Points deduction

[Billy bodger]

Would stopping the game next week force John's hand?
If the game cannot finish would that aid the administration process.

Desperate times and all that?

If your like me the demonstration will be over before I get over the hoardings, I definitely would not get away from the stewards, chasing around the pitch at my age! How about you? Spring over the wall and sprint around the pitch.

What’s with this getting the Club into administration? Why would a fan want that? You do understand the Club would be hit with a ten point deduction, how on earth is that helping the situation it’s just putting more rubbish on top of the rubbish we have to deal with.

Please come up with something constructive that will help the Club.

[Keith]

What’s with this getting the Club into administration? Why would a fan want that? You do understand the Club would be hit with a ten point deduction, how on earth is that helping the situation it’s just putting more rubbish on top of the rubbish we have to deal with.

My understanding of administration is that an administrator would be working to raise as much money from a sale, to cover debtors, with HMRC being top of the pile. They would be looking to sell the club at a sensible, realistic price, which presumably, would mean the reputedly interested parties would be back on the scene. We'd need to reach around 60 points to stay up, but the shambolic ownership would be resolved.

I'm happy for someone who knows more about the process to explain it better if I've got it wrong, or too simplistic?

[marky No.1]

Big issue with administrators is what they charge to administrate.
The PMG fiasco racked up tons of debt at hundreds of pounds per hour for their staff.
Bond apparently made an offer saying it was useless to anyone else cos they wouldn't have access.. Somehow Mr. Fury managed it??

Original owners often set up another company to buy the remnants on the cheap.
A Rugby Clubs car park springs to mind

[Keith]

Big issue with administrators is what they charge to administrate.

Wouldn't it be a case of A+B+C=D

A=HMRC (for example)
B=Administrator fees
C=Shared between other debtors

D=What new owner pays

I wouldn't want to be a small supplier to the club, who would ultimately be the loser, but otherwise, wouldn't this basically sell Whittingham's asset, no matter what he wanted to do? Club gets a 10 point deduction but starts the season with a new owner and no debt?

[redrobo]

Seems to me that the EFL have been somewhat harsh on our club regarding the non payment of wages on the 28 March as in its own submission they used the phrase ON or AROUND the 28th. The issue was sorted on the 30th....only a max of 48 hours late which is a far cry from the implication that it was far too late.

And yet the big guns in football can get away with zero penalties despite extensive evidence of failing to abide by financial rules set out in black and white by the governing bodies.

Punish those with little or no powers...but let those with the power escape any form of punishment.....or at best delay any judgement for month after month.

[Billy bodger]

Seems to me that the EFL have been somewhat harsh on our club regarding the non payment of wages on the 28 March as in its own submission they used the phrase ON or AROUND the 28th. The issue was sorted on the 30th....only a max of 48 hours late which is a far cry from the implication that it was far too late.

And yet the big guns in football can get away with zero penalties despite extensive evidence of failing to abide by financial rules set out in black and white by the governing bodies.

Punish those with little or no powers...but let those with the power escape any form of punishment.....or at best delay any judgement for month after month.

Unfortunately the Premiership is not marshalled by the EFL. The Premiership will guard what makes it the golden goose at the cost of the gosling that wants to crash the regimental regime that keeps the cream at the top.

[marky No.1]

Big issue with administrators is what they charge to administrate.

Wouldn't it be a case of A+B+C=D

A=HMRC (for example)
B=Administrator fees
C=Shared between other debtors

D=What new owner pays

I wouldn't want to be a small supplier to the club, who would ultimately be the loser, but otherwise, wouldn't this basically sell Whittingham's asset, no matter what he wanted to do? Club gets a 10 point deduction but starts the season with a new owner and no debt?

Can't be bothered looking through the expenses sheet again, but pretty sure it didn't stop at "D'), more like S.
Loads of added costs including insurance , security travel expenses, postage, cups of coffee, electric, phone bills etc.
Valuers fees were £4000
Legal fees 6,000
Insurance 1,800
Security 22,000
Tax advice 500
Officeholder fees (usually a percentage of the value) 100,000
Agents fees 3,000
Disbursements 3,500

Plus lots of other stuff, so the asset devalued by well over half

[Keith]

Can't be bothered looking through the expenses sheet again, but pretty sure it didn't stop at "D'), more like S.
Loads of added costs including insurance , security travel expenses, postage, cups of coffee, electric, phone bills etc.


Plus lots of other stuff, so the asset devalued by well over half

The point being, the price paid isn't increased, but the final amount left for Whittingham decreases.

[Westgate Wanderer]

Can't be bothered looking through the expenses sheet again, but pretty sure it didn't stop at "D'), more like S.
Loads of added costs including insurance , security travel expenses, postage, cups of coffee, electric, phone bills etc.


Plus lots of other stuff, so the asset devalued by well over half

The point being, the price paid isn't increased, but the final amount left for Whittingham decreases.

as would our points

[marky No.1]

If we set off on -12, I could only see us in the National League.
On recent form it would take us 11 games to get to zero, 15 games with the points deduction!

[Scouseport_Shrimp]

Like most things in sport, and life in general, it's all hypothetical until the the finishing-line has been passed.

[Old Man Kensey]

We've been far too passive as a fan base so far.
We need to become a real headache for Jason.

[fulwoodshrimp]

A follow up to the march could be a sit in at the ground after a home game. We could alert National and local media about our proposed actions and sit tight! Any thoughts?

[Billy bodger]

We've been far too passive as a fan base so far.
We need to become a real headache for Jason.

Your not contemplating moving next door?

[Billy bodger]

I posted this on another topic, but I think it now fits on here, after the last few posts.

Now we know we are a League two team will Jason drop his price? The Bond group put the club up for sale while we were a League one team. He cannot expect the same amount. The downside is anyone wanting to buy will probably not be willing to pay what ever the fantasy price Jason comes up with.

What can we do well the BOD’s could resign, if they were at the end of their tether in Oct/Nov, they really must be now on the cusp??

Will it do any good? Well for them it might be an overwhelming relief and an end to being taken as (I don’t mean this bad in any way, it’s how I think Jason is using them. For me where would we be without them?) useful idiots. You can say then why suggest it?

It might set of a chain of reactions good and also bad, the main difference one Jason lowers his price to a level someone takes over and reappoints the old BOD’s. For me that’s a better option before we end up in administration and a direct 10 point penalty?

[Keith]

We've been far too passive as a fan base so far.
We need to become a real headache for Jason.

How?

[vvm]

The fans were talked out of holding a decent protest to that of a support walk, poor and all seems to have been a complete waste of time.

The Wrexham game was a perfect opportunity to properly protest and have our name heard, making it on local news just doesn't do it, merely pointless IMO

Best thing to have happened this week is Ged and Rawson saying it as it is in the media, that's what us fans should have done at the Wrexham game and not let ourselves be convinced to turn it in to a bloody fun day!!!!

What would you suggest should have been done instead, and what outcome would it have achieved? What do you think will actually be achieved by Rawson speaking out?

The Club has been sleep walking for a while.

The BOD are pacifying the fans, trying to keep things from boiling over.

The club needs to be sold ASAP, I'm not sure that Jason actually wants out and i get the feeling we are his only asset left after his Sh1t show at Worcester.

This is our club and we are letting this clown put us at risk

On this, I agree, 100%. But with an owner who appears to be completely out of touch with reality, we're screwed, as he can't be forced to sell. I am slowly coming to the conclusion that going into administration is the only way forward for the club. It may be that HMRC may force his hand. Or, if they are actually enforceable, the EFL taking him to court for the fines that they have imposed, which depending on his available cash, may force him under.

If he's asking for £10,000,000 he'll never sell the club.
If he's asking for £1 (as Ken Bates bought Chelsea for) then he'd sell it today.

The difficulty is finding an amount that he's willing to accept, that someone else is willing to pay. I wonder if, ultimately, heading for administration, where he'd get nothing, and potentially still end up with debt, and no asset, force him to accept something that simply covers his debts?

I just can't understand Jason's thinking. He's not stupid, he's clearly a semi successful businessman or he wouldn't own the club in the first place. Seems clear to us that the longer he stalls on selling, the more his asset goes down in value, surely going into administration can't be a positive for him either? So what's his game?

[Billy bodger]

Bankruptcy?

[Keith]

I just can't understand Jason's thinking.

So what's his game?

That's the key issue for us. If we can't work out what his intentions are, how do we successfully protest against him?