuff like having a local band on up there, after the game? Attract fans up there, rather than it being an 'exclusive' [empty/shut] facility?

Do you follow Andy Holt on twitter? He posted last night that their new bar has taken £350k since it opened, 27k pints of Madri sold etc. Great detail.

I popped down there for a podcast live show - fantastic facility and the investment is obviously paying off.

It’s a standard shout at our place now - “If Accy can do it….”

[KenH]

Unfortunately, I don't think MFC have much of a business/entreprenneurial spirit. Just been down to the club shop - 2.30 pm - closed! Went to reception, just several staff talking, asked for something from the shop, but no, "on her lunch hour" apparently!

Not the first time either, in fact, I've been several times over the past couple of years to find it closed during published "opening hours" meaning wasted journeys to go back at other times.

It's really not good enough. It's pretty basic business 101 to actually be open during published opening hours, and if not, to at least serve via reception.

[Shrimp Girl]

Unfortunately, I don't think MFC have much of a business/entreprenneurial spirit. Just been down to the club shop - 2.30 pm - closed! Went to reception, just several staff talking, asked for something from the shop, but no, "on her lunch hour" apparently!

Not the first time either, in fact, I've been several times over the past couple of years to find it closed during published "opening hours" meaning wasted journeys to go back at other times.

It's really not good enough. It's pretty basic business 101 to actually be open during published opening hours, and if not, to at least serve via reception.

Has happened to me as well, although when I've found them shut, they've managed to find someone to go through to the shop - one time Kitman Les was helping out!
There is another fan survey out if you fancy sharing your ideas/complaints/compliments with the club that way
https://www.morecambefc.com/news/2022/n ... ce-survey/

[Keith]

Went to reception, just several staff talking, asked for something from the shop, but no, "on her lunch hour" apparently!

Surely it isn't difficult to organise cover for lunch breaks, so the shop is open right through?

There is another fan survey out if you fancy sharing your ideas/complaints/compliments with the club that way
https://www.morecambefc.com/news/2022/n ... ce-survey/

This frustrates me a lot. I know this forum isn't as active as it has been in the past, but, it is still. read by a large number of people. I've suggested to the club that they use it, but they simply won't do so. I. can understand the club not wanting to get involved in 'discussions' generally, and there are occasions when board members do contribute, but the club could promote themselves on here, and remember that a lot of people who read this board don't use Facebook. How ironic, that this one is titled 'Fan Engagement'.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Interesting that we are now advertising for sale tickets for the Club's Gala Evening which takes place on
8th July 2023.

Can't remember them being on sale so early.

[marky No.1]

Interesting that we are now advertising for sale tickets for the Club's Gala Evening which takes place on
8th July 2023.

Can't remember them being on sale so early.

£20 deposits should bring in a much needed £3K with a lack of home games at the moment.

I've booked hospitality for Lincoln in 5 months time and they wanted the full amount up front

[Born again Bill]

Had a few meals in the pipeline throughout the season until I. Found out they were all to be payed up front which which would have been over a thousand pounds ! Spread out over the season maybe but pavement all in one go no thanks . Needless to say I cancelled!!

[vvm]

There's been quite a few deals on hospitality options recently, lower than usual demand or are we getting a bit more desperate for cash?

[Gone_Shrimping]

Interesting that we are now advertising for sale tickets for the Club's Gala Evening which takes place on
8th July 2023.

Can't remember them being on sale so early.

£20 deposits should bring in a much needed £3K with a lack of home games at the moment.

I've booked hospitality for Lincoln in 5 months time and they wanted the full amount up front

A bit worrying if the club was needing a sum as small as £3,000.

I hope this isn't the case but I can see these events putting a few people off from purchasing season tickets next season. A rough calculation for the 2,800 season tickets (1,000 seats , 1,800 standing) comes to a gross of £520,000 with that being reduced by V.A.T. to just over £433,000. Add to that the solidarity payments which as an EFL 1 club are a decent amount ,together with the much increased sponsorship of stands , stadium etc etc and it would be surprising if funds are running short in November.

[redrobo]

Begs the question as to how much our owner is taking back after his / their investment and if as I suspect it is a considerable amount each month then is it any wonder that we are short of available cash to provide DA with some pennies for him to wheel and deal in the up coming transfer window...

The sooner the club is sold to the benefit of ALL parties the better because until this is resolved the financial situation can only get worse.

[captain sparkle]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, or indeed is just common knowledge to everyone (but me!),
but what happens to the season ticket money?
is it dripfed throughout the season?
has it all gone already?
Will there be a nightmare scenario on a cold, wet & windy Tuesday night in early February where there are just a handful of paying spectators & the rest are season ticket holders?

[Gone_Shrimping]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, or indeed is just common knowledge to everyone (but me!),
but what happens to the season ticket money?
is it dripfed throughout the season?
has it all gone already?
Will there be a nightmare scenario on a cold, wet & windy Tuesday night in early February where there are just a handful of paying spectators & the rest are season ticket holders?

A very good question. If we ever have another Fans' Forum it would be a good question for the admin side of the club. Accrington's chairman produces some very detailed information of income at matches and he includes 1/23 of the season ticket money as income for an EFL game. Whether that means they have a "ring-fenced" account for season ticket money that they take 1/23 out of it every game is not clear. They probably do so that they don't have to pay over a huge whack of V.A.T. in the Summer and just account for it on a match by match basis which would help cash flow.

[Morecambe Jack]

I think HMRC might object slightly to that. VAT can't be deferred to a point where you decide you want to recognise the income, it is charged at point of sale. Andy Holt might defer the net income over the season for his own internal accounting purposes, but the VAT will go straight to HMRC on the next return.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I think HMRC might object slightly to that. VAT can't be deferred to a point where you decide you want to recognise the income, it is charged at point of sale. Andy Holt might defer the net income over the season for his own internal accounting purposes, but the VAT will go straight to HMRC on the next return.

I am fully aware of V.A.T. laws etc , I've been on enough training courses etc on V.A.T. over the years to understand them although the sale of season tickets for football clubs never ever came up on any of the courses !

V.A.T is usually paid over at the point of sale. It could be argued that the league matches consist of 23 different points of sale. Maybe the season ticket money is held in a sort of clients account until each match takes place and then 1/23 of it is transferred over into the club bank account. This would also remove the possibility of a club splurging all the season ticket money on say big money signings in August and then running short of cash.

[RedRedWine]

Payment of VAT is based on the tax point. Under the standard VAT scheme, the Tax point is receipt of cash or whenever the sale is deemed to have taken place - whichever comes first.

[Gone_Shrimping]

I think HMRC might object slightly to that. VAT can't be deferred to a point where you decide you want to recognise the income, it is charged at point of sale. Andy Holt might defer the net income over the season for his own internal accounting purposes, but the VAT will go straight to HMRC on the next return.

Probably just as well then if the £86 k was paid over to HMRC in July or August with all that was going on at Worcester Warriors !

[redrobo]

Wonder how much it would cost a certain EFL club to get some Morocco defenders on board....