Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Re: Shrimps Trust Emergency Meeting

Postby Morecambe Jack » Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:44 am

Zip It Shrimpy wrote:Tubshrimp mentions that Jason was willing to sell for £5million. I think I heard somewhere it was as much as £20million but I could also believe Tubshrimp's valuation of under £2million.

Let's assume Jason is still looking for £5million for his 80% shareholding, that values the club at £6million so each 1% would cost the Trust £60,000 to buy.

Someone said that the co-Chairmen and other Board members have about 3% so to get a seat on the Board won't cost much when shared amongst some willing Trust members.

I'd recommend using a fractional share model amongst fans to buy fractions of a share in units of £10 each recorded so the fans can sell on their fractions if they need their cash back. I'd be surprised if we can't raise 1% to buy off Jason.

Jason doesn't need 80% shareholding so could be happy to offload a few percent at a favourable rate. He just needs 51% to offer to a potential new owner.

The Trust could have a market stall style of tent near the ticket office on match days to interact with fans and sell fractional shares at £10 each. When there's enough cash collected buy another half or one percent from Jason and so on.

There's a lot of ifs and buts here but this could be the outline of a working model to get the club into fan ownership.

Please critique if you've got experience in this model. Supporters Trust - if this makes sense, please discuss at your next meeting and report back. I'd be happy to attend your meeting if it'd help.


While I am not engaging with the author of the article, I will respond to this Zippy as it is a balanced and thought-out proposal.

Whether we have 420 shares (as we hold now) or 60,000 shares (or in fact, considerably more than that), it does not change a thing for the Trust. We have some shares, so can attend the AGM etc, but we have no further power. This is even the case for the many former Club Board members who hold much larger shareholdings. Our current position is - why would we put that sort of cash into the company and get absolutely nothing back in return, except for “intent”? The Trust has to be here for all eventualities – that £60,000 could go a lot further in a real crisis situation where the Club might be at risk of going out of existence entirely.

The fractional shares idea sounds great but is unworkable. The Trust can’t offer fractional shares – every member of the Trust is a shareholder in the Trust - £1 of the membership is share capital when you first join. We can offer community shares in addition to the ordinary shares to fundraise for things such as buying share capital of the Club – that is a proven model. However, these shares cannot be sold or transferred so there is no option for fans to get their money back other than from the Trust withdrawing the shares itself. It is something we might explore at some point in the future, but for the reasons outlined above, there is no point in increasing our shareholding at this point in time by fractions of a percent or two (and in that decision, giving money to Jason which will never been seen again). We do not have the administrative capability to go down this route at the moment anyway.

A position on the board has zero correlation with shareholding. We could put all of our funds into share capital and it would not guarantee us a place on the Board. Conversely, if the Club wanted us to have representation on the Board, they could give us it immediately now.

In short, and something I said on the night, was that yes fan ownership would be something that could be pursued in the long term, but it is wholly unachievable right now. We were in a position where the Trust itself was about to fold because there was nobody stepping forward to keep it running. So the idea that “the Trust” could run or own the Football Club is complete fantasy at this moment in time. Unlike the article suggests, I did not dismiss the Exeter model I just pointed out that we do not have the set up to support it – and that is not just cash, that is expertise, people and time!

My final comment is that the Trust is a members-based organisation. The output of the Trust will only reflect what its members are able to put in. Each Trustee is a fully paid-up member, just one that has stepped forward and given their time to run the organisation, alongside their full-time jobs and family lives. I wholly understand why most people do not want to get involved – the article above serves to prove exactly why – because it is a thankless task.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Emergency Meeting

Postby redrobo » Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:02 am

If only there was an AGM to attend.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I thought that was something that had to happen but Jason seems to make his own rules up as he goes along with zero information from him about the sale or for that matter anything of substance.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Emergency Meeting

Postby black morse » Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:19 am

redrobo wrote:If only there was an AGM to attend.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I thought that was something that had to happen but Jason seems to make his own rules up as he goes along with zero information from him about the sale or for that matter anything of substance.


I thought that every limited company has to legally have an AGM at least every 15 months :?
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Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby thedoc » Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:29 am

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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby Westgate Wanderer » Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:33 pm

A hornets nest indeed! I look forward eagerly to the responses from the Trust. Lots of views here but so far so empty... :?:
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby Old Man Kensey » Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:31 pm

Why should the Trust reply to a blog?
If we all started a blog would they have to answer to each and every one of them?

I think the silence speaks volumes. Stop having a go a people giving up their free time.

Anger should be aimed at the current owner not the Trust.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby marky No.1 » Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:54 pm

Spot on OMK, although we all know there wouldn't be a reply.
Tune in to the AGM on 7th September to find out
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby CityShrimp » Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:20 pm

Old Man Kensey wrote:Why should the Trust reply to a blog?
If we all started a blog would they have to answer to each and every one of them?

I think the silence speaks volumes. Stop having a go a people giving up their free time.

Anger should be aimed at the current owner not the Trust.

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to voice their thoughts but it feels like a circus is being whipped up over one persons opinion.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby Keith » Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:34 pm

Taking your Titanic analogy a step further, as the passenger who knew there was an iceberg that would sink the ship if nothing is done, will you volunteer to go on to the bridge, to share your thoughts with the captain, or, just run around the equally powerless passengers, causing upset & distress?

I broadly agree with much of the first blog, and I think the questions & criticisms were broadly legitimate. I didn't discuss the initial blog specifically, because I did feel it was a little too personal. I'm frequently sarcastic, however, in doing so, I (and in this case, you) can't really expect any response that is not defensive or dismissive. Some of it came across as deliberately provocative.

I think Richard's response covered some of the questions that you asked. For example, Exeter's fans' take over was following the club's insolvency. If we were in the same situation, then the Trust would seriously look at a similar move, but currently, owning more shares would simply be giving money to Whittingham, with no additional power. I agree with them that this wouldn't be a good use of our money. Huge difference between buying an insolvent club for £1 and a restructure of some debt, or the current situation for £5 million.

It's clear we're all frustrated by the current situation, but we're definitely stronger together.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby thedoc » Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:15 pm

OMK wrote:
Why should the Trust reply to a blog?
If we all started a blog would they have to answer to each and every one of them?

I think the silence speaks volumes. Stop having a go a people giving up their free time.

Anger should be aimed at the current owner not the Trus
t


Oh gawd - not again... I am a member of the Shrimps Trust. I have been a member of the Shrimps Trust for over five years. I took the trouble to actually attend the Trust Meeting in May (did you?) and I tried to ask a question. I was shouted-down by a member of the Panel, who yelled at me: "This is not a Kangaroo Court!"

I think that a lot of the people who were at the meeting - and most of the people who read the stuff on this site - would have liked to hear proper answers to questions asked from the floor on the night. I wasn't the only person similarly ignored during the evening. So I have tried my best to represent the suggestions that were made last May and re-posed them in my blog. Asking them directly didn't do any good, did it? So why not try a different way?

I don't think the Trust will reply to the questions I posed in my blog - they seem to see this as a power struggle between me and them - which is just bizarre in my view: I'm not suggesting an alternative to them: I just want them to do something. They don't communicate with us. They equally clearly don't like anyone communicating with them: if they did, they would respond, wouldn't they? At least I have tried to get them to explain what they are up to. Should we all just shut up then - even as members - like they do in North Korea?
Last edited by thedoc on Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby thedoc » Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:26 pm

Keith wrote:Taking your Titanic analogy a step further, as the passenger who knew there was an iceberg that would sink the ship if nothing is done, will you volunteer to go on to the bridge, to share your thoughts with the captain, or, just run around the equally powerless passengers, causing upset & distress?


I'm not sure that's entirely fair Keith. I'd like to think - taking the Titanic analogy a bit further, that the very first thing I did was try to go to the Bridge. You can't just walk up there - you've got to be invited, The Bridge on the MV Shrimps Trust is securely protected, however.

Doubt it? You have a go at getting in, then...

Good luck!...
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Re: Shrimps Trust Part 2

Postby Keith » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:34 am

thedoc wrote:
Keith wrote:Taking your Titanic analogy a step further, as the passenger who knew there was an iceberg that would sink the ship if nothing is done, will you volunteer to go on to the bridge, to share your thoughts with the captain, or, just run around the equally powerless passengers, causing upset & distress?


I'm not sure that's entirely fair Keith. I'd like to think - taking the Titanic analogy a bit further, that the very first thing I did was try to go to the Bridge. You can't just walk up there - you've got to be invited, The Bridge on the MV Shrimps Trust is securely protected, however.

Doubt it? You have a go at getting in, then...

Good luck!...


I'd have voted for you if you stood, and I'm sure many others would too.
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Shrimps Trust Controversy.

Postby thedoc » Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:39 am

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Re: Shrimps Trust Controversy.

Postby Cisco Kid » Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:35 am

I’ve been told in no uncertain terms – by people I know and whose opinions I respect – that I come across as a Know-it-All with a patronising attitude and a hugely inflated sense of my own worth.


They are correct.

From someone who doesnt know you, you come across as arrogant, aggressive, self appointed attention seeker with the need to be proved right.

I dont think you are helping matters at all. You are like a dog with a bone and intent on demoralising and destroying the great woork the Shrimps Trust do, for your own satisfaction.

You say you are a volunteer. I dont see that. I see a self appointed mouthpeice who is writing articles that no-one has asked for, for a personal ego trip. I often read them and enjoy them, but I often detect a personal agenda.

The Trust have offered to meet you to discuss your issues, but you prefer to play it out in public to maximise the damage.

For goodness sake, give this self centred crusade up and move on before you demoralise the appointed volunteers on the Shrimps Trust to the point that they are not willing to continue.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Controversy.

Postby Zip It Shrimpy » Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:06 am

I hear what Roger is saying and I support his position which I see as constructive criticism. The Trust could be doing more.

What I'm hearing is a frustration with our Supporters' Trust for not "appearing" to be doing enough when we're faced with an ownership crisis.

I get it that those who've stepped forward are volunteers with limited time to give.

I get it that they can't influence a sale of the club, or buy enough shares to have control.

But I also have been active in voluntary organisations and, as a businessman, I've been very frustrated by my fellow volunteers. My experience (elsewhere) is with others wanting a say but not wanting to do; thinking they don't have to listen to the people they are representing; not being ambitious enough.

Maybe the criticism of the Trust could be avoided by a focus on feedback of what's going on and of genuine listening to what the fans want done and visible action.
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Re: Shrimps Trust Controversy.

Postby black morse » Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:22 am

Zip It Shrimpy wrote:I hear what Roger is saying and I support his position which I see as constructive criticism. The Trust could be doing more.

What I'm hearing is a frustration with our Supporters' Trust for not "appearing" to be doing enough when we're faced with an ownership crisis.

I get it that those who've stepped forward are volunteers with limited time to give.

I get it that they can't influence a sale of the club, or buy enough shares to have control.

But I also have been active in voluntary organisations and, as a businessman, I've been very frustrated by my fellow volunteers. My experience (elsewhere) is with others wanting a say but not wanting to do; thinking they don't have to listen to the people they are representing; not being ambitious enough.

Maybe the criticism of the Trust could be avoided by a focus on feedback of what's going on and of genuine listening to what the fans want done and visible action.


I agree with this. It's always difficult for volunteers (that's why so few people do volunteer) but the Trust should now set out exactly what they know, what they have done and what they are aiming to do about the ownership situation. I appreciate that they met with the board but that was some time ago. I also appreciate that if the Board have an embargo on them discussing the situation it may be impossible to get further information but if that's the case then tell us that it is. At present we are just getting snippets of 'somebody's heard something' but no plain speaking from the Trust officially.

The ownership problem is critical and is the only problem that needs full focus now. Organising coaches etc. are good but are not the priority.
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby Keith » Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:38 am

I've merged the three of 'thedoc's topics in to one, as there is interesting & useful responses to the earlier posts.

Personally, I'd prefer to see Roger stand as a Trustee, and try to influence the direction from within, as I agree with much of what has been said, but not necessarily, how it was said.
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby Old Man Kensey » Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:40 am

To be fair the Trust have done 3 podcasts so far this season.

I think some need to remember that the Trust Committee members are just fans of the club like the rest of us. They aren't privy to anymore details into the running of Morecambe Football Club then any of us.

Our situation is very complicated as on paper we want Jason to sell the club and he is openly trying to sell it. To an outsider it would look like we have very little to complain about, other than the late payment of wages. A statement on this would be good from the CLUB not the TRUST.

The Trust was set up to ensure that if the worse case scenario ever happened, they would be in a position to do something. We are not there (yet?).

I the meantime their message of attending games and putting money through the tills has been very clear.
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby Little Shrimp » Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:10 pm

I'm surprised to see so many comment on an apparent lack of activity from the Trust RE the takeover. Just because there hasn't been a march or banners hung around the ground etc doesn't mean there hasn't been important/effective action.

The Trust's call for a meeting with Sarbjot ended up being received, which was a massive step, and the statement following the meeting is the only properly publicised account from anyone of a meeting with Sarbjot regarding the whole situation. Then a couple of months later, quite a strong statement was released regarding Sarbjot's continued delaying of the move and failure to provide documents.

It might not be the song and dance of a march etc that some people seem keen on, and I guess we can never really know exactly how much of an effect these actions have necessarily had, but Sarbjot has since exited the picture. Isn't that the outcome we all wanted?

And in terms of making Jason sell the club - that's what he's already trying to do! But as we've seen with the whole Sarbjot debacle, it's not just a matter of Jason selling, it's also (and more relevantly) a matter of who Jason sells it to.
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby Keith » Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:12 pm

Little Shrimp wrote:...but Sarbjot has since exited the picture. Isn't that the outcome we all wanted?


Has he? We're all assuming so, but has there been any official statement from anyone?
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby twosheds » Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:35 pm

Keith wrote:
Little Shrimp wrote:...but Sarbjot has since exited the picture. Isn't that the outcome we all wanted?


Has he? We're all assuming so, but has there been any official statement from anyone?

I posted a while ago that Johal's profile on Instagram disappeared overnight...one minute he was happy to show the world he was Morecambe's next big thing...photos and videos of him and his entourage at both home and away games...then whoosh...all gone.

That's not the profile of a budding multimillionaire about to buy a football league club...

https://instagram.com/mrsengh?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ==
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby Little Shrimp » Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:02 pm

Keith wrote:
Little Shrimp wrote:...but Sarbjot has since exited the picture. Isn't that the outcome we all wanted?


Has he? We're all assuming so, but has there been any official statement from anyone?


I think that would be wishful thinking! We're basically asking either Sarbjot to publicly admit that his protracted bid was a load of nonsense, or Jason to admit he's been beaten/made a bit of a fool of over this move he's spent almost a year trying to force through.

Sarbjot has stopped turning up to games, the random media reports about his interest have stopped, and, as pointed out by twosheds, his social media posts about the club have stopped as well.

I can't see us getting an official statement, but personally I think it's very safe to assume his interest has stopped.
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby black morse » Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:09 pm

Little Shrimp wrote:
Keith wrote:
Little Shrimp wrote:...but Sarbjot has since exited the picture. Isn't that the outcome we all wanted?


Has he? We're all assuming so, but has there been any official statement from anyone?


I think that would be wishful thinking! We're basically asking either Sarbjot to publicly admit that his protracted bid was a load of nonsense, or Jason to admit he's been beaten/made a bit of a fool of over this move he's spent almost a year trying to force through.

Sarbjot has stopped turning up to games, the random media reports about his interest have stopped, and, as pointed out by twosheds, his social media posts about the club have stopped as well.

I can't see us getting an official statement, but personally I think it's very safe to assume his interest has stopped.


I think the vast majority of us here would agree that Sarbjot is no longer interested/viable as a new owner. So can we leave him out of this topic from now on and concentrate on the next crucial question....
Is there currently any other interested party or parties? The fans do not know. Next up the scale I assume The Trust doesn't know as I think they would be duty bound to tell the fans. Next....does the Board know?
A while back they said that there were other interested parties. We have heard that they now have an embargo (from Jason) on talking about the situation so the Board may or may not know whether those parties are still interested or not (or whether there are other interested parties). Jason knows but he's not going to say!

After all this time it is little wonder that the fans are frustrated and that frustration is bound to get worse. We aren't asking for names or details all we are asking is.....is there anybody out there?
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby Gone_Shrimping » Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:33 pm

A lot of questions have been answered if you look at the OWS including an update on the ownership of the club.
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Re: Shrimps Trust [Merged Topics]

Postby skeletor » Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:36 pm

A very welcome update from the club
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