Club Statement

[black morse]

“In August, funds were deposited in line with the agreement for a previous failure to pay the club’s wage bill,” an EFL statement read.

“However, on September 4 those funds were used and Whittingham failed to re-deposit the amount despite requests from the league."

Am I reading too much in to the use of the word "used"? Might it be that Whittingham deposited the September salary money in to the account, which appeased the EFL, then left it, so that the money then had to be used for salaries? Did he basically just buy some time?

You could be right Keith but in that case why was the money used for salaries? I thought this club was supposed to be self financing and at that time there would surely be lots of money from season ticket purchases?

[Old Man Kensey]

“In August, funds were deposited in line with the agreement for a previous failure to pay the club’s wage bill,” an EFL statement read.

“However, on September 4 those funds were used and Whittingham failed to re-deposit the amount despite requests from the league."

Am I reading too much in to the use of the word "used"? Might it be that Whittingham deposited the September salary money in to the account, which appeased the EFL, then left it, so that the money then had to be used for salaries? Did he basically just buy some time?

You could be right Keith but in that case why was the money used for salaries? I thought this club was supposed to be self financing and at that time there would surely be lots of money from season ticket purchases?

It is worrying that the EFL Order was broken so early into the season. Doesn't inspire confidence for what shape we will be in come the end of the season.

[Gone_Shrimping]

If anybody thinks the club will benefit from the £108,000 in FA Cup prize money won in the first 2 rounds and the cheque for TV money at Swansea together with our share of 3 away gates , then this latest revelation has just blown that out of the water.

The next few months are going to be crucial for MFC and it's worrying that the owner is a man who has already wrecked a long established Premier rugby union club.

[marky No.1]

Don't suppose we will find out who "used" it.
Either Jason just took some out for a host of reasons
or
The Club had to use it cos it didn't have enough money to pay wages.

Not sure which one is the worst scenario really.

The £108K is basically one months salary

[black morse]

The Club statement refers to the board 'working with Bond Group to avoid cashflow instances'. Again, if we are self financing, why should we have to work with Bond Group to avoid cashflow problems?

Where have I read or heard that the club is self financing?

[glagys]

I would have thought if the EFL wanted the money in a deposit account then its got to be accessed by the club/EFL together, so removing the funds must have been acceptable by the EFL
So maybe it was needed to pay wages???

[redrobo]

Wonder if in the eyes of the EFL we are 'little old Morecambe' and we are being used as a scapegoat to warn other clubs not to get into financial trouble.....or the punishment we are dealing out to MFC will be what you can expect....possibly even greater.

Comparing our problem it sounds very similar to that of Reading's owner who got away with a fine.

Maybe I have total respect for our BoDs and therefore I can't for the life of me see how they can be liable for the apparent actions of that crook Jason....

[Gone_Shrimping]

We know that directors read Shrimps Voices so how about a Fans' Forum to update us with whatever they are able to tell us and field questions.

And let's hold it at the Mazuma Mobile Stadium and not a pub !

[Billy bodger]

Is the clubs BOD’s statement on Dec 4th pivotal to trying to understand what has gone on. The statement says no funds can be taken out without the BOD’s approval, yet the league state money was taken out of the special account on Sept 4th. The league have since that date asked Mr Whittingham to replenish the funds that were taken out of the special account. I take it the EFL has access to the special account and would therefore know who took the money out, so why specifically ask Mr Whittingham to replenish the account?

Also in the BOD’s open letter they say they contacted the owner on the 16th of Sept but after 2.5 months nothing has changed. They also invited potential buyers to contact them to see if it can help in the process. In the clubs statement on Dec 18th it states the Bond Group have instructed specialist sports to defend the club and the owners position at the commission. Has the frosty relationship changed because of the realisation of the owner he is not actually going to get his unrealistic price he want to sell the club for and the best way to end it all is to work with people.

[shrimpsontoast]

Someone who knows more about this than I do please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the EFL has zero power to enforce fines that it imposes against individuals, not being an emanation of the state or otherwise having the force of law behind it. If they fine you and you don’t pay, I assume that all they can really do is impose football related sanctions against the relevant club: points deductions, transfer registration embargoes, expulsion from league, that sort of thing. So they have to work within those limited powers in a way that they think is most likely to ensure compliance with their rules / causes minimum disruption to their competitions. But if rules continue to be broken (it appears to be an EFL rule that you have to honour your contractual commitments to your staff by paying them on time and that you have to comply with agreed decisions relating to earlier rule breaches), ultimately they are likely to focus on protecting the integrity of the competition as a whole rather than the well being of individual member clubs. So they are thinking about whats fair and what isn’t from a completely different viewpoint to you Redrobo and I wouldn’t expect a huge amount of sympathy from them. That’s obviously a pretty unsatisfactory situation but there is not much the EFL can do about it without legislation and that’s why there have been proposals from the politicians to introduce a football regulator that would presumably have some legal powers behind it (so the local MP could actually assist, by lobbying government, but obviously that’s not going to bring any sort of relief any time soon).

[Keith]

I’m pretty sure that the EFL has zero power to enforce fines that it imposes against individuals, not being an emanation of the state or otherwise having the force of law behind it. If they fine you and you don’t pay, I assume that all they can really do is impose football related sanctions against the relevant club: points deductions, transfer registration embargoes, expulsion from league, that sort of thing.

That was my thought entirely. What else can they ultimately do, other than points deductions & expulsions? They can't force Bond Group to sell an asset for less than they think it is worth and [probably] can't enforce unpaid fines against the owner.

When the money was paid into the account, as directed by the EFL, I quietly began to think, perhaps we'd weather the storm, but now, it looks like we're deeper in the brown smelly stuff than ever before.

[black morse]

I’m pretty sure that the EFL has zero power to enforce fines that it imposes against individuals, not being an emanation of the state or otherwise having the force of law behind it. If they fine you and you don’t pay, I assume that all they can really do is impose football related sanctions against the relevant club: points deductions, transfer registration embargoes, expulsion from league, that sort of thing.

That was my thought entirely. What else can they ultimately do, other than points deductions & expulsions? They can't force Bond Group to sell an asset for less than they think it is worth and [probably] can't enforce unpaid fines against the owner.

[b]When the money was paid into the account, as directed by the EFL, I quietly began to think, perhaps we'd weather the storm, but now, it looks like we're deeper in the brown smelly stuff than ever before.

[/b

So did I. I guess we all wanted to believe it When we were told that Jason couldn't take money out of the club without the board's go ahead we weren't told the 'standby money' had already been 'used'.

[Old Man Kensey]

If Whittingham can't get the price he wants would administration or even liquidation be of benefit to him?

No point hoping he has some sort of change of heart, but how would he benefit from either of those situations? What would be in it for him?

[redrobo]

I wonder how many other clubs have and will fail to pay their staff on time due to circumstances sometimes out of their control

I still feel that the EFL want to use our club as an example to others not to pay staff late although the last time we had to do it was only 2 days late which to my way of thinking is very petty....but as I previously suggested we are 'little old morecambe' and we are being use as an example by the EFL to warn other clubs that they will suffer a similar fate if they ( or their owners) fail to meet their commitments on time.

[Old Man Kensey]

I wonder how many other clubs have and will fail to pay their staff on time due to circumstances sometimes out of their control

I still feel that the EFL want to use our club as an example to others not to pay staff late although the last time we had to do it was only 2 days late which to my way of thinking is very petty....but as I previously suggested we are 'little old morecambe' and we are being use as an example by the EFL to warn other clubs that they will suffer a similar fate if they ( or their owners) fail to meet their commitments on time.

The EFL warned us what would happen if we didn't have the funds in the account. Nothing to do with us being 'Little Old Morecambe', just a case of someone breaching the order.

[Seasider9601]

it was only 2 days late which to my way of thinking is very petty.

Not petty to the players and staff if they're paid 2 days late.

It's an issue. A major, major issue.

[KenH]

I wonder how many other clubs have and will fail to pay their staff on time due to circumstances sometimes out of their control

I still feel that the EFL want to use our club as an example to others not to pay staff late although the last time we had to do it was only 2 days late which to my way of thinking is very petty....but as I previously suggested we are 'little old morecambe' and we are being use as an example by the EFL to warn other clubs that they will suffer a similar fate if they ( or their owners) fail to meet their commitments on time.

It's certainly not "petty" to the staff who may have had standing orders and direct debits bounced due to lack of funds, who may have incurred punitive bank charges and interest for an unauthorised overdraft, whose credit rating may have been impacted, etc. Businesses (which is what the club is) are contractually bound to pay their staff on time - it's probably the most important thing the directors of any business have to ensure happens on time!

[redrobo]

Sorry if my post offended anybody as it probably has but unintentionally.

I certainly could have chosen my words a dam sight better.....

[Billy bodger]

EFL took a little look at Reading’s owner and find him 20K hope the look at us in the same light
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67763259

I’ve had a Quick Look and it seems Reading had already had a 10 point deduction, where has Morecambe FC has a 3 point held back in abeyance.

This is probably why in Morecambe’s case they are found to have defaulted on the agreement in place with the EFL and so the club faces a charge. Mr Whittingham facing two personal charges for possibly taking money out of the special account and definitively for not replenishing the account when asked by the EFL.

If Morecambe FC found guilty I would think the 3 point deduction will be applied.

If it was Mr Whittingham who took out the money and did not replace it what can the BOD’s do, especially when at that time the relationship was, to put it politely strained. Would it be fare on Morecambe FC if the fault was all Mr Whittingham’s?

If the club’s executives and BOD’s were involved in withdrawing the money the charge will be hard to defend.

[Zip It Shrimpy]

I'm fuming.
We were misled at the Shrimps Trust AGM on 7th September.
I specifically asked at the AGM and was told the 125% of monthly wages was held in a separate account which couldn't be touched until the end of the season at which point it would be released back to the club.
Rod Taylor and Ben Sadler were there and must have known the account had been raided just 3 days before on 4th September.

I'm also fuming because the Trust poo-pooed starting a fund to acquire the club should we go into administration. It feels like we are leaving it too late to act if we need to raise serious cash from fans.

[black morse]

I'm fuming.
We were misled at the Shrimps Trust AGM on 7th September.
I specifically asked at the AGM and was told the 125% of monthly wages was held in a separate account which couldn't be touched until the end of the season at which point it would be released back to the club.
Rod Taylor and Ben Sadler were there and must have known the account had been raided just 3 days before on 4th September.

I'm also fuming because the Trust poo-pooed starting a fund to acquire the club should we go into administration. It feels like we are leaving it too late to act if we need to raise serious cash from fans.

Did they know the account had been raided? I doubt whether the account is checked every day. It all hinges on whether Jason could have withdrawn the money from this account without the Board knowing.
If, as you remember, it was said the money "couldn't be touched until the end of the season" what was the
point in it being there at all. It was there in case it was needed to pay wages. The point is was it used for that purpose or for something else.

[redrobo]

I'm somewhat confused about this EFL Account in as much who placed the money into the account in the first place

Was it Jason....
Was it our BoDs using money provided by Jason to place into the account....
Was it our BoDs acting alone....

Who had access to the account....

To gain access did it need just the one signature ie Jason....or a member (s) of the BoD.....or Jason and the BoDs....

I'd like to believe that it was Jason in all cases BUT will we ever know...

I'm also surprised that the EFL allowed access to the account without their permission as the account was lodged with them.

The other thing that I find annoying and of concern is the way that the Media in particular Radio Lancashire and BBC North West Tonight have reported the issue as both suggest that it is our club at fault when it may have been Jason who withdrew the money and NOT our BoDs.

I just hope that our BoDs are able to be independently represented by a BoDs appointed legal eagle and NOT have to rely on that appointed by Jason who will have briefed his legal team with the bias of any defense or blame directed at our Board who I want to believe are innocent of any wrong doing.

[Billy bodger]

A club statement on 25th Aug, out lines the previously applied sanctions against the club for non payment of wages in March. It clearly states Jason has to put in 125% of wages in a separate account, only to be used if there is a non payment again.

It also clearly state’s wages were once again paid on time in August. Reaffirming the club has satisfied the EFL’s requirement on the deposit account.

We have since learnt on Sept 4th there was a withdrawl, we at this point don’t know who made that withdrawl. The clubs BOD’s say have since stated in a further Club statement, funds cannot be taken out without their approval.

We know the EFL asked Mr Whittingham to replenish the funds and they have indicated the funds taken out have not been re-deposited.

This has led to the charges against the club and Mr Whittingham.

Wages are paid at the end of the month so why was money taken out on the 4th Sept if the Aug wages were paid on time. The agreement between MFC, Mr Whittingham and the EFL states the funds in the special account can be used if there is a failure to pay the wages, but the wages were paid.

It is clear it’s up to Jason to deposit the 125% into that account so that’s why one of the charges is against him.

Where he gets that money from! Now that’s not forth coming is it?

[redrobo]

A club statement on 25th Aug, out lines the previously applied sanctions against the club for non payment of wages in March. It clearly states Jason has to put in 125% of wages in a separate account, only to be used if there is a non payment again.

It also clearly state’s wages were once again paid on time in August. Reaffirming the club has satisfied the EFL’s requirement on the deposit account.

We have since learnt on Sept 4th there was a withdrawl, we at this point don’t know who made that withdrawl. The clubs BOD’s say have since stated in a further Club statement, funds cannot be taken out without their approval.

We know the EFL asked Mr Whittingham to replenish the funds and they have indicated the funds taken out have not been re-deposited.

This has led to the charges against the club and Mr Whittingham.

Wages are paid at the end of the month so why was money taken out on the 4th Sept if the Aug wages were paid on time. The agreement between MFC, Mr Whittingham and the EFL states the funds in the special account can be used if there is a failure to pay the wages, but the wages were paid.

It is clear it’s up to Jason to deposit the 125% into that account so that’s why one of the charges is against him.

Where he gets that money from! Now that’s not forth coming is it?

However the EFL Account is NOT classed in my way of thinking as a club account so therefore any withdrawal does not in my view require the Boards approval, therefore it would need only the signature of Jason to withdraw any monies as it is he who I assume deposited the money in the EFL Account originally...

All very confusing and until we get some clarity as to who withdraw the money confusion will reign

[Billy bodger]

Redrobo wrote;
“However the EFL Account is NOT classed in my way of thinking as a club account so therefore any withdrawal does not in my view require the Boards approval, therefore it would need only the signature of Jason to withdraw any monies as it is he who I assume deposited the money in the EFL Account originally...

All very confusing and until we get some clarity as to who withdraw the money confusion will reign”

Well you’re right about it being all very confusing, the charges made by the EFL are not particularly clear for those outside of the top echelon's of the club and Jason.

Thou it can be taken to point all to Jason, is it? I wish it was clearer who made the withdrawal.

Are you also right and the special account is not counted as a club account? So the board of directors would not have to sign it off?

If you are right, the club might escape sanctions like Reading FC did, just wish the charge against the club was more enlightening.

Very confusing EFL, very confusing.