Morecambe FC [potential] points deduction.

[Potted Shrimp]

Link to story:

https://www.morecambefc.com/news/2023/a ... I2ZckLOhtg

Desperately, desperately worrying.

[Old Man Kensey]

I cannot see the current owner putting 125% of the monthly wage bill into an account any time soon.

[Old Man Kensey]

So reading that statement. If we put the money into an account and no more monthly wages are missed, then we don't start next season on -3 points.

We really need a buyer for the club and soon. Jason isn't going to come up with the cash to sit in an account, and starting on -3 points won't effect him.

[marky No.1]

So reading that statement. If we put the money into an account and no more monthly wages are missed, then we don't start next season on -3 points.

We really need a buyer for the club and soon. Jason isn't going to come up with the cash to sit in an account, and starting on -3 points won't effect him.

Is it not 3 points knocked off at the end of this season, the date is when our contracts run out, not very clear either way?

[black morse]

So reading that statement. If we put the money into an account and no more monthly wages are missed, then we don't start next season on -3 points.

We really need a buyer for the club and soon. Jason isn't going to come up with the cash to sit in an account, and starting on -3 points won't effect him.

Is it not 3 points knocked off at the end of this season, the date is when our contracts run out, not very clear either way?

I think you're right Marky. Maybe that was the reason for Jason's appearance the other night.

[redrobo]

Not totally unexpected.

I suspect the club had prior warning of this as has happened elsewhere and hence one of the reasons why Jason as at the club.

Does that guarantee have to be into the account by Jason if not then surely the fans could organize a fund raiser to raise the money as we did some seasons ago for Jumbo... albeit a somewhat larger amount this time.

Any idea what figures we are talking about.

I'd gladly give £50 to get it started.

MY CLUB.....MY TOWN.....

[marky No.1]

Is it not 3 points knocked off at the end of this season, the date is when our contracts run out, not very clear either way?

I think you're right Marky. Maybe that was the reason for Jason's appearance the other night.

Does seem quite a coincidence

[marky No.1]

Not totally unexpected.

I suspect the club had prior warning of this as has happened elsewhere and hence one of the reasons why Jason as at the club.

Does that guarantee have to be into the account by Jason if not then surely the fans could organize a fund raiser to raise the money as we did some seasons ago for Jumbo... albeit a somewhat larger amount this time.

Any idea what figures we are talking about.

I'd gladly give £50 to get it started.

MY CLUB.....MY TOWN.....

If you can find another 2500 people to pay the same amount then good luck.

[redrobo]

What is the monthly wage bill of our club

[black morse]

The system of points deduction for this rule breaking punishes the players, manager and fans. It does not punish the guilty!

[black morse]

There is no date on this announcement so we don't know when it was made. I assume that Jason was OK with it being put on the Morecambe website. I do sense something going on.

[Bare bum]

It's word for word from the EFL site.

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/august/21 ... ball-club/

and there is the detailed judgement

https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/gc-m ... 61e8ab.pdf

[Bare bum]

All staff costs 2022 (in league 1) £3,823,165

All staff costs 2021 (in league 2) £2,309,418

If we have an increase from 2021 in league 2 say £2,400,00. That's about £200,000 a month plus another £50,000 to make up the 125 per cent.

Can you spare any more redrobo?

[jbc.shrimp]

Not totally unexpected.

I suspect the club had prior warning of this as has happened elsewhere and hence one of the reasons why Jason as at the club.

Does that guarantee have to be into the account by Jason if not then surely the fans could organize a fund raiser to raise the money as we did some seasons ago for Jumbo... albeit a somewhat larger amount this time.

Any idea what figures we are talking about.

I'd gladly give £50 to get it started.

MY CLUB.....MY TOWN.....

Most fans couldn't afford that sort of money, but if possibly fans were to volunteer to take a home match weekly bucket collection on behalf of the trust with each interested fan giving one pound a home match. I have no idea of the figures involved but it would show intent of the fans wanting a larger stake in the club.

[Keith]

Most fans couldn't afford that sort of money, but if possibly fans were to volunteer to take a home match weekly bucket collection on behalf of the trust with each interested fan giving one pound a home match. I have no idea of the figures involved but it would show intent of the fans wanting a larger stake in the club.

If the fans raised £500,000 and the Trust bought a stake in the club, we would still have exactly the same influence as we have now. There may be value in fund-raising, but it wouldn't be to 'buy in' to the club, at this moment in time, as we'd just be donating our money to the pawn-brokers.

[redrobo]

Most fans couldn't afford that sort of money, but if possibly fans were to volunteer to take a home match weekly bucket collection on behalf of the trust with each interested fan giving one pound a home match. I have no idea of the figures involved but it would show intent of the fans wanting a larger stake in the club.

If the fans raised £500,000 and the Trust bought a stake in the club, we would still have exactly the same influence as we have now. There may be value in fund-raising, but it wouldn't be to 'buy in' to the club, at this moment in time, as we'd just be donating our money to the pawn-brokers.

Sorry Keith but you seem to suggest that whatever we do to protect OUR club financially would end up in the pockets of the Bond Group and as a result we should do 'sod all'......well sorry (again) but that is not acceptable. We all have a part to play in securing OUR club's future. Maybe you could come up with a suggestion as to what you think we should do.....

[KenH]

Most fans couldn't afford that sort of money, but if possibly fans were to volunteer to take a home match weekly bucket collection on behalf of the trust with each interested fan giving one pound a home match. I have no idea of the figures involved but it would show intent of the fans wanting a larger stake in the club.

If the fans raised £500,000 and the Trust bought a stake in the club, we would still have exactly the same influence as we have now. There may be value in fund-raising, but it wouldn't be to 'buy in' to the club, at this moment in time, as we'd just be donating our money to the pawn-brokers.

Sorry Keith but you seem to suggest that whatever we do to protect OUR club financially would end up in the pockets of the Bond Group and as a result we should do 'sod all'......well sorry (again) but that is not acceptable. We all have a part to play in securing OUR club's future. Maybe you could come up with a suggestion as to what you think we should do.....

No point in doing something that wouldn't achieve anything. If we were to go down the route of raising a lot of money, we'd need a definite goal/reason for doing it. It's insanity to raise a lot of money, buy some shares in MFC, and not actually have any more influence/power than we already have. Why would anyone buy into that and give away their hard earned money for, basically, nothing.

If we were going down the road of buying shares, then it has to be a large enough amount to buy a controlling shareholding, i.e. enough to buy out Jason & Co and get rid of him, leaving the trust with the controlling shareholding and power to run the club. We could only do that with Jason's agreement to actually sell his shares to the trust for an agreed amount of money. Now, if the trust and current directors could negotiate something like that, with a clear/beneficial end result, I'm sure the majority of fans would be supportive and would put plenty of money in, hopefully alongside some local business owners, perhaps in return for advertising/hospitality.

But I don't think many people at all would donate any serious money to the trust just to buy another minority shareholding that gives no power/influence at all. Yes, no doubt, you'd get a few buckets of coins and some notes on a match day (like for Jim's fine), but not the hundreds of thousands of pounds needed to "buy" any significant power/influence.

[SouthernFriedShrimp]

Unfortunately it does seem as though there’s very little we, as supporters, can do in this ‘points deduction’ situation.

The only thing I can think of is to somehow try to push forward the issue of the sale of the club to someone that fits the EFL criteria.

It does look to be a ‘relatively’ minor sanction - three points at the end of this season/start of next season. Which perhaps shows the EFL have some sympathy with ‘the club’ and the ownership situation we’re left in.
Also, it’s said to be an agreed decision, which implies the current owners have told the EFL they have the cash and that they’ll deposit it in this separate account.

Of course if the current owners don’t give a damn about the agreement they’ve made with the EFL, and are quite happy to let us lose the points at the end of the season, they’re just as likely to pocket any cash the supporters come up with to try to help.

Getting the club sold is pretty much the only way forward.

[Keith]

Sorry Keith but you seem to suggest that whatever we do to protect OUR club financially would end up in the pockets of the Bond Group and as a result we should do 'sod all'......well sorry (again) but that is not acceptable. We all have a part to play in securing OUR club's future. Maybe you could come up with a suggestion as to what you think we should do.....

Exactly as Ken says. Any minority shareholding will have zero impact upon the club. If, for example, there was a serviceable/manageable debt attached to the club, and we were able to purchase the club, and therefore the debt, for a peppercorn fee, (Chelsea was famously sold for £1 to Ken Bates) then there would be a good reason to fundraise for the club. In that situation, the Trust would be in control. Purchasing a minority shareholding is literally giving cash to Whittingham for zero return. Even if, for example, we raised £250k to place as the EFL wages bond, if Whittingham defaulted on wages, by keeping his £200k in his pocket, our money would go on wages, he's £200k better off, and the club still gets the three point deduction.

If we want to buy shares, as a collective, it must be as a controlling share holder, which is only likely in the event that we've gone in to administration, or, in the event of a new buyer, the Trust having a minority shareholding, with a guaranteed seat on the board for a Trust appointee.

[Keith]

I've edited the title to read "potential points deduction", to more accurately reflect the current situation. Let's all hope I never need to take that word back out.

[redrobo]

Sounds to me as though we should just sit back and do nothing and potentially see OUR club have a 3 point penalty imposed.

Still waiting to see what we as fans should do, but it would appear that some haven't a clue....

[marky No.1]

You never know, Jason might be down at Nat West now depositing £250K

[Phil Anderer]

Sounds to me as though we should just sit back and do nothing and potentially see OUR club have a 3 point penalty imposed.

Still waiting to see what we as fans should do, but it would appear that some haven't a clue....

I think you're being totally unfair there RR; it's quite clear to me that, currently there's nothing we can do except hope.

[Cisco Kid]

Sounds to me as though we should just sit back and do nothing and potentially see OUR club have a 3 point penalty imposed.

Still waiting to see what we as fans should do, but it would appear that some haven't a clue....

The simple truth is that there is little or nothing we can do. Actually the best thing IS to do nothing.

No matter how many times you state OUR club, the sad truth is that it isnt. Jason Whittingham owns the club and he can virtually do what he wants with it. Until he sells it to someone else, we are stuck with that and just need to hope he sells it to someone who actually wants to push it on with investment.

Even If you are successful and get another 5,000 fans to match your generous £50 donation (simple maths, but that is what is needed to get the £250k you aspire to, the last thing you should at this moment do is put it into the club or make it available to the club if wages are not paid. It would be tantamount to donating it straight to Jason.

Speaking of simple maths. If the wage bill is £200k a month all in, then how far does season ticket and gate money go towards that? Not far enough and the reason why we should buy the pies and pints on a matchday and not go elsewhere to save 50p a pint. The reason hospitality is so important to us. Why local sponsorship is vital. Why weddings and funerals are very much needed.

If you want to do something on a grand scale, raise as much as you can and then donate it to The Trust, just in case things do fall over and we are left high and dry. That is what the Trust was set up for in my eyes. Not a travel club or a discount club. Not to be lined up and shouted at, or criticised because they dont have answers to the inner workings of a private company. They are there to be ready and waiting to pick the peices up and support the fans in bad times. It would be amazing if you supported the Trust and did some fundraising, which is a lot harder than making grand gestures of throwing £50 in an imaginary bucket. The Trust need's doers.

One last thing I would offer is that the other thing you or we can do is trust Rod, Graham and Co. to do the right thing. They have so far and continue to do so while we are in limbo until Jason sells. Unfortunately it is HIS club.

[black morse]

I understand your frustration RR and I'm sure we all feel the same but what others say on here is absolutely right. I have said on here that I would willingly give thousands to the club but NOT if it was going to end up in Jason's pocket with no gain and certainly not to cover something that he himself has been told by the EFL to do.