Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

[thedoc]

You literally could have sent private messages to the Trust but you didn't.
You posted this to the whole world.
I know that people on the Trust are having 2nd thoughts now about what they do.
This is a sad day

It is indeed a sad day when people like you publish `to the whole world’ the first thing that comes into their heads when they don’t like whatever it happens to be – the weather; Pop Tarts; the Prime Minister’s haircut or – in this case, an article you don’t like but don’t tell anyone on this forum or elsewhere exactly why not.

What on earth do you know about my communications with the Shrimps Trust? For your information, I have sent private messages to the Shrimps Trust seeking – and sharing - information in the past. But these are `private’ – DOH! - so that’s why the World and his Wife don’t know anything about them. I expect them to contact me – as I have suggested in my article – again on this occasion: they have my email address, after all.

However, you should know that I wrote a piece on my blog prior to the meeting we are discussing here which I also published – to use your own expression `to the whole world’.

I don’t remember you complaining about that then. So why are you doing so now?

Are you suggesting that I should have my articles vetted by the Trust prior to publication – like the Politburo in Albania did when Chairman Hoxha (pronounced `Hodger’) was in charge?

Is that it?: Chairman Hodgy and his clique suddenly doesn’t approve of what the proletariat are saying without Official Approval?

Well I’m really sorry if I’ve failed to toe the Party Line on this occasion and have upset the applecart. I would respectfully suggest that the responses on these pages alone indicate that I am not alone in thinking that the Trust could do with kick up the fundament - whether you like it or not.

Do you have a version of the KGB, Hoxha’s Sigurimi or East Germany’s Stazi?

Can I expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night from them now – or in the future if I don’t start writing things that you personally would be more comfortable with?

If you spent even half as much time as you have today endlessly whingeing on this forum and Faceflannel actually considering the criticism of the Shrimps Trust and its inaction about all sorts of issues which Morecambe supporters would like you to actually address, maybe things might improve.

But just sulking about it and throwing your toys out of the pram doesn’t help anybody...

[Keith]

Okay folks, this is an important, and emotive subject, with different ideas & points of view, but let's please keep it civil and not personal, or the debate will go nowhere.

[Keith]

The Trust has always let its MEMBERS know what they are doing. Nothing has changed Keith

The last Trust meeting with the Board, according to The Trust website, was April of last year and the last monthly meeting was also more than a year ago? Obviously, there is a lot of frustration, for all of us, regarding the farcical ownership issue, and we need to be doing 'something', even if that is simply creating publicity.

[Hodgie1978]

The Trust has always let its MEMBERS know what they are doing. Nothing has changed Keith

The last Trust meeting with the Board, according to The Trust website, was April of last year and the last monthly meeting was also more than a year ago? Obviously, there is a lot of frustration, for all of us, regarding the farcical ownership issue, and we need to be doing 'something', even if that is simply creating publicity.

Yeah the Website isn't the best as we know it's an erea that we have to improve. Think we've asked for help in that department. We do try to up date every member with emails sent. The Shrimps Trusts podcasts and we now have an article in the Lancaster guardian/the Visitor..
As for replying to the Doc
It was far to long for a reply and I got bored. This probably explains why he only has 6 people that read his match reports.

[black morse]

As said in an earlier post we are at a stage where we need to be working together...fans, trust and board. There's bound to be disagreements as to how to proceed as we are all frustrated with the time the ownership situation is taking to get resolved. However, whatever action is decided it must be based on facts...and we are short of those at the moment.

I thought the meeting between the Trust and the Board in April gave us some of those facts and the notes produced after that meeting were a bit encouraging but that was nearly 4 months ago and we really do need an update.

(1) Is Sarb now out of the equation?
(2) Is there anyone else still interested in taking over the club?
Answers to those questions would allow us to focus on possible actions to take. I do understand that if there are interested parties there may well be reasons why information relating to that is not freely available but simple yes or no to question 2 would help.

[vvm]

I'm not terrible at web design, how could I go about volunteering to help with the website?

[thedoc]

As for replying to the Doc
It was far to long for a reply and I got bored. This probably explains why he only has 6 people that read his match reports.

Ouch!

I'm quite upset by this - I thought there were 7!!!!!

[Tubshrimp]

Firstly - this is me personally, not representative of the trust in anyway shape or form.



I enjoy the energy that’s here and the passion for the postiing on here - however, for me you need to deal in the realities of trying to affect what you can change about the situation, rather than complain about an unachievable goal.

Trust ownership of the club

Brilliant, yes, you won’t get a bigger advocate than I for having a significant stake in the club and a seat on the board. Jason was willing to sell for 5 million quid. Now, even if we go on the believed value of the club, somewhere between 500k-2million dependent on who you ask (and let’s be truthful here - it’s worth whatever someone’s willing to buy it for and sell it for and nothing else) - that’s every single member of the trust putting in 500 quid and then probably another 500 quid a year to cover the losses. Roger is wondering whether it’s a good idea giving the trust a tenner - he did, and his support is appreciated.

Trust ownership is something that traditionally happens in an insolvency event when you get the club for a quid and a percentage of a massive debt that you service. Without the club being in such a scenario, it is incredibly hard for Trust ownership to happen due to the logistics I’ve explained above, unless you have a massive benefactor who’s won the lottery or something similar.

The whole point of the trust in the short term when it was established was that we a) we have a legal body that can step in if an insolvency event happens (which was a fair possibility at the time), and b) have expertise ready to go and step in should it happen.

The main lynchpin on the board is a director at a multi-million pound accountancy firm, and we have over 20k in the bank. We have relationships with numerous local businesses that would offer professional services in such an insolvency event. Thankfully this looks as far away as any scenario for a very long time due to the excellent work of the BOD and members of the trust board. A special mention here for Jack Steer - the trust simply would not be where it is today (and Stuart before him). He is a brilliant talented young man who works far too hard for very little praise and someone I am personally in awe of whenever I’ve worked with him in the trust. I will remember the meeting with Johal and Whittingham for some time.

If you and others would like to start a fundraising effort to have a fund ready to potentially buy the club, I am sure that the trust would put its name to it and let you and fulwoodshrimp run that particular effort. You have my vote.

Organising a march that we had to organise and contacting the Worcester MP.

The Worcester MP has no jurisdiction over Morecambe. I mentioned at the meeting - march for what? About how Whittingham had legally taken a load of money out? About a young man that has literally vanished? Make him sell the club that he already wants to sell? Or just march because we’re angry we’ve been relegated? The BOD has done everything they can, alongside the trust, to ensure that any sale goes to an owner that will run the club benevolently, what more can we ask for? That Whittingham just gives it away because he’s a massive fan of Morecambe FC? Again - let’s focus on what we can do, not what isn’t in the real world.

The trust appears to be an amateur damp squib with no purpose or direction.

I’ve got to try to not be really pissed off here. In the last year the trust have helped sponsor the women’s team, helped raise money for ground improvements, organised a number of functions, run coaches for away travel, chased Sarbjot Johal around the country, run a popular podcast with the club that has trust news weekly, and run an open meeting trying to get over what we know and what we can do - and done hundreds of hours of free work for the club to improve the place. I don’t know what else you’d like to see. Apologies to other trust members for the hard work they've done that I’ve missed.

Frequent requests for volunteers fall on deaf ears, the socials are the same people every time and not attended if we lose, the election details have been pumped everywhere and we don’t appear to have a Ken H on the ballot to show us how it’s done.

I will concede the trust could have been better in asking for specific help rather than help generally. If elected, I will work to improve this.

Meetings not at the Mazuma.

Most of them are. Almost all of our functions are. However - we are an INDEPENDENT trust, and the trust felt that we needed separation from the club and its ownership, and to also give club employees the chance to attend so it gave them separation from their employer to air grievances. None of the trust board are disabled, and the people organising getting a space didn’t think about it. We’re sorry, and it’ll be the first thing thought of next time. We are not perfect, and in this situation had to make decisions quickly to ensure to swift organisation of the meeting. I believe nominations are now closed but if elected, I’d dearly love to nominate someone to co-opt a representative for which these kinds of issues are their mandate.

Lastly - when I stood up at Morecambe cricket club back in 2017, I was absolutely shitting myself, not knowing what the hell I was doing but just passionate to make sure that the club had something to still keep trading if the worst came, and it nearly did. Since then, the trust have run with that under excellent leadership and with people putting hours and hours of free work into the trust, exceeding everything I thought it might be under the various leaderships along with the people who have been involved. Nearly half the season ticket base are members due to excellent work of everyone that’s put their hand up, and hopefully we will go over 1000 this year. It’s really not easy putting yourself up to do open meetings and stand for election. It’s not nice, your imposter syndrome goes crazy and all you get is grief for not doing enough, or grief for liking the sound of your own voice - but you keep going as you want the club to be in a better place.

If are not happy, please stand for election – or contact one of the trust directly – I am very much available for a call when you like.

Rich.

[black morse]

Great work Rich. Balanced, informative and non combatant. It clarified a few things for me. Thanks.

[fulwoodshrimp]

Please let’s stop squabbling. We all want the same thing- a successful club. Perhaps if the Trust can organise another meeting to discuss what we as fans can do? Also can I correct Rich- I have never suggested buying the club! I wish I could! My suggestion was to raise some money so that we could help the Manager if need be in the transfer window in January. As fans We need to do something to halt the decline in our club. I appreciate the work of the Trust and our directors but as fans I think we can also help. We are better and stronger if we work together and use our energies and direct our passion towards saving our club rather than squabbling amongst ourselves.

[Tubshrimp]

Please let’s stop squabbling. We all want the same thing- a successful club. Perhaps if the Trust can organise another meeting to discuss what we as fans can do? Also can I correct Rich- I have never suggested buying the club! I wish I could! My suggestion was to raise some money so that we could help the Manager if need be in the transfer window in January. As fans We need to do something to halt the decline in our club. I appreciate the work of the Trust and our directors but as fans I think we can also help. We are better and stronger if we work together and use our energies and direct our passion towards saving our club rather than squabbling amongst ourselves.

I am more than happy at the first meeting to raise a motion to co-opt you to run this for the trust should I be elected.

[vvm]

How much money would we have to raise to support the manager in a transfer window? I'd imagine quite a lot so I'm not sure that's entirely realistic.

[fulwoodshrimp]

It’s a good question vvm and obviously we would need to speak to Rod about this and also the manager but I was thinking around 25-30 k. I would hope that would bring a player in for remainder of season from January. I just think we need to do something especially if we are struggling on the pitch.

[Tubshrimp]

It’s a good question vvm and obviously we would need to speak to Rod about this and also the manager but I was thinking around 25-30 k. I would hope that would bring a player in for remainder of season from January. I just think we need to do something especially if we are struggling on the pitch.

The average salary of a League 2 player is around 50-70k a year.

[black morse]

It’s a good question vvm and obviously we would need to speak to Rod about this and also the manager but I was thinking around 25-30 k. I would hope that would bring a player in for remainder of season from January. I just think we need to do something especially if we are struggling on the pitch.

I could donate 10k.

[Gone_Shrimping]

When the pandemic was on the club did a "Crowdfunder" appeal which raised something like £25,000 to £30,000.

Maybe one of those nearer to January ?

[fulwoodshrimp]

Those last 2 posts make me think we could help if the initiative got the club’s support. I certainly sense a determination to do what we can to support our great club.

[Hodgie1978]

When the club announced cheap season tickets for the first time. The Trust did a crowd fund page to raise money for families that couldn't afford tickets. Think about 3k was raised in days so it shows that fans would get involved.

[Keith]

Organising a march that we had to organise and contacting the Worcester MP.

The Worcester MP has no jurisdiction over Morecambe. I mentioned at the meeting - march for what? About how Whittingham had legally taken a load of money out? About a young man that has literally vanished? Make him sell the club that he already wants to sell? Or just march because we’re angry we’ve been relegated?

I supported a 'march' of some sort, including contact with the Worcester MP, because, at the time, we were witnessing the destruction of the rugby club, and it would highlight what unscrupulous owners were doing in sport. I would have liked to see us lobbying the Minister for Culture, Media & Sport, who does have real power, and bring pressure on the EFL. Worcester Warriors are no longer in the media spotlight, and the EFL continue to do nothing at all. Without publicity, we have nothing. Obviously, Whittingham would ignore us, we have no power in that sense, but if [for example] The Minister suddenly had questions being asked by the BBC (or whoever) and in turn, put pressure on the EFL, then we may see an end to the current farce.

Meetings not at the Mazuma.

None of the trust board are disabled, and the people organising getting a space didn’t think about it.

Just to be clear, I did ask a board member directly, prior to the event, whether it was wheelchair accessible, and I was told that it definitely was.

We’re sorry, and it’ll be the first thing thought of next time. We are not perfect, and in this situation had to make decisions quickly to ensure to swift organisation of the meeting. I believe nominations are now closed but if elected, I’d dearly love to nominate someone to co-opt a representative for which these kinds of issues are their mandate.

Obviously, my geographic location isn't ideal for actively being involved in the Trust, however, in the absence of anyone else, I would be willing to offer my services as a 'disability liaison' or whatever grand title someone comes up with, if you think it is worthwhile?

[Tubshrimp]

Meetings not at the Mazuma.

None of the trust board are disabled, and the people organising getting a space didn’t think about it.

Just to be clear, I did ask a board member directly, prior to the event, whether it was wheelchair accessible, and I was told that it definitely was.

Yes, I know. We then thought it was, and then realised it wasn't, and with so little time to sort it we were basically snookered. To be political about it "Valuable lessons have been learned". Like I say, with any future meeting, I think it'll be points 1,2 and 3 when sorting it out. There's only so long we can apologise for it really.

We’re sorry, and it’ll be the first thing thought of next time. We are not perfect, and in this situation had to make decisions quickly to ensure to swift organisation of the meeting. I believe nominations are now closed but if elected, I’d dearly love to nominate someone to co-opt a representative for which these kinds of issues are their mandate.

Obviously, my geographic location isn't ideal for actively being involved in the Trust, however, in the absence of anyone else, I would be willing to offer my services as a 'disability liaison' or whatever grand title someone comes up with, if you think it is worthwhile?[/quote]

Anyone would think that might be what one was angling for Mr Fitton............

I'll drop you a line privately.

[thedoc]

I supported a 'march' of some sort, including contact with the Worcester MP, because, at the time, we were witnessing the destruction of the rugby club, and it would highlight what unscrupulous owners were doing in sport. I would have liked to see us lobbying the Minister for Culture, Media & Sport, who does have real power, and bring pressure on the EFL. Worcester Warriors are no longer in the media spotlight, and the EFL continue to do nothing at all. Without publicity, we have nothing. Obviously, Whittingham would ignore us, we have no power in that sense, but if [for example] The Minister suddenly had questions being asked by the BBC (or whoever) and in turn, put pressure on the EFL, then we may see an end to the current farce.

Amen to that. The response to the hoo-hah on here written by Rich; Tub or however he likes to be known is the first sensible thing I have seen anyone with any connection to the Shrimps Trust publish on social media concerning it. Hats Off to him for doing so. I have asked him separately to email me a response to the article I posted on my blog yesterday which - instead of Shooting the Messenger - actually addresses the issues I have raised in it. I've promised him I will publish what he writes in full and discuss with him anything I might like to add before posting it. Preferably, I would like to say nothing at all but it would be good for all fans (not just Trust members) to be able to have their say about this - as I suggested in my original article. Ideally, this should be done via the Trusts' own website but given that such a thing doesn't seem likely at least in the short term, maybe we could do it on here and on Facebook.

[Tubshrimp]

Roger, as I say, I’ve offered you my number for a chat. I’ll not be getting involved in some kind of keyboard warrior off. In normal circumstances I’d catch up with you tomorrow but I’m with a work function and with my family.

Have a lovely weekend and enjoy the game at the weekend

[Zip It Shrimpy]

Tubshrimp mentions that Jason was willing to sell for £5million. I think I heard somewhere it was as much as £20million but I could also believe Tubshrimp's valuation of under £2million.

Let's assume Jason is still looking for £5million for his 80% shareholding, that values the club at £6million so each 1% would cost the Trust £60,000 to buy.

Someone said that the co-Chairmen and other Board members have about 3% so to get a seat on the Board won't cost much when shared amongst some willing Trust members.

I'd recommend using a fractional share model amongst fans to buy fractions of a share in units of £10 each recorded so the fans can sell on their fractions if they need their cash back. I'd be surprised if we can't raise 1% to buy off Jason.

Jason doesn't need 80% shareholding so could be happy to offload a few percent at a favourable rate. He just needs 51% to offer to a potential new owner.

The Trust could have a market stall style of tent near the ticket office on match days to interact with fans and sell fractional shares at £10 each. When there's enough cash collected buy another half or one percent from Jason and so on.

There's a lot of ifs and buts here but this could be the outline of a working model to get the club into fan ownership.

Please critique if you've got experience in this model. Supporters Trust - if this makes sense, please discuss at your next meeting and report back. I'd be happy to attend your meeting if it'd help.

[thedoc]

Roger, as I say, I’ve offered you my number for a chat. I’ll not be getting involved in some kind of keyboard warrior off. In normal circumstances I’d catch up with you tomorrow but I’m with a work function and with my family.

Have a lovely weekend and enjoy the game at the weekend

First thing to say is: you haven’t offered me your number for a cosy (and by definition secret) chat, which is not a good start is it?

As far as the rest of your comments are concerned, I think there are two ways to take them.

One way is to see what you have written as an instruction of the Royal Warrant variety. It announces that you expect me – at the drop of a hat and at your beck and call – to abandon all my usual match day arrangements at the last minute in order to accommodate a conversation with you. Delusions of grandeur, Your Majesty – or wot? I have a match day routine which involves other people who are important to me; whose friendship I value and whose companionship I appreciate. I also had to work prior to the game – and I need the money, mate.

However, I’m going to ignore that interpretation and take your invitation for what I think it is meant to be: the offer of an Olive Branch in a discussion which has – all too predictably, sadly - become far too fraught at times.

Having said that, I don’t think this is helped by something else you have written. I have absolutely no interest in `some sort of keyboard warrior off’ either – and I don’t understand why you keep on repeating this particularly unhelpful Mantra.

What I would like you to do is simply tell all of us and on the record precisely what it is you dispute about what I wrote in the article this strand is concerned with – and why. Then you and I can talk about it at a mutually convenient time - and everyone else can add to the often excellent suggestions that this sorry saga has produced as a positive by-product of the pathetic fire and the fury which the Usual Suspects have generated so far. I think you have my email address – if not, please send me a private message either on this forum or on Facebook and I will send it to you.

I hope you had a wonderful time with the Rellies yesterday - genuinely. The match, by the way, was fascinating – and the result even better...

[Tubshrimp]

More than happy to send you my number privately if you’d like to arrange a call. Just reach out to me.

I’ve always believed that 3 or more emails is a phone call or a meeting - I don’t see this is any different.