O/T - The Spending Cuts!

[Plain Peter]

They'll affect us all.
So what do we think?
I'll start.
Apparently some beancounters estimate that if a 0.5% levy was placed on every transaction made in the City, the entire UK deficit would be wiped out in 12 months.
So that'd be a good start, and might get Bob Crow and his cronies to stand-down from crippling the country over the next few months.

[Sufcinpeace]

Problem is when the Bankers are still getting their bonus it makes the little man very envious.
I work in the City and saw the time where I saw huge bonuses being paid out to top people and yet the workers underneath who drive the company were rewarded with a bottle of champagne ( Was nice champer though I admit)

With prices going up,wages staying static or in some cases being reduced in order to save jobs,I can understand the frustrations,though I agree Bob Crow is a throw back to the dark days,but then it was easier to walk out of one job into another

Whatever the solution for the recovery I hope it sooner rather than later

[P/T Indie]

I agree there is a whole lot of rubbish that needs cutting out there and so far they have made a good start.
I am convinced that Labour went on a mega spending spree in the last 6 months especially within the NHS where they started recruiting staff for fun.

However I don't understand how by making everyone unemployed in the public sector is going to help as the number of unemployed is going to go through the roof.

and it's ok saying everyone needs to go and find a job but where are all these jobs going to come from as there isn't any at the moment as it is never mind when 100,000's are made redundant.

I still feel a lot of places find it easy not to replace staff to save money instead of looking at their working practices and seeing if they can save money from working in a better way.

[Lloydie]

I am convinced that Labour went on a mega spending spree in the last 6 months especially within the NHS where they started recruiting staff for fun.

thanks for that, sure its me who is the kiss of death! First reebok and now the NHS PCT I've seen go in the same building! Hopefully I can find a job myself or through the agency before I'm redudant in April

[ezz]

If you manage to become rududant anytime in your life i'll find you a job myself#

[wonder shrimp]

the worry for me is that dealing with the deficit has been conflated (by the condems and the rightwing press) with spending cuts.

the ratio of cuts to tax rises (the other way of dealing with a deficit) is 77/23, the most skewed ratio of all recoveries.

i'm not suggesting that all the deficit could be dealt with through tax rises, but a fairer portion could, and not through a rise in vat either!

a lot of public spending is necessary investment, and plenty of private sector jobs depend on the public sector (e.g. construction, suppliers). it's easy for millionaires who don't send their kids to state schools, their sick to NHS hospitals, who don't use public transport, or rely on help from the state to call all public sector expenditure a waste, but it simply isn't true for the 95% of the rest of the country.

oh and only a minority voted for these cuts anyway, at the time of the election the libdems were dead against them (in public at least!).

[durhamshrimp]

They'll affect us all.
So what do we think?
I'll start.
Apparently some beancounters estimate that if a 0.5% levy was placed on every transaction made in the City, the entire UK deficit would be wiped out in 12 months.
So that'd be a good start, and might get Bob Crow and his cronies to stand-down from crippling the country over the next few months.

Actually agree with this.

I don't really want to go on strike but it seems like I'll have to if Cameron and his cronies don't stand-down from crippling the country over the next few years.

[Ntini]

I work in the third sector (also called voluntary/charities sector) for a social enterprise. Unfortunately I've lost my contract due to these cuts. The people who fund my work won't pay out another penny until they find out what the government will/won't spend their money on. Unfortunately it means that their uncertainty is passed on to the people they fund. Hopefully something good will come of it in the form of a different job within the same organisation.

Worrying times...

[shrimper]

Very.

And it'll all kick off again.

Probably not yet - it usually happens when everyone gets hot and bothered and out on the streets.

So, probably about June next year, starting in Liverpool and Manchester then spreading.

[George Dawes]

surly if we leave the EU then tell all the EU workers over here now there not allowed to work here in the UK under legal reasons and are not entitled to benefits

the jobs left would solve high unemployment and in return would have money flowing through people's pockets(economy) and get this country stood back on its own two feet again

[Keith]

surly if we leave the EU then tell all the EU workers over here now there not allowed to work here under legal reasons and are not entitled to benefits

the jobs left would solve high unemployment and in return would have money flowing through people's pockets(economy) and get this country stood back on its own two feet again

And along with the European workers would go European jobs.

For example Nissan in Sunderland is the biggest car plant in the UK and the most productive in Europe. It's owned by Nissan Europe. If we weren't in the EU and therefore have free trade agreements, why would they stay here? Obviously they wouldn't. What little manufacturing is left in the UK would either have a UK market or no market at all. Leaving the EU would cause the recession to deepen and slow down the recovery.

The City of London, as much as we all hate the greed of (top) bankers and the fact that they steamrollered in to the crisis for individual fortune rather than a concern for the economy, is the only real way out of the British end of the recession. The wealth brought in to the UK economy is massive. That 0.5% levy could pay the deficit in 12 months demonstrates the size of that aspect of the economy. But that 0.5% levy would seriously damage the competitive position, why use London instead of Frankfurt or New York? The UK revival is so dependent upon The City that nothing can be done that may upset it, including doing anything more than calling for 'restraint' when it comes to bonuses. When you have a tiger by the tail, you hold on tight!

[Christies Child]

They'll affect us all.
So what do we think?
I'll start.
Apparently some beancounters estimate that if a 0.5% levy was placed on every transaction made in the City, the entire UK deficit would be wiped out in 12 months.
So that'd be a good start, and might get Bob Crow and his cronies to stand-down from crippling the country over the next few months.

Actually agree with this.

I don't really want to go on strike but it seems like I'll have to if Cameron and his cronies don't stand-down from crippling the country over the next few years.

Wonder if you would be doing the same if it was Labour's spending cuts?

[George Dawes]

i see it as long as it is broad, there's still a lot more we could be making ourselves

i was recently doing some work in Cumbria at the sportswear factory New Balance and unlike Reebok they do actually make the trainers and stuff in Cumbria and when i was speaking to one of the managers he was telling us it's just as cheap to make stuff here, although we have tight targets and deadlines to meet, it can be done(there were on TV for it's success)

Reebok get there stuff made abroad and all they do is just then just put there stamp and a union jack on giving people the impression there buying British(there not)


and it is reported we pay £40million a day for EU membership, how accurate that is i dont know, but i do know there working class man doesn't benefit from it, hence no referendum because politicians know exactly what the outcome of the voting would be

[Plain Peter]

Wonder if you would be doing the same if it was Labour's spending cuts?

[bigreddog]

The £40 million a day has never been put into context by UKIP, which is to be expected, read the link below, it's worth it just to understand how complicated that gross figure is.

http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/05/ukips-britain-paying-the-eu-40-million-a-day-claim-vs-the-real-costs-of-uk-eu-membership/

[durhamshrimp]

Not really anything to do with the discussion at all, but at the bottom of this picture you can see some of the planes at the North East Aircraft Museum. Well worth a visit, they have an Avro Vulcan (which can be seen on the picture furthest left).

[durhamshrimp]

They'll affect us all.
So what do we think?
I'll start.
Apparently some beancounters estimate that if a 0.5% levy was placed on every transaction made in the City, the entire UK deficit would be wiped out in 12 months.
So that'd be a good start, and might get Bob Crow and his cronies to stand-down from crippling the country over the next few months.

Actually agree with this.

I don't really want to go on strike but it seems like I'll have to if Cameron and his cronies don't stand-down from crippling the country over the next few years.

Wonder if you would be doing the same if it was Labour's spending cuts?

As i'll likely be losing my job(s) anyway. Yes.

[Andy]

Keith wrote:



Not really anything to do with the discussion at all, but at the bottom of this picture you can see some of the planes at the North East Aircraft Museum. Well worth a visit, they have an Avro Vulcan (which can be seen on the picture furthest left).

Not really anything to do with the discussion at all, but at the bottom of this picture you can see some of the planes at the North East Aircraft Museum. Well worth a visit, they have an Avro Vulcan (which can be seen on the picture furthest left).

Saw the Vulcan fly (on I think its last flight) at Manston, what a sight and sound !

[Plain Peter]

A recent feature in Private Eye revealed how Vodaphone have effectively been let off without paying an estimated £6bn in tax, that it avoided using various loopholes and sleight of hand.

[The Marksman]

However I don't understand how by making everyone unemployed in the public sector is going to help as the number of unemployed is going to go through the roof.

OK, take a fairly low-to-middle grade 35-year-old civil servant earning £20k a year.
Pays back ~35% of that in various taxes = £13k cost in total.
Fire him - that's £13k saved immediately.

JSA is £60.50 p/w = £3146.
Council tax benefit = ~£1300 (based on what my council tax is, I have no experience of paying council tax at any other address)
Housing benefit (based on £400 pcm) = £4800
Total = £9246. (I've probably missed some out as well)

So it saves £3754 per year for this guy, which is actually surprising me quite a lot - I thought it would save a lot more. So basically, making anyone redundant who earns less than probably ~16k a year is counter-productive.

Which makes me think, that in addition to getting rid of people we'd better be reducing benefits at the same time if we really want this defecit cut. It'll be painful but the quicker we do it the shorter the pain will last. In the long term, less national debt -> less government spending (assuming they don't fritter all the gains away) -> lower taxes -> better growth -> better standard of living for all.

[Keith]

OK, take a fairly low-to-middle grade 35-year-old civil servant earning £20k a year.

But you are only looking at his wage. His Superannuation will be another £5k per annum. Employers NI contribution adds another couple of grand. You can look towards at least 10% for covering sickness, holidays etc so your £20k civil servant actually costs the organisation over £30k per year. So getting rid of the £20k guy will save about £14,000.

Of course the tough one is working out how many times that £14k would be spent, the corner shop owner who then spends the money that would be spent there, the pub owner who takes less etc... and 20% of the money spent would come to government in the form of VAT. The redundant guy may have to downsize or sell his house which has a negative impact...

No easy answers either way.

[durhamshrimp]

OK, take a fairly low-to-middle grade 35-year-old civil servant earning £20k a year.

But you are only looking at his wage. His Superannuation will be another £5k per annum. Employers NI contribution adds another couple of grand. You can look towards at least 10% for covering sickness, holidays etc so your £20k civil servant actually costs the organisation over £30k per year. So getting rid of the £20k guy will save about £14,000.

Of course the tough one is working out how many times that £14k would be spent, the corner shop owner who then spends the money that would be spent there, the pub owner who takes less etc... and 20% of the money spent would come to government in the form of VAT. The redundant guy may have to downsize or sell his house which has a negative impact...

No easy answers either way.

The passports that don't get issued, the bins that don't get collected etc etc. These 'savings' assume that the people who will be sacked aren't actually doing anything of value.

[Posh]

A recent feature in Private Eye revealed how Vodaphone have effectively been let off without paying an estimated £6bn in tax, that it avoided using various loopholes and sleight of hand.

That's not quite correct. Vodafone were being chased by HMRC for £6 billion in tax as part of the acquisition of Mannesman. Rather than take the case to court HMRC 'settled' for just over £500 million. Thus denying UK government of £5.5 billion, equivalent to all the cuts in 2010.

Meanwhile India, in exactly the same situation, fought and won a case for £2 billion in tax.

This is a massive scandal that probably won't break the surface of mainstream news.

[Plain Peter]

Meanwhile India, in exactly the same situation, fought and won a case for £2 billion in tax.

India - that's a laugh!
An economy growing at nearly 10% a year, with a massive defence budget.
Yet they are the biggest recipient of UK Foreign Development Aid!!
Sucks

[trojan]

However I don't understand how by making everyone unemployed in the public sector is going to help as the number of unemployed is going to go through the roof.

OK, take a fairly low-to-middle grade 35-year-old civil servant earning £20k a year.
Pays back ~35% of that in various taxes = £13k cost in total.
Fire him - that's £13k saved immediately.

JSA is £60.50 p/w = £3146.
Council tax benefit = ~£1300 (based on what my council tax is, I have no experience of paying council tax at any other address)
Housing benefit (based on £400 pcm) = £4800
Total = £9246. (I've probably missed some out as well)

So it saves £3754 per year for this guy, which is actually surprising me quite a lot - I thought it would save a lot more. So basically, making anyone redundant who earns less than probably ~16k a year is counter-productive.

Which makes me think, that in addition to getting rid of people we'd better be reducing benefits at the same time if we really want this defecit cut. It'll be painful but the quicker we do it the shorter the pain will last. In the long term, less national debt -> less government spending (assuming they don't fritter all the gains away) -> lower taxes -> better growth -> better standard of living for all.

I wish I was on that much benefits. The real world figures are :
JSA £3403.40 p/a
Council tax £1068 p/a
Housing benefit £1909.44 p/a