Do the right and honourable thing and resign

[redrobo]

This getting tiresome....isn't it...

DA is stubborn and will not or can't change his style and belief in how the game should be played.

We've had a season of poor results and relegation is on the cards.

For me we need a complete change in style and approach...but I can also understand why a growing number (on SVs) take an opposite view.....

Football is about opinions .....long may it continue that way.

[Little Shrimp]

DA is stubborn and will not or can't change his style and belief in how the game should be played.

See this is where your argument falls apart.

We know what Derek's preferred style is, we saw it in our promotion season. It's being happy enough to concede possession, and countering on the opposition after poaching it in midfield. And when we do build from the back, be direct and move the ball forward with speed, not afraid of a long ball if necessary. We created the most chances in League Two, and were one of the highest goalscorers. We also conceded a bucket load considering our position.

We've rarely seen that this season. Recently, we've seen much more of the ball than you'd expect but also very little incisiveness or chance creation. Everything we know about Derek tells us that this is not his preferred way to play football.

Yep, he's got some calls wrong, but the struggle this season has been trying to mould a squad into his style, being unable to due to financial restrictions, then trying to find compromises that get the best out of what we have. This isn't about his inherent/preferred style at all.

[Catte]

As always from the outside looking in, and Morecambe are the first result I look for after being at the Wanderers game or catching up remotely...

Stockton has not helped for whatever reason his head has been elsewhere most of the season, and has not done himself any favours (poorly advised). Phillips injury scuppered some of the more attacking plans, just when they were reaping rewards.

The lad Hunter I really rate and thought we might have been interested, I see him as a number 10 behind a conventional striker. It is a difficult role and requires arrogance and discipline, sometimes you have to believe your team mates will get the ball back and feed it to you, at the moment I think his youth is against him and he goes searching for the ball, but then he is out of position and should be receiving the ball not supplying. He has the quality but perhaps lacks the belief that the ball will come, in a side that does not have the majority of possession it is easy to slip into go and get mode rather than seek space and wait mode.

Good luck hope we have not riled Plymouth up too much. They may be questioning their own qualities at the moment.

[BerlinWaller]

DA is stubborn and will not or can't change his style and belief in how the game should be played.

See this is where your argument falls apart.

We know what Derek's preferred style is, we saw it in our promotion season. It's being happy enough to concede possession, and countering on the opposition after poaching it in midfield. And when we do build from the back, be direct and move the ball forward with speed, not afraid of a long ball if necessary. We created the most chances in League Two, and were one of the highest goalscorers. We also conceded a bucket load considering our position.

We've rarely seen that this season. Recently, we've seen much more of the ball than you'd expect but also very little incisiveness or chance creation. Everything we know about Derek tells us that this is not his preferred way to play football.

Yep, he's got some calls wrong, but the struggle this season has been trying to mould a squad into his style, being unable to due to financial restrictions, then trying to find compromises that get the best out of what we have. This isn't about his inherent/preferred style at all.

Again it is a lazy dig at Derek and one that he has just picked up from other fans about Derek's style. If you are going to start threads such as this, make sure you have an argument in place to back it up. Starting reactionary threads doesn't help anyone even though it turned in to a decent discussion through other peoples contributions.

[Wild Bill]

This whole thread is a bit pointless given our current predicament. We won't change the manager without a new owner., unless its to handover to one of the coaches already employed by the club. However if someone comes in with a bit of money behind them they may decide to make a change. This puts Derek in a near impossible situation.

Derek isn't the most outgoing guy and struggles to put himself across in the media. He is though a very knowledgeable football man and an old school gent. If the players are still on his side then we still have a chance.

Whether you are pro-Derek or against him, we really should just get behind the team and really give everything in the next few matches. If we manage to win 3-4 games we might just stay up. Being in L1 for another season might just bring out a decent potential owner. We can only hope.

[Keith]

The two upfront solves all our problems arguement is tiresome and if only winning games was that simple. As LS states, if you put two up front you have to lose a man from somewhere else. We aren't good enough at this level to lose a third man out of the midfield and 3 5 2 is easily counter acted. Derek has been far more attacking this season but he has a striker who has all but downed tools and a young midfied trying to get in and around him. Hunter and Taylor have been injured and our brightest hope has been an 18yr old kid. Crowley was a roll of the dice and has probably caused more problems than it solved. We can go on and on but just putting it down to not playing 4 4 f@cking 2 is pretty short sighted and lazy.

I don't know why I'm bothering to answer you. With Little Shrimp and others, it is possible to have an adult discussion, sharing opinions, and disagreeing, without words like "tiresome" and "not playing 4 4 f@cking 2 is pretty short sighted and lazy", so I'll respond now but, as you are clearly a wind-up merchant, who, agreed you 'never have anything positive to contribute', I will not get drawn in to another petty bickering session, as I did recently (for which I share equal blame).

The point you fail to acknowledge, and dismiss as 'tiresome', 'short-sighted' & 'lazy' is, it had been working during our mini-revival, and, the alternative has consistently failed. You don't explain why, Nor do you ever suggest anything other than carrying on with the same? If you are able to discuss football, in a manner that respects other people's opinion, then fine. If you come back with snide comments, or bickering, I'll leave you alone.

Perhaps Hunter was instructed to stay forward but got frustrated as the ball wasn't reaching him? Maybe the logic was to have two attacking mids hover in-between the lines but they kept on dropping deeper with the flow of the game? Should Weir, Shaw and Bedeau not have taken a bit more ownership on the ball to progress it to Crowley and Hunter in more dangerous/attacking areas? They've certainly got the ability to do so.

The assumption throughout football is to blame basically everything that happens on the pitch on the manager. But it's rarely that simple, and for all we know Derek had told Crowley and Hunter to hang around closer to Stockton but they got frustrated and dropped deeper as the game progressed.

On two up top, there's an argument that having an extra forward in there can help stretch the defence. On the flip side, it takes away a creative midfielder, and can be a bit predictable (Derek has highlighted this as his issue with two up top, and Robbo said similar about 3-5-2) as you're just hitting two frontmen. Can be comfortable enough for a deep sitting defence to deal with. It's not exactly illogical to think that having your two most creative midfielders buzzing around in the side might be the way to unlock a team.

I agree with everything you are saying, and, on paper, the line-up looks like it should be creative and attacking. And yes, there is only so much the manager can control once the players are on the pitch. But, if the players consistently fail to follow the manager's instructions, game after game, then the manager takes responsibility, in my opinion. If the two attacking midfielders are getting in the box and creating for each other, then I don't think we'd be in this position. Do the supportive midfielders do their job correctly? Probably not.

The real difference of opinion comes down to, I don't think removing a creative midfielder to play two up front, would be a problem, because currently, the midfielders aren't creating in the first place. I've not looked at all the games recently, but when I did recently, it was clear that Love is our most creative player. If there is a website that has them, I suspect that Love has more assists than Gibson, and I'm sure he has more goals.

We may as well have tried a formation that worked at the start of the year, rather than one that has failed throughout. Unfortunately, I think the ship has sailed, because that was needed in the crucial Cambridge, Oxford, FGR & Milton Keynes games. Two up front against the better teams will be much more difficult.

[Little Shrimp]

In fairness, I think 'four four f@cking two' is a reference to the Mike Bassett: England Manager film! "Ladies and gentlemen, England will be playing four, four, f@cking two."

But, if the players consistently fail to follow the manager's instructions, game after game, then the manager takes responsibility, in my opinion.

It's not entirely unreasonable to think that, but while it may be your opinion you do have to admit it's a very blurry line between manager/play responsibility with something like this. To come down firmly on it being the manager's fault when you've not really got any idea what's being said (or not said) isn't really fair.

The real difference of opinion comes down to, I don't think removing a creative midfielder to play two up front, would be a problem, because currently, the midfielders aren't creating in the first place. I've not looked at all the games recently, but when I did recently, it was clear that Love is our most creative player. If there is a website that has them, I suspect that Love has more assists than Gibson, and I'm sure he has more goals.

We may as well have tried a formation that worked at the start of the year, rather than one that has failed throughout. Unfortunately, I think the ship has sailed, because that was needed in the crucial Cambridge, Oxford, FGR & Milton Keynes games. Two up front against the better teams will be much more difficult.

Two up front against the better teams isn't necessarily easier or more difficult, it'll be more difficult just because they're better teams, regardless of formation. But it's a fair point that we've missed the 'key' games on paper to get good results against. Would have to be pretty monumental now, although worth saying our final three games (possibly more) are against sides with nothing to play for.

The point you've missed here though is we're missing the key component from the start of the year, as many have pointed out, in Kieran Phillips! His ability to both stretch defences and drop-in to link up play, as well as dynamic movement in the final third, was massively important. Losing him was an absolute nightmare.

Could Mellon up top with Stockton have been given more of a chance? Or maybe Gnahoua, or Watts? Perhaps, and I would have liked to have seen Derek give it a bit more of a go against Peterborough or Fleetwood, but without Phillips the argument for 3-5-2 is not compelling enough for me to really go against Derek like you have.

Imo our best look since Phillips's departure was against Bolton with Weir back in the 10 spot and Crowley out wide with Love overlapping, and Gibson sitting in midfield. Was a car crash against Cambridge though, although perhaps that was tired legs?

[Keith]

I see him as a number 10 behind a conventional striker. It is a difficult role and requires arrogance and discipline, sometimes you have to believe your team mates will get the ball back and feed it to you, at the moment I think his youth is against him and he goes searching for the ball, but then he is out of position and should be receiving the ball not supplying. He has the quality but perhaps lacks the belief that the ball will come, in a side that does not have the majority of possession it is easy to slip into go and get mode rather than seek space and wait mode.

This is how I'd prefer to see him, with the instruction to stay further forwards, and let the other be the water carriers. But, as you say, some of that comes down to experience too.

The point you've missed here though is we're missing the key component from the start of the year, as many have pointed out, in Kieran Phillips! His ability to both stretch defences and drop-in to link up play, as well as dynamic movement in the final third, was massively important. Losing him was an absolute nightmare.

Could Mellon up top with Stockton have been given more of a chance? Or maybe Gnahoua, or Watts? Perhaps, and I would have liked to have seen Derek give it a bit more of a go against Peterborough or Fleetwood, but without Phillips the argument for 3-5-2 is not compelling enough for me to really go against Derek like you have.

Imo our best look since Phillips's departure was against Bolton with Weir back in the 10 spot and Crowley out wide with Love overlapping, and Gibson sitting in midfield. Was a car crash against Cambridge though, although perhaps that was tired legs?

I do acknowledge, losing Phillips was a massive blow. As has been 'losing' Stockton for 90% of the season.

Don't get me wrong, as I said earlier, I'm 'on the fence' with Derek, and I wouldn't be upset if it was announced today, that he'd signed a 12-month contract extension, in fact, I'd be quite pleased, as he's proven at League Two level, so a good manager to have, and if he manages to keep us up this season, then he deserves it! Although, with the club ownership in chaos once more, why would he?

And, while it is increasingly unlikely, I haven't entirely given up hope yet. We've got six games in five weeks. Other teams having games in hand over us, may actually be an advantage to us. Both Charlton & Lincoln play on the Tuesday, before us, the following Saturday. Accrington & Oxford both have eight games in five weeks. If we can turn up against teams that have nothing to play for, with tired legs thrown in, and knowing, we really, really must win, who knows? Could three wins be enough?

[redrobo]

Cole has been a huge disappointment...BUT for me an even bigger loss has been Tooms who with loanees in midfield his guidance would have proved invaluable to those around him.

Legs might have gone but his positional sense and an eye for a killer pass could have helped Cole get on the score sheet more as he suffered from the loss of both Tooms and Aaron Wildig.

What do others think....

[Andy D]

Cole has been a huge disappointment...BUT for me an even bigger loss has been Tooms who with loanees in midfield his guidance would have proved invaluable to those around him.

Legs might have gone but his positional sense and an eye for a killer pass could have helped Cole get on the score sheet more as he suffered from the loss of both Tooms and Aaron Wildig.

What do others think....

100%

a central midfield of Weir Toums Shaw with Toums in a Anchor role.

[mrpotatohead]

So Derek should go because he had no money to spend on midfielders and had to borrow them , or to pay stockton over the odds to stop him sulking ?

[black morse]

I think the majority of us on here understand the real problems Derek has had, sympathise with him and support him.

[Andy D]

Derek has done miracles with us, i just wished he’d kept Toums, ok his legs were going but he could of just sat in midfield and organised things, he’s was a leader.

[jbc.shrimp]

Derek has done miracles with us, i just wished he’d kept Toums, ok his legs were going but he could of just sat in midfield and organised things, he’s was a leader.

Talking of miracles, there is one more D.A. could perform, show some bloody passion. All through the game today we in the main stand could hear the Argyle manager shouting at his players. What did D.A do, just stand there arms folded. If we are to be relegated at least show you care.

[black morse]

Derek has done miracles with us, i just wished he’d kept Toums, ok his legs were going but he could of just sat in midfield and organised things, he’s was a leader.

Talking of miracles, there is one more D.A. could perform, show some bloody passion. All through the game today we in the main stand could hear the Argyle manager shouting at his players. What did D.A do, just stand there arms folded. If we are to be relegated at least show you care.

Seem to remember Jim Bentley was the same towards the end.

[Andy D]

Well L1 as been an experience, at least we've been there and had a bash.

[BerlinWaller]

A bit unfair this. I saw Derek almost run down the touchline in the 2nd half when Soare was on the floor and he went mental after the Crowley offside. He could have made changes earlier for me but digging him out for lack of passion is a cheap dig.

[broadwayshrimp]

Talking of miracles, there is one more D.A. could perform, show some bloody passion.

Don't think Brian Clough showed much passion on the touchline and he wasn't a bad manager from memory.
It's not all about ranting and raving.